Ben Carey wrote:Great win for John Baguley. Good luck to Vinny Mitchell on the comeback trail. It doesn't mean he's finished but similarly the fact that he was stopped by Bhatia in the amateurs, dropped by Robin Deaken and now stopped by Baguley - hardly dynamite hitters - would clearly suggest that Vinny's punch resistance is his weakness. He's going to have to work on his defence and, understandably, be matched with caution for the foreseeable future.
It doesn't mean he isn't a good fighter, or can't necessarily regroup, but the refusal of Vinny's most ardent supporters to acknowledge this is what is getting on some people's tits.
Not at all, its not a refusal of anything. What gets on some tits is people trying to go on any chance to unreasonably discredit someone. Why bring up a fight from a fighters AM days when they are pro now? Infact, Vinny had the flu in that AM contest but he took the fight so no excuses. Yes he walked on to one v Deakin...But showed recovery powers to get up and win. And his last fight, he took although he was unwell (although he has not used as an excuse) knowing he had beat him before. There is more that goes on behind the actual results. If Calzague didn't pull out of certain fights when he was ill no doubt he'd have some defeats on his record. If Vinny didn't take that AM fight, or his last would he be being questioned?
no, because he is a nothing undercard fighter, people would not be remotely interested if vinny mitchell withdrew from a fight...
i think you will find calzaghe withdrew from fights during the build up stage, when he was world champion. hardly any comparison is there.
This is not bias as i do not know him personally I am trying to point out that there is no good reaon to be calling this boy a bad boxer over 1 loss when he got beat in the amateurs he was a boy boxing a man so how does this even come into the conversation. if its immature then so be it. as for how he has been matched if you take time to look back he has boxed fighters on his 6th fight that the likes of some other boxers including kevin mitchell were not given quite a bit later in their careers. I am not here to row with anyone i just feel it is being over reacted he was not knocked out he was still on his feet when the fight was stopped and completely fine and word of mouth is that he was unwell before the fight so maybey that had something to do with it and the sudden loss of energy as he was winning every round before that.
Well, he's had 12 fights now, so at some point they will need to consider a suitable level of opposition. He can't go on being matched against journeymen for ever.
Ben Carey wrote:Great win for John Baguley. Good luck to Vinny Mitchell on the comeback trail. It doesn't mean he's finished but similarly the fact that he was stopped by Bhatia in the amateurs, dropped by Robin Deaken and now stopped by Baguley - hardly dynamite hitters - would clearly suggest that Vinny's punch resistance is his weakness. He's going to have to work on his defence and, understandably, be matched with caution for the foreseeable future.
It doesn't mean he isn't a good fighter, or can't necessarily regroup, but the refusal of Vinny's most ardent supporters to acknowledge this is what is getting on some people's tits.
Not at all, its not a refusal of anything. What gets on some tits is people trying to go on any chance to unreasonably discredit someone. Why bring up a fight from a fighters AM days when they are pro now? Infact, Vinny had the flu in that AM contest but he took the fight so no excuses. Yes he walked on to one v Deakin...But showed recovery powers to get up and win. And his last fight, he took although he was unwell (although he has not used as an excuse) knowing he had beat him before. There is more that goes on behind the actual results. If Calzague didn't pull out of certain fights when he was ill no doubt he'd have some defeats on his record. If Vinny didn't take that AM fight, or his last would he be being questioned?
no, because he is a nothing undercard fighter, people would not be remotely interested if vinny mitchell withdrew from a fight...
i think you will find calzaghe withdrew from fights during the build up stage, when he was world champion. hardly any comparison is there.
Why the disrespect? No boxer is a 'nothing fighter' .... Obviously you have never stepped foot in a boxing ring to have your attitude. How do you know Calzaghe or any other top fighter never pulled out in early fights of their career? I used Calzaghe as an example what is known about...We dont know about undercard fights that fall through do we, open your mind
boxing12 wrote:This is not bias as i do not know him personally.
I do not know him personally but I feel so strongly about this that I'm going to make my first ever post on a forum deriding anyone who questions Mitchell's ability
Please don't make me laugh. You so clearly have a vested interest in Mitchell that even Stevie Wonder could see it.
PS. Des1, is it you under a different username?
This is not bias as i do not know him personally I am trying to point out that there is no good reaon to be calling this boy a bad boxer over 1 loss when he got beat in the amateurs he was a boy boxing a man so how does this even come into the conversation. if its immature then so be it. as for how he has been matched if you take time to look back he has boxed fighters on his 6th fight that the likes of some other boxers including kevin mitchell were not given quite a bit later in their careers. I am not here to row with anyone i just feel it is being over reacted he was not knocked out he was still on his feet when the fight was stopped and completely fine and word of mouth is that he was unwell before the fight so maybey that had something to do with it and the sudden loss of energy as he was winning every round before that.
