Tribute to DG thread - Is the 'British' style beoming extinc

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

arrrrrrrgh!

King DG is moaning about us lot not starting enough threads so I thought I would start a thread.

Before anyone starts moaning - let me just state that Andy Murray is an Oirish fighter.

But he does box in the classical British text book style.

I loved watching him on Saturday. Upright, jabbing beautifully, using his feet to make deft counters on a tough, game opponent who was schooled in the American style.

The Americans big on style based on regions (they always refer mockingly as the 'European' style) - and in a broad sense - there can be some truth to it - Mexicans tend to box a certain way (or are taught a certain way) as do the Italians as do the Puerto Ricans as do the Germans. This is barring exceptions which are always the rule.

Wales said there wasn't any real physical difference between a British fighter and a Cuban fighter for example - but there obviously is based on DNA, culture and other aspects such as music which promotes rhytyhm - a top flight English footballer and a Brazillian footballer may train the same amount but who is the more skillful and which nation produces the better footballers on average? It makes sense that not every nation produces the same quality of sportsman for whatever reason.

So my point is - the classic, textbook British style that I saw on Saturday with Andy Murray - you don't really see all that much in the gyms around the UK anymore - why?

I think rap music ans techno in all these gyms are responsible for producing these different styles of fighters to the ones we used to see in British rings?

[damianhucker1]

arrrrrrrgh!

King DG is moaning about us lot not starting enough threads so I thought I would start a thread.

Before anyone starts moaning - let me just state that Andy Murray is an Oirish fighter.

But he does box in the classical British text book style.

I loved watching him on Saturday. Upright, jabbing beautifully, using his feet to make deft counters on a tough, game opponent who was schooled in the American style.

The Americans big on style based on regions (they always refer mockingly as the 'European' style) - and in a broad sense - there can be some truth to it - Mexicans tend to box a certain way (or are taught a certain way) as do the Italians as do the Puerto Ricans as do the Germans. This is barring exceptions which are always the rule.

Wales said there wasn't any real physical difference between a British fighter and a Cuban fighter for example - but there obviously is based on DNA, culture and other aspects such as music which promotes rhytyhm - a top flight English footballer and a Brazillian footballer may train the same amount but who is the more skillful and which nation produces the better footballers on average? It makes sense that not every nation produces the same quality of sportsman for whatever reason.

So my point is - the classic, textbook British style that I saw on Saturday with Andy Murray - you don't really see all that much in the gyms around the UK anymore - why?

I think rap music ans techno in all these gyms are responsible for producing these different styles of fighters to the ones we used to see in British rings?

so firstly then how would we describe a typical british fighters style ?

im not convinced that music can be making that much difference but i wouldnt totally rule it out in other countries , countries that maybe listen to traditional native music , but this country is so multicultural that the music is diverse , i as an example was very quick handed when i boxed , it was my defence that let me down , but i grew up listening to mainly reggae , which is slower , i naturally evolved onto dancehall which is faster and would have been listening to that when i boxed but it was simple slower reggae that would have influenced me as i was groing up , im described as very laid back , so much that im almost horizontal ( so they say) , so if music is to blame for that then reggae would make sense , but then sure my boxing style would have been all calm and collected too .

[DG.]

The beatdown suffered by Bruno and other 'traditional' fighters convinced others to follow the american way of fighting, box with a good fluid rythmn and be more adaptable.


Lok at the success of 'non traditional brits Calzage - Benn - Eubank Naz..

Michael Watson a very good correct boxer, but sadly did not achieve the success of his peers.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

arrrrrrrgh!

King DG is moaning about us lot not starting enough threads so I thought I would start a thread.

Before anyone starts moaning - let me just state that Andy Murray is an Oirish fighter.

But he does box in the classical British text book style.

I loved watching him on Saturday. Upright, jabbing beautifully, using his feet to make deft counters on a tough, game opponent who was schooled in the American style.

The Americans big on style based on regions (they always refer mockingly as the 'European' style) - and in a broad sense - there can be some truth to it - Mexicans tend to box a certain way (or are taught a certain way) as do the Italians as do the Puerto Ricans as do the Germans. This is barring exceptions which are always the rule.

Wales said there wasn't any real physical difference between a British fighter and a Cuban fighter for example - but there obviously is based on DNA, culture and other aspects such as music which promotes rhytyhm - a top flight English footballer and a Brazillian footballer may train the same amount but who is the more skillful and which nation produces the better footballers on average? It makes sense that not every nation produces the same quality of sportsman for whatever reason.

So my point is - the classic, textbook British style that I saw on Saturday with Andy Murray - you don't really see all that much in the gyms around the UK anymore - why?

