Offical eastman vs hopkins thread

[jamesmcdonnell]

You guys impressed with Taylor? Yeah he looked good but he is highly protected. That guy last night offered no punching threat to him whatsoever and Taylor towered over him. Their must be a reason he's so protected.

Agree with this completely, been saying since I first started seeing Taylor a couple years ago. He's a pretty boy filling a particular market niche. It's plain to see he has skills, but I think he'd fall apart in a real fight. Hopkins would jab and drown him.

A couple of years from now - or if he gets some proper contender experience - he's got a better chance of giving Hopkins grief.

Ok, name me 5 fighters out there who you think are better than Taylour.

Edouard was known for being a tough nut, and Taylor totally controlled the fight, nullified his offence and picked him apart.

Taylor is a pretty smart fighter, you could say he's protected, but I don't really see much to be gained from putting him in loads more fights against Sam Soliman, Raymond Joval etc. One more fight, then stick him in there.

If Taylor takes the title AFTER hopkins retires, then he's going to be ruling a shit division. If he BEATS hopkins, he's a legit champ, if he LOSES then it's no great shame and Hopkins can bow out with an impressive ledger and Taylor can probably go on to take the division.

[Lefthookhappy19]

Taylor looks totally huge at the weight, he weighted in at 162 in fact. I don't buy the stuff about Edouard, you saw the respect (lack off) that Taylor showed when he came out and started bombing. They say Sam Soliman is much improved and might give Taylor an interesting fight. Eastman I expect will be next. Or even Ike Quartey who's now fighting at middle and signed up with Taylors promoters.

[Manos de Oro]

You guys impressed with Taylor? Yeah he looked good but he is highly protected. That guy last night offered no punching threat to him whatsoever and Taylor towered over him. Their must be a reason he's so protected.

Agree with this completely, been saying since I first started seeing Taylor a couple years ago. He's a pretty boy filling a particular market niche. It's plain to see he has skills, but I think he'd fall apart in a real fight. Hopkins would jab and drown him.

A couple of years from now - or if he gets some proper contender experience - he's got a better chance of giving Hopkins grief.

Put him in with Hopkins now, if he loses its not the end of the world he can come again but if he wins then he's taken the title off the champ rather than waiting for Hopkins to retire. Who in all honesty is out there that can stretch him and make him any more prepared for Hopkins? Maybe a few fights with some super middles would be nice to get him some rounds otherwise he blows everyone else away.

Have you seen his fight with Joppy? He completely dominated him and that was a real fight.

Yes, I agree there's no one really out there just now who will give him the necessary preparation, and it's conceivable he could come back from a defeat. The thing that irks me is how they're trying to create this linear transition between Hopkins and Taylor/past and present. I don't see him as heir to Bernard at all. He's a product of HBO, Hopkins is a product of a real career. They're on different levels and it will show if they fight.

007, not seen Taylor - Joppy because I thought Joppy was only turning up for the payday. I then read reports of the fight and they said he disgraced himself with his lack of trying, so I didn't bother buying it.

James, Edouard was pretty pathetic in the way he capitulated. I really liked how he gritted it out against Gibbs, who was also a big middleweight, but he showed none of that against Taylor. I was hoping for a 50-50 fight, but Edouard looked a class below.

BTW, I never said anywhere I had a problem with Taylor as a contendor for Hopkins, just that I thought he'd get beat...

[steve689]

I'm not so sure Taylor did dominate Joppy completely, early on it was shaping up to be a nice fight until Joppy was dropped and then he totally went into a survival shell.

Anyway back to last night and i think there have been some very good points made, the fight was pretty much one sided, i cannot believe how slow Eastman looked. He was leaning in to much and pawing out that lazy jab with no effect, his combinations were none existant and he threw mostly missing single shots...however when he did unload and trade he looked ok. I really thought Eastman had a chance going in but i think i may have been watching him go through sub standard opposition and fooled myself into that way of thinking. Hopkins made him look slow and cumbersome and he wasn't even out of third gear.

Good point on the uppercuts, why wasn't Howard throwing any? He had great success against Joppy with that punch and landed a great one late on when Hopkins came in head down. Eastman is strong and methodical but was outclassed in my opinion, i didn't score the fight but would be inclinded to give it to Hopkins by 8 or 9 rounds, i wouldn't say it was boring at all. Hopkins is a fascinating fighter to watch in my opinion, very controlled and takes his man apart gradually without moving into a higher gear, he is one of the greats to be IMO.

As for Howard's corner i was very disappointed with Robert McCracken, did he seriously think Howard was doing enough? Where was the urgency? Going into round 11 he was saying it was "Anybody's fight", i dont think it was...he should have hit it home to Howard, either get your hands up and start letting go when Hopkins was against the ropes or play the fight out at a mediocre pace just content to do the distance. His advice was repetetive and like Manos pointed out...pretty basic.

