Calzaghe vs Warren

[SteveDow]

I should probably add that Calzaghe would not be entitled to go after the personal assets of Warren to recover the money unless Warren had signed a guarantee that if Sports Network were to go bust he would personally cover the liability to Calzaghe. I'm certain Warren would not have done this.

I know you work for the law but I don't think you're right. He's technically not going after Warren for the money personally. Calzaghe has gotten around that. By taking Warren to court, because Calzaghe thinks Warren moved assets to deliberately put SNL into liquidation. In order for Calzaghe not to be paid. If Warren is found guilty of the crime Calzaghe is accusing him of. Then maybe Calzaghe may reclaim the money from Warren for illegally protecting his assets of his former company. He's not directly taking Warren to court for the money.

What you stated is protection by the law to people who have tried to make a business and failed. It stops failed business men/women being taken to court and losing processions such and houses and cars etc.

Exodus: I don't mean to patronise you here but I think you have completely misunderstood what I have explained and I'm finding it a bit difficult to follow your sentences. Of course Calzaghe is not going after Warren for the money personally because he is not legally allowed to as I explained in very clear language above. When you are the director of a company the liability you have under contracts made by that company is limited to the value of your shares. Unless you sign a guarantee your own personal assets cannot be at risk. This is the whole point of setting up a company. Obviously Calzaghe is not going after Warren's personal assets, I think you misread my post.

[SteveDow]

If this case carries on the procedure is long and expensive and let's be honest it's one Calzaghe can ill afford..This could be dragged through court after court before it's finally resolved, Let's be honest it makes no difference what people write on here as NO ONE knows the actual facts and all were doing is guessing exactly what is owed and what the full circumstances of it all are...

Well those involved in the first court case knew the facts Tony and ruled in Calzaghe's favour. What does that tell you?

It tells me that no one won mate cos there in another court room arguing over the same amount of money, This will go on and on and on.. There'll be no end to it.. Calzaghe has't got the funds for a process that could take over a briefs carreer.. It'll be drawn out too long and he'll end up broke..

Hi Tony. The way the legal process normally works is that if Calzaghe wins the case Warren would be liable to pay Calzaghes costs and therefore he wouldn't actually incur any loss of money at all. As it has already been ruled in the High Court that Calzaghe was entitled to payment, there is a high probability that Calzaghe will win the subsequent cases and thus will not end up paying any legal fees. I'm sure he has been well advised of this by his lawyers.

[BARNEYKX]

GO FOR IT JOE OUT OF WAREEN

[Counter-puncher]

So Kessler had a fractured hand and missed his final two weeks of sparring, going into Calzaghe's back yard.

Sure, 'it made no difference' to his performance.

I've got my own sources, whom sparred him in the weeks beforehand. And their take on the injury is radically worse than the one Kessler is sticking to out of dignity.

Gomez, here's the thing though

bearing in mind Calzaghe's problems, you might say all Kessler's hand problems were doing was giving them a level playing field in that fight

the way you go on anyone would think Kessler was facing the notorious 'Joe Calzaghe, HANDS OF STONE, ALL THOSE WHO FEEL THE FORCE OF HIS INDESTRUCTABLE HANDS QUAKE AND FALL'. you're talking about, in Joe, someone who hadn't thrown a proper power shot with his left hand in about 6 years

looking at the way Kessler threw his right hand, vs the way Calzaghe threw his left hand, in that fight, if anything Kessler even with a damaged hand (that we know from your impeccable sources, hmmm darren Barker maybe haha) still threw it harder more correctly and with more conviction than Joe ever threw his left in there.

so well done and thank you for pointing out yet another reason that the Kessler win was a great performance from Joe.

[Pat Butcher]

I should probably add that Calzaghe would not be entitled to go after the personal assets of Warren to recover the money unless Warren had signed a guarantee that if Sports Network were to go bust he would personally cover the liability to Calzaghe. I'm certain Warren would not have done this.