I think rap music ans techno in all these gyms are responsible for producing these different styles of fighters to the ones we used to see in British rings?

so firstly then how would we describe a typical british fighters style ?

im not convinced that music can be making that much difference but i wouldnt totally rule it out in other countries , countries that maybe listen to traditional native music , but this country is so multicultural that the music is diverse , i as an example was very quick handed when i boxed , it was my defence that let me down , but i grew up listening to mainly reggae , which is slower , i naturally evolved onto dancehall which is faster and would have been listening to that when i boxed but it was simple slower reggae that would have influenced me as i was groing up , im described as very laid back , so much that im almost horizontal ( so they say) , so if music is to blame for that then reggae would make sense , but then sure my boxing style would have been all calm and collected too .

I have just said.

Upright style, jabbing fast with one hand and using the more powerful hand as the one to land with the knockout blow using the feet sparingly but deftly to land counters - something like Henry Cooper or Alan Minter or Bruce Woodcock or Pat Cowdell or - I can name hundreds of fighters to be honest with that style - used to be very common on these shores but you hardly see it anymore - British boxing has changed quite a lot over the past 30 years. There is a definite British style - ask anyone who has watched boxing before 1985.

I have never heard reggae in a gym but I have not been in every gym in the country - the ones I have been to have usually heavy bass music or techno or whatever - the gyms I trained in never had any music.

What I do know is that is that hardly any of our top fighters have that classical British style - the nearest we have to it is Amir Khan!
If you think of the styles of Froch, Hatton, Witter, Naz, Lennox Lewis, Calazghe, (who style is very Italian - a harder hitting, slightly more aggressive Gianfranco Rosi)none of these styles have really been seen in the UK before - most of these fighters except Witter whose style is based on Bomber Graham - they were all pioneers of their style in the UK.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

The beatdown suffered by Bruno and other 'traditional' fighters convinced others to follow the american way of fighting, box with a good fluid rythmn and be more adaptable.


Lok at the success of 'non traditional brits Calzage - Benn - Eubank Naz..

Michael Watson a very good correct boxer, but sadly did not achieve the success of his peers.

You are right - the British style isn't the best style to take on the world - as you say - British fighters today are finding success by using fighting styles that are very - for want of a better word 'un-British'

I used to love watching the likes of Mickey Cantwell but that kind of fighter is becoming more rare - a pity!

[Counter-puncher]

its not becoming extinct i don't think carlos

I saw a kid a couple of years back James Flinn from Coventry, fits the bill perfectly, Colin Lynes would probably, etc etc

[hurlock]

what you saying??? if i listen to classical music i'll box classy

peter buckley must be into punk

[Counter-puncher]

actually, from what i have seen of our own alex paterson he has a very classic british style

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

its not becoming extinct i don't think carlos

I saw a kid a couple of years back James Flinn from Coventry, fits the bill perfectly, Colin Lynes would probably, etc etc

I think you see a lot less of it than you did back in the day so it is becoming - probably extinct is not the right word for this moment in time but less common! I think that is the case!

[DG.]

Calzaghe traditional Intalian boxer?

Calzaghe does not throw himself on the ground crying like a bitch from the wind of a punch or the threat of a punch.

Most italians boxers are as bad as footballers.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

what you saying??? if i listen to classical music i'll box classy

peter buckley must be into punk

What I am saying is that you have got the IQ of a squeezed lemon!

[Counter-puncher]

its not becoming extinct i don't think carlos

I saw a kid a couple of years back James Flinn from Coventry, fits the bill perfectly, Colin Lynes would probably, etc etc

I think you see a lot less of it than you did back in the day so it is becoming - probably extinct is not the right word for this moment in time but less common! I think that is the case!

if you think about it though people who move with their feet and keep basically upright are still much more (IMO) common than Napa types who roll a lot.

would you say Booth was un-traditional for a british boxer's style, for example?

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

Calzaghe traditional Intalian boxer?

Calzaghe does not throw himself on the ground crying like a bitch from the wind of a punch or the threat of a punch.

Most italians boxers are as bad as footballers.

DG reverting to age old stereotypes!

If you watch a lot of the classical Italian boxers of yesteryear -a lot of them box on a similar style to Calazghe - fast hands, lots of flurires, a similar style to Calazghe - Gianfranco Rosi was something similar to Calazghe as is the current olympic super heavyweight gold medalist David Camerelle - but a lot of Italian boxers are coached that way and lets be honest - how many British fighters have you seen fight like Calazghe?

[Counter-puncher]

how many British fighters have you seen fight like Calazghe?

I can do a decent impression after 4 or 5 pints

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

its not becoming extinct i don't think carlos

I saw a kid a couple of years back James Flinn from Coventry, fits the bill perfectly, Colin Lynes would probably, etc etc

I think you see a lot less of it than you did back in the day so it is becoming - probably extinct is not the right word for this moment in time but less common! I think that is the case!

if you think about it though people who move with their feet and keep basically upright are still much more (IMO) common than Napa types who roll a lot.

would you say Booth was un-traditional for a british boxer's style, for example?