[Nels]

I've consumed most of a bottle of Shiraz, but I thought that the fight was rather entertaining, all in all.

Eastman did better than I thought he would; lost by at least five rounds, though. Hopkins would I believe, fight a totally different fight against Taylor (how about Taylor-Eastman if Taylor wants to fight Bernard?). Hopkins is a cutie these days, and I think can still crack harder than anyone Taylor's fought. What happens when Taylor's nailed on the chin with one he doesn't see coming? But that's a discussion for another thread.

Personally, anyone who thought that the fight was dull had to be more pissed than I was when I watched it. No classic, certainly, but world class in every sense of the term.

Hopkins fights are determined entirely by his opposition; there is only one constant: he beats you. He is the man, until proven otherwise in thirty-six minutes or less.

[MightyWarrior]

Well our man Howard just didn't do enough, as a lot of people were expecting. Of course ol' man Hopkins had a lot to do with that: he just doesn't put a foot wrong these days.

Now I don't want to kick a man when he's down, but Rob McCraken needed some serious help in that corner.
He may be a great trainer and great at tactics, but as a motivator, he's just not at the races.
Eastman needed someone to light a fire under him ( think Dundee "You're blowng it son!! ) but the monotone Rob sounds like he's having a chat at a garden tea party half the time.
I know a calm corner is best most of the time, but when all else fails, your tactics aren't working and its rounds 9,10,11 - a bit of urgency is needed.
I get the impression Rob would barely raise an eyebrow if he was told a comet was heading towards earth and we all had 5 minutes to live.

[Coconut]

MW, I do appreciate your point but how well would that work for someone like Eastman? The guy's so contrary that I'm more than happy to believe his trainer knows how he ticks.

[MightyWarrior]

MW, I do appreciate your point but how well would that work for someone like Eastman? The guy's so contrary that I'm more than happy to believe his trainer knows how he ticks.

Yeah you could be right, his trainer knows him a hell of a lot better than I do of course. And Eastman is a contrary SOB...

It's just when I saw the way he took it to Hop in the 8th, a little more of that - right from the off - seemed a good idea.
I said before the fight that Howard needed someone to light a rocket under him, otherwise he stood no chance - and it just never happened.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I agree, McCracken was practically begging Eastman to throw the jab all the way through the fight, what did Howard do, fornicate all!

I just don't understand what Howard was trying to do in that fight, throwing nothing but lead right hands. Even if he wasn't going to jab, surely he should have followed up with the left hook?

[J]

hopkins was just far too slick.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I don't think he would have looked as slick with a jab poked in his mush all night.

[J]

james was reference to certain parties who seems to think BHop wasnt slick enough to deal with Howard.

[Kilburn]

Well I enjoyed that fight. Hopkins was absolutely brilliant still, an example to just about every other fighter out there. Eastman did better than I expected, showing decent hand speed at times but it was never going to be enough.

I remember thinking when Hopkins as a 34yr old took out Simon Brown that it was a great shame this guy would be over the hill soon. But it just hasn't happened. He looks as good as ever at 40.

[J]

Yip agreed Kil, Howard is a big middle, nearer super middle and Hop decided the easiest way to win was to box him, be slick and not be there. Nick the rounds and tie him up.

The stat that Eastman threw 250 jabs and connected with 16 or whatever said it all really.

Having said that BHop could have probably gone to war and won also Howard just doesnt have the work rate to beat Nard. But i think he is saving his big performances now for the big names. The way he boxed Howard reminded me of lewis tua.

To be honest hopkins is one of the best thinking fighters Ive ever come accross, he takes two rounds and doesnt care if he loses or splits them and just figures out what gameplan he is gonna put into effect.

People say he is a slwo starter but I think he comes to the ring with a couple of options a plan A B and C. He takes a round or two to figure out which one is going to work best.

In short brilliant but not pretty. Boxing nuts will appreciate the skill buit the man in the street will think it was boring.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I agree that Hopkins executed his game plan perfectly, but I think Howard made it very easy for him.

As the the jab stats, Howard never threw a proper jab all night, he was just pawing with it to pick off Hopkins' shots and as a rangefinder. He does the same thing in every fight virtually, I don't really understand what the purpose is of that shot, the jab should be a scoring shot to rack up points, and a counterpoint to the straight right. Howard just sticks it out there and dabs with it.

As good as Hopkins looked, I believe that Jermain Taylor is already good enough to give him some problems. I know he's protected and he hasn't faced off against a top 10 MW, but there really aren't too many other tests out there for him.

Eastman did everything to allow Hopkins the space and time to execute his own game plan, he was so hesitant that Bernard had plenty of oppertunity to counter him and walk around the ring at a leisurely pace.