Steve,
If Calzaghe wins this court case, where will the money come from if they can't go after his personal assets and SN has gone bust? Do they get the money from one of FW's other companies?

[chinny]

SteveDow, thanks for taking the time to explain how the law works here, very interesting.

[Bard of Boxrec]

I should probably add that Calzaghe would not be entitled to go after the personal assets of Warren to recover the money unless Warren had signed a guarantee that if Sports Network were to go bust he would personally cover the liability to Calzaghe. I'm certain Warren would not have done this.

Steve,
If Calzaghe wins this court case, where will the money come from if they can't go after his personal assets and SN has gone bust? Do they get the money from one of FW's other companies?

Yeah, this is what I would like to know too.

[Counter-puncher]

my guess is, if it can be proved that a certain promoter deliberately dispersed company assets to avoid paying Calzaghe or anyone else, then he would forfeit the protection normally afforded under Ltd Co. laws and become personally liable. from what i know ltd co. = no personal liability for the directors UNLESS IT CAN BE PROVED THAT THEY HAVE BEEN OPERATING UNLAWFULLY.

[SteveDow]

I should probably add that Calzaghe would not be entitled to go after the personal assets of Warren to recover the money unless Warren had signed a guarantee that if Sports Network were to go bust he would personally cover the liability to Calzaghe. I'm certain Warren would not have done this.

Steve,
If Calzaghe wins this court case, where will the money come from if they can't go after his personal assets and SN has gone bust? Do they get the money from one of FW's other companies?

Pat: The way it works is that they can't go after Warrens personal assets for a debt he owes under the company banner (i.e: the £1.8m owed to Calzaghe) as the contract is between Calzaghe and Sports Network and not Calzaghe and Warren. However, when it comes to legal costs the usual rule is that the loser in a case like this has to pay the winners costs. These would have to be funded any way Warren could do it and this includes out of his personal expenses. If he tried to suggest that he could not pay the costs then the judge would order a search of his personal assets to check whether or not he did in fact have the funds to pay.

[SteveDow]

my guess is, if it can be proved that a certain promoter deliberately dispersed company assets to avoid paying Calzaghe or anyone else, then he would forfeit the protection normally afforded under Ltd Co. laws and become personally liable. from what i know ltd co. = no personal liability for the directors UNLESS IT CAN BE PROVED THAT THEY HAVE BEEN OPERATING UNLAWFULLY.

You're basically correct in what you say. There are two situations where directors can become personally liable for the debt of a company: wrongful trading and fraudulent trading.

1. Wrongful trading: In simple terms, wrongful trading occurs where the directors of a company continue to trade when they knew or should have realised that there was no reasonable prospect of the company avoiding insolvent liquidation and the company then goes into liquidation. The liquidator would not have to prove that a director was dishonest in acting in the way that they did. This means that the burden of proof is fairly low.

2. Fraudulent trading: This is where a director dishonestly continue to trade when they knew or should have realised that there was no reasonable prospect of the company avoiding insolvent liquidation and the company then goes into liquidation. This is a very high burden of proof.

Normally what will happen is that the creditor who is owed money will accuse the director in question of wrongful trading because, if proved, the result is the same (i.e: the director is personally liable for the debt) but the burden of proof is lower.

[beagleboy]

It tells me that no one won mate cos there in another court room arguing over the same amount of money, This will go on and on and on.. There'll be no end to it.. Calzaghe has't got the funds for a process that could take over a briefs carreer.. It'll be drawn out too long and he'll end up broke..

Calzaghe won that court case. The new case is about fWank folding SN and not paying what he was told to pay.

I agree this could bankrupt Calzaghe if it goes wrong. And the lawyers etc could be the real winners. But what would you expect him, yourself or anybody else to do in the same situation? just write off the £1.8 million(or whatever it was)

If I thought for 1 min this is gonna bankrupt me I'd be out in a shot.. I personally think Calzaghe should do exactly that.. Wouldn't be nice for the likes of him to come back purely for money cos believe me if this drags on then that's exactly what will happen..