You know what - I haven't seen Jason Booth box for ages - I have been out of the country for three years! If I weren't in this paranoid commie shithole - I would happily refresh my memory on youtube!

The boxing I have seen on undercards and main events recently - I don't get to see the classical British textbook style all that much - there is a myraid of styles you see in British rings the last time I was there (that you never really used to see) and I am sure it has not reverted in anyway. It was nice to see young Andy Murray box in the classical British textbook style though. It was like a blast from the past.

[Counter-puncher]

okay well following on

isn't John Murray's basically a very strong go-forward 'classical british' style?

Joe his brother is a bit slicker but similar.

Booth has some little flourishes that don't look like they are classically 'british' but i think he would basically qualify.

i do partially agree that there has been a more, umm, diverse set of styles in british fighters in maybe the past 20 years.

but then if you look at what a lot of Pat Cowdell (supposedly the 'classic' style) was doing it was HORRIBLE to watch in some ways, all that herky-jerky moving that made him look like he was being shot through with 25 volts every few seconds.... so.... there was always room for variation in any case

but its a good thread nonetheless heh

[Counter-puncher]

ps i would be interested to hear bennie's thoughts on this

[TerribleTerry]

Not too long ago both Richie Woodhall and Robert McCraken had success with what I would consider a classic, upright 'British' boxing style...
Personally I prefer a modified style using more head and upper body movement.

[Counter-puncher]

exactly terry, and i would say as with Michael Watson, the 'glass ceiling' they found at world level wasn't due to their style and its supposed limitations IMO, but their relative lack of talent at the top level.

if watson's feet were a bit quicker, or if Woodhall had a slightly better punch/punch resistance, they would have been fine at world level IMO.

[bennie]

British fighters have been slated by the Americans for years as Phaintin' Phil Scotts, but Lloyd Honeyghan and Nigel Benn proved every bit as brash and as fluid as the Americans (and did they like it?) - but there is no doubt the quality of our heavies have never helped our 'image' to the outside world.
Yes, we are a little stiff, a little upright, a little 'Steve Robinson', a 'big Frank Bruno, but in David Haye we now have a 29-year-old heavyweight - a natural athlete - who can shake off the age-old assumptions.

[ApolloCreed]

Excellent thread. Great shout on Lynes. Compare him to someone like McCloskey and it's easy to see your point, the style isn't seen as much now.

[Wales]

Wales said there wasn't any real physical difference between a British fighter and a Cuban fighter for example - but there obviously is based on DNA, culture and other aspects such as music which promotes rhytyhm - a top flight English footballer and a Brazillian footballer may train the same amount but who is the more skillful and which nation produces the better footballers on average? It makes sense that not every nation produces the same quality of sportsman for whatever reason.

Did I??

I said about Cubans...

theyre skin, bone and attributes just like the rest of us.

but at no point did I try to say they dont produce a different style of fighter.

[Wales]

I have never heard reggae in a gym but I have not been in every gym in the country - the ones I have been to have usually heavy bass music or techno or whatever - the gyms I trained in never had any music.

regge is Oliver Harrisons choice of tune in the gym. Jamie & Alex Matt wouldnt be classed as regge fighters, thats for sure.

[Wales]

How about Darren Barker, and even Matt Macklin (recent performances), for being a little more british textbook these days?

[stujones]

I think the "British" style, or what I consider the British style..... e.g. your jabbers - such as a Richie Woodhall etc is being kind of taught out of the game because of the lack of fire power that style can also bring, often is back foot which will reduce the power and not deemed aggressive enough to win fights in close ones by coaches.

I can see the benefits of why coaches are not teaching this like they used to..... the come forward - Nigel Benn, Ricky Hatton approach will generate more excitement, more knock outs and more money. However, I do think fighters need to be taught to fight the back foot way. Its almost the natural instinct of every fighter who makes it to come forward and try and bash the opponent out of there. Yes, of course some will not appear that way (e.g. Eubank - who looked so gangly going forward)... however, I reckon in his first few sparring sessions as a kid he was trying to bash his opponent out of there.

So I think its alot harder to "teach" the British style, because its not really natural (hence why it was laughed at in the states) - but it is very effective as a back up plan.

I know he posts on here, so I mean this with the greatest of respect (as I do with all boxers) but I've spent many hours screaming at the screen to see Jamie Moore take a back step and box a little bit more.

I think fighting the "british" way is very effective for fighters, without necessary the greatest natural talent in the world, to over achieve a little. Colin Lynes is the classic recent example, Darren Barker who fights the British way, but he is one who I hope can mix it up also.

Steve Robinson is one exception though, he is one fighter who I would have loved to have seen get "americanised". I think he had alot more natural talent than his style, and even his achievements, credited him with. Great strength, great handspeed.