I can only assume that Eastman hoped he would connect with a massive right hand, wobble Hopkins and then finish him off, that's a pretty hopeful gameplan against someone as experienced as Bernard, and I doubt that was what McCracken had planned.

Hopkins is a great fighter, and I have nothing but admiration for him, but I do believe that Eastman helped him look good.

[Kilburn]

I can see you were pretty impressed by Taylor, James. I've rated him a better boxer than Eastman for some time now. I'm glad Hopkins seems to want to accept the challenge.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Although Taylor was in against a non-threat, I was impressed by the way he dealt with Edourd. He never let him into the fight.

Taylor seems to have very good funamentals, and has bags of natural talent. Of course, we have no idea how strong he may be mentally, because he hasn't been in a dogfight, but there may be nobody out there, apart from Hopkins that is capable of doing so.

In addition to that, Taylor has the great leveller, punchpower, and he is technically good enough to deliver it accurately.

I think Taylor would beat Eastman myself, he has a lot more tools in his arsenal, and his workrate would give Howard big problems. Of course, Eastman may be able to detonate something on his chin, but Taylor is a big strong middleweight.

Although there's a lot of cynicism surrounding taylor, I think the guy looks like he could become the complete package, so long as the mental component is there.

[J]

as you say James Taylor looked impressive whether eh is able to mix it with the next level up we wont know til they step him up !

Personally I think BHop will end up with the winner of Tito Winky as his next big fight.

[tonyevs]

Manny Steward was spot on by saying more or less Hopkins is just the best of a bad bunch.
Hopkins could have made it a better fight, but just stole each round by landing a couple of big shot ( which didn’t bother Eastman one bit) at the end of each round.

Eastman wasn`t good enough to beat him but Hopkins highlighted for me he is not as good as the record books make him look.
Manny Steward is spot on with his description.
The middleweight division is suffering almost as much as the heavyweight divison.

[J]

Manny Steward was spot on by saying more or less Hopkins is just the best of a bad bunch.
Hopkins could have made it a better fight, but just stole each round by landing a couple of big shot ( which didn’t bother Eastman one bit) at the end of each round.

Eastman wasn`t good enough to beat him but Hopkins highlighted for me he is not as good as the record books make him look.
Manny Steward is spot on with his description.
The middleweight division is suffering almost as much as the heavyweight divison.

YIP though I think the comparison is similar to when lewis had cleaned up the division.
two dominatn champs way out ahead of the rest.

[lirva33]

Although Taylor was in against a non-threat, I was impressed by the way he dealt with Edourd. He never let him into the fight.

Taylor seems to have very good funamentals, and has bags of natural talent. Of course, we have no idea how strong he may be mentally, because he hasn't been in a dogfight, but there may be nobody out there, apart from Hopkins that is capable of doing so.

In addition to that, Taylor has the great leveller, punchpower, and he is technically good enough to deliver it accurately.

I think Taylor would beat Eastman myself, he has a lot more tools in his arsenal, and his workrate would give Howard big problems. Of course, Eastman may be able to detonate something on his chin, but Taylor is a big strong middleweight.

Although there's a lot of cynicism surrounding taylor, I think the guy looks like he could become the complete package, so long as the mental component is there.

it was the first time I saw taylor but I couldn't disagree more with you.

The guy has some serious flaws and is very overhyped.

Taylor had PISS POOR balance and poor footwork IMO. He got caught by jabs as well, by a shorter guy. He doesn't seem to know how to slip a jab?

I can't see him beating Eastman at all unless he lands a few Hail Mary's late on which take their toll on Howard. As far as beating Hopkins... forget it. Taylor couldn't be more open when he throws his punches. It really is shocking. Hopkins would have him figured out within 2-3 rounds and would catch him properly and repeatedly from then on out.

I can't see any way taylor can beat Hopkins.

[Kilburn]

I like to think people will marvel at the obvious dedication needed to maintain such a high level of all round athleticism at 40 years of age, more than they will the amount of title defences Hopkins has on his record.

[jamesmcdonnell]

as you say James Taylor looked impressive whether eh is able to mix it with the next level up we wont know til they step him up !

Personally I think BHop will end up with the winner of Tito Winky as his next big fight.

Probably right, although according to American sources, DiBella is keep to get Taylor in there with Hopkins right away, as they want to make a big money fight. If Hopkins beats Tito/Winky then retires or moves up in weight, it leaves the Middleweight division in terrible trouble, nobody for Taylor to fight at all.

I can see Taylor moving up in weight, apparently he's already struggling to make 160, so can see him against Lacy some time in the next couple of years provided they are both still at the top. Calzaghe will probably be retired by then, and Lacy may or may not have one or more belts. Green should be around still, Kessler maybe, and who knows, maybe we will have Froch.