Hey Bumber 1
What is the weather like inside that Islington backside you've crawled up ?

[Counter-puncher]

Normally what will happen is that the creditor who is owed money will accuse the director in question of wrongful trading because, if proved, the result is the same (i.e: the director is personally liable for the debt) but the burden of proof is lower.

thanks for that Steve, yes, the creditor's meeting/mudslinging element was what i was thinking of.

as an unrelated example to anyone unfamiliar with this, if a ltd co. goes into liquidation/bankruptcy, but the people who are owed money can prove the directors were still trading when they knew they were technically bankrupt, they get to stick it to the Directors of said company as wrongful trading

[15829]

Calzaghe won that court case. The new case is about fWank folding SN and not paying what he was told to pay.

I agree this could bankrupt Calzaghe if it goes wrong. And the lawyers etc could be the real winners. But what would you expect him, yourself or anybody else to do in the same situation? just write off the £1.8 million(or whatever it was)

If I thought for 1 min this is gonna bankrupt me I'd be out in a shot.. I personally think Calzaghe should do exactly that.. Wouldn't be nice for the likes of him to come back purely for money cos believe me if this drags on then that's exactly what will happen..

Hey Bumber 1
What is the weather like inside that Islington backside you've crawled up ?

what a tool

[Exoddus]

Sorry Steve, I did misread your post. Thanks for clearing that up. One more thing though.

Pat: The way it works is that they can't go after Warrens personal assets for a debt he owes under the company banner (i.e: the £1.8m owed to Calzaghe) as the contract is between Calzaghe and Sports Network and not Calzaghe and Warren. However, when it comes to legal costs the usual rule is that the loser in a case like this has to pay the winners costs. These would have to be funded any way Warren could do it and this includes out of his personal expenses. If he tried to suggest that he could not pay the costs then the judge would order a search of his personal assets to check whether or not he did in fact have the funds to pay.

What if assets are found, and the judge finds allegedly guilty of illegally moving them to his new boxing promotion? Could the assets be sold off? Or would they have to be given back over to SNL? So the administrators would have to distribute the money between all parties that are owed? Hope I've made myself clear.

[DG.]

Sorry Steve, I did misread your post. Thanks for clearing that up. One more thing though.

Pat: The way it works is that they can't go after Warrens personal assets for a debt he owes under the company banner (i.e: the £1.8m owed to Calzaghe) as the contract is between Calzaghe and Sports Network and not Calzaghe and Warren. However, when it comes to legal costs the usual rule is that the loser in a case like this has to pay the winners costs. These would have to be funded any way Warren could do it and this includes out of his personal expenses. If he tried to suggest that he could not pay the costs then the judge would order a search of his personal assets to check whether or not he did in fact have the funds to pay.

What if assets are found, and the judge finds allegedly guilty of illegally moving them to his new boxing promotion? Could the assets be sold off? Or would they have to be given back over to SNL? So the administrators would have to distribute the money between all parties that are owed? Hope I've made myself clear.

As a seperate note - didn't Fwanks contract wth Setanta state that it was Sports Networks fighters who he would bring to their station, but not all fighters were SN fighters - some were promoter by Fwank Warren or the other way round?

Either way, Fwank might be hard to nail down, but I hope they do!

[Bomber 1]

Hey Bumber 1
What is the weather like inside that Islington backside you've crawled up ?

It's fantastic mate, Snug as a bug in a rug.... It's my opinion mate and if you don't like it you know what you can do don'y ya pal..

[teddy007]

Hey Bumber 1
What is the weather like inside that Islington backside you've crawled up ?

It's fantastic mate, Snug as a bug in a rug.... It's my opinion mate and if you don't like it you know what you can do don'y ya pal..