SM is shaping up nicely I think, better than it has been since the days of Eubank et al.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Although Taylor was in against a non-threat, I was impressed by the way he dealt with Edourd. He never let him into the fight.

Taylor seems to have very good funamentals, and has bags of natural talent. Of course, we have no idea how strong he may be mentally, because he hasn't been in a dogfight, but there may be nobody out there, apart from Hopkins that is capable of doing so.

In addition to that, Taylor has the great leveller, punchpower, and he is technically good enough to deliver it accurately.

I think Taylor would beat Eastman myself, he has a lot more tools in his arsenal, and his workrate would give Howard big problems. Of course, Eastman may be able to detonate something on his chin, but Taylor is a big strong middleweight.

Although there's a lot of cynicism surrounding taylor, I think the guy looks like he could become the complete package, so long as the mental component is there.

it was the first time I saw taylor but I couldn't disagree more with you.

The guy has some serious flaws and is very overhyped.

Taylor had PISS POOR balance and poor footwork IMO. He got caught by jabs as well, by a shorter guy. He doesn't seem to know how to slip a jab?

I can't see him beating Eastman at all unless he lands a few Hail Mary's late on which take their toll on Howard. As far as beating Hopkins... forget it. Taylor couldn't be more open when he throws his punches. It really is shocking. Hopkins would have him figured out within 2-3 rounds and would catch him properly and repeatedly from then on out.

I can't see any way taylor can beat Hopkins.

Do you ever have anything good to say about ANY fighter, apart from Witter. Funny how you don't see those things in Witter who leaves his chin sticking up in the air when he wings those big shots.

How do you figure Eastman would be so certain to beat Taylor, based on what precisely? The last guy Eastman beat in impressive fashion of any note was Hassine Cheriffi, who was shot to shit.

Eastman's limitations were all too clear, and the version of Joppy he losts to wasn't really much different to the version Taylor dominated for the entire fight.

Edouard had the longer reach of the two if you check the stats, and how many jabs did Taylor take, and what was he landing in return. If he was so open to shots, how come he took so few?

[lirva33]

Although Taylor was in against a non-threat, I was impressed by the way he dealt with Edourd. He never let him into the fight.

Taylor seems to have very good funamentals, and has bags of natural talent. Of course, we have no idea how strong he may be mentally, because he hasn't been in a dogfight, but there may be nobody out there, apart from Hopkins that is capable of doing so.

In addition to that, Taylor has the great leveller, punchpower, and he is technically good enough to deliver it accurately.

I think Taylor would beat Eastman myself, he has a lot more tools in his arsenal, and his workrate would give Howard big problems. Of course, Eastman may be able to detonate something on his chin, but Taylor is a big strong middleweight.

Although there's a lot of cynicism surrounding taylor, I think the guy looks like he could become the complete package, so long as the mental component is there.

it was the first time I saw taylor but I couldn't disagree more with you.

The guy has some serious flaws and is very overhyped.

Taylor had PISS POOR balance and poor footwork IMO. He got caught by jabs as well, by a shorter guy. He doesn't seem to know how to slip a jab?

I can't see him beating Eastman at all unless he lands a few Hail Mary's late on which take their toll on Howard. As far as beating Hopkins... forget it. Taylor couldn't be more open when he throws his punches. It really is shocking. Hopkins would have him figured out within 2-3 rounds and would catch him properly and repeatedly from then on out.

I can't see any way taylor can beat Hopkins.

Do you ever have anything good to say about ANY fighter, apart from Witter. Funny how you don't see those things in Witter who leaves his chin sticking up in the air when he wings those big shots.

How do you figure Eastman would be so certain to beat Taylor, based on what precisely? The last guy Eastman beat in impressive fashion of any note was Hassine Cheriffi, who was shot to shit.

Eastman's limitations were all too clear, and the version of Joppy he losts to wasn't really much different to the version Taylor dominated for the entire fight.

Edouard had the longer reach of the two if you check the stats, and how many jabs did Taylor take, and what was he landing in return. If he was so open to shots, how come he took so few?

Because eduard couldn't capitalize because he isn't good enough.

Listen, taylor is very untested. Who has he beaten? A badly faded Joppy who was nowhere near the Joppy Howard lost to. Eastman has a good chin and is a big puncher. And don't forget that Taylor has ducked Eastman already.

Eduard caught taylor a few times because of his inability to slip jabs properly. He has such poor balance and footwork that when he tried to slip a jab he was open for what came next.

It amazes me that you can't see this in Taylor.

Howard would capitalize on this I feel. Don't get me wrong, Taylor has a chance against Howard because of his power, but I just think Eastman would figure him out quite quickly.

But I am in no doubt that Hopkins would have Taylor on his back immediately. I would predict a stoppage in about the 5-6 round because Taylor is so open when he comes in.

You can't come to fight against B-Hop like that.