Sorry Tony but I did laugh at "Bumber 1" for the simple fact the guy is a complete pr1ck, but for him to think that up was funny and I bet you think that was funny if it wasn't in that context

[whiskey]

Whatever Joe's reasons for moving on, it wasn't really a sparkling idea. Would anyone Judas a guy who has £1.8m of your money in their pocket / company still ?

Heck that decision is right up there with Strictly Dancing.

[Pat Butcher]

I should probably add that Calzaghe would not be entitled to go after the personal assets of Warren to recover the money unless Warren had signed a guarantee that if Sports Network were to go bust he would personally cover the liability to Calzaghe. I'm certain Warren would not have done this.

Steve,
If Calzaghe wins this court case, where will the money come from if they can't go after his personal assets and SN has gone bust? Do they get the money from one of FW's other companies?

Pat: The way it works is that they can't go after Warrens personal assets for a debt he owes under the company banner (i.e: the £1.8m owed to Calzaghe) as the contract is between Calzaghe and Sports Network and not Calzaghe and Warren. However, when it comes to legal costs the usual rule is that the loser in a case like this has to pay the winners costs. These would have to be funded any way Warren could do it and this includes out of his personal expenses. If he tried to suggest that he could not pay the costs then the judge would order a search of his personal assets to check whether or not he did in fact have the funds to pay.

Cheers

[SteveDow]

Sorry Steve, I did misread your post. Thanks for clearing that up. One more thing though.

Pat: The way it works is that they can't go after Warrens personal assets for a debt he owes under the company banner (i.e: the £1.8m owed to Calzaghe) as the contract is between Calzaghe and Sports Network and not Calzaghe and Warren. However, when it comes to legal costs the usual rule is that the loser in a case like this has to pay the winners costs. These would have to be funded any way Warren could do it and this includes out of his personal expenses. If he tried to suggest that he could not pay the costs then the judge would order a search of his personal assets to check whether or not he did in fact have the funds to pay.

What if assets are found, and the judge finds allegedly guilty of illegally moving them to his new boxing promotion? Could the assets be sold off? Or would they have to be given back over to SNL? So the administrators would have to distribute the money between all parties that are owed? Hope I've made myself clear.

Exodus: I hope I didn't come across a bit rude in my reply to you and thanks for your message. Basically what would happen in this situation is that the assets that have been moved out of SNL would be distributed amongst the creditors that were owed money by SNL at the time SNL went into liquidation. This will be done in accordance with the order of priority I mentioned in an earlier post. This may or may not mean that Calzaghe, as an unsecured creditor, would receive some money. However, if Warren is found to be guilty of wrongful or fraudulant trading then Calzaghe could be paid out of Warrens personal assets. Cheers mate.

[TerribleTerry]

Hey Bumber 1
What is the weather like inside that Islington backside you've crawled up ?

Beagleboy, I get the feeling that you wear a coat and hang out in hallways.....




Am I right?

[coneye]

Whats the bet it ends up settled on the court steps , ending with 50-50

[tonyevs]

Whats the bet it ends up settled on the court steps , ending with 50-50

Very little chance I`d imagine. Calzaghe wants his 1.8mill ... settling for half .. then having to pay his own legal fees. He`d be lucky to have enough money to buy the paper for the train ride home.

[Bomber 1]

Hey Bumber 1
What is the weather like inside that Islington backside you've crawled up ?

It's fantastic mate, Snug as a bug in a rug.... It's my opinion mate and if you don't like it you know what you can do don'y ya pal..

Sorry Tony but I did laugh at "Bumber 1" for the simple fact the guy is a complete pr1ck, but for him to think that up was funny and I bet you think that was funny if it wasn't in that context

Don't be sorry mate, I have the skin of an elephant.. He's entitled tohis opnion BUT I just get the feeling that he doesn't know that my opinion and his count for $h1t.. So Beagleboy you need to keep acting more like jeremy Beadle instead of Beagle..

[Counter-puncher]

funnily enough I can imagine Beagleboy with a deformed clawed hand