Well, he's had 12 fights now, so at some point they will need to consider a suitable level of opposition. He can't go on being matched against journeymen for ever.
12 fights? Yes thats a hell of a lot! Was Khan still fighting journeymen at 12 fights?...Yes. Look at current champions records, many were still boxing journeymen after 12 fights. Why the bashing? It's not as if he's an arrogant cocky fighter! Got the mentality of just loving to kick a man when he's down.
boxing12 wrote:This is not bias as i do not know him personally.
I do not know him personally but I feel so strongly about this that I'm going to make my first ever post on a forum deriding anyone who questions Mitchell's ability
Please don't make me laugh. You so clearly have a vested interest in Mitchell that even Stevie Wonder could see it.
PS. Des1, is it you under a different username?
boxing12 wrote:This is not bias as i do not know him personally.
I do not know him personally but I feel so strongly about this that I'm going to make my first ever post on a forum deriding anyone who questions Mitchell's ability
Please don't make me laugh. You so clearly have a vested interest in Mitchell that even Stevie Wonder could see it.
PS. Des1, is it you under a different username?
Assumtions are for those who have no argument
And what, pray tell, are we actually supposed to be arguing about?
This is not bias as i do not know him personally I am trying to point out that there is no good reaon to be calling this boy a bad boxer over 1 loss when he got beat in the amateurs he was a boy boxing a man so how does this even come into the conversation. if its immature then so be it. as for how he has been matched if you take time to look back he has boxed fighters on his 6th fight that the likes of some other boxers including kevin mitchell were not given quite a bit later in their careers. I am not here to row with anyone i just feel it is being over reacted he was not knocked out he was still on his feet when the fight was stopped and completely fine and word of mouth is that he was unwell before the fight so maybey that had something to do with it and the sudden loss of energy as he was winning every round before that.
Well, he's had 12 fights now, so at some point they will need to consider a suitable level of opposition. He can't go on being matched against journeymen for ever.
Well he got stopped by a journeyman in his last fight, so don't expect him to step up any time soon.
Des1 wrote:
Not at all, its not a refusal of anything. What gets on some tits is people trying to go on any chance to unreasonably discredit someone. Why bring up a fight from a fighters AM days when they are pro now? Infact, Vinny had the flu in that AM contest but he took the fight so no excuses. Yes he walked on to one v Deakin...But showed recovery powers to get up and win. And his last fight, he took although he was unwell (although he has not used as an excuse) knowing he had beat him before. There is more that goes on behind the actual results. If Calzague didn't pull out of certain fights when he was ill no doubt he'd have some defeats on his record. If Vinny didn't take that AM fight, or his last would he be being questioned?
no, because he is a nothing undercard fighter, people would not be remotely interested if vinny mitchell withdrew from a fight...
i think you will find calzaghe withdrew from fights during the build up stage, when he was world champion. hardly any comparison is there.
Why the disrespect? No boxer is a 'nothing fighter' .... Obviously you have never stepped foot in a boxing ring to have your attitude. How do you know Calzaghe or any other top fighter never pulled out in early fights of their career? I used Calzaghe as an example what is known about...We dont know about undercard fights that fall through do we, open your mind
wrong actually, i had 12 fights as a schoolboy.... nothing to write home about but for some reason it seems you only consider someone worthy of opinion if they have been or are a fighter. a bit blinkered of you i think.
vinny is a 'nothing' fighter (kudos to him for having the balls to step inside the pro ring, thats all) until he has achieved something in the pro game and perhaps fought someone with a winning record and progressed, just my opinion and im sure its echoed. its up to the fighter to make himself 'something' ..... and as far as im concerned vinny has not done that yet. he has been afforded the luxury of being filmed fighting on tv a number of times, mainly riding on his brothers shirt tails. far far better fighters are still clawing their way round small hall undercards (tyrone nurse for instance !!) for miniscule purses compared to those earned by vinny mitchell for such an early stage in his career. vinny has been very very lucky, but im sat here doubting that allegedly will decorate the sky sports airwaves with him again.
It’s easy to write Vinny off after an early career stoppage defeat. Just as easy as it would have been to write off Glen Catley, Carl Thompson, Silky Jones and Glenn McCorry who all suffered early career stoppage defeats, to at the time area level or journeymen opposition. All rebounded to go on and lift a big four world titles.
It’s still early days with a long tough road ahead, but certainly not the end of a career by any means.
rhino222 wrote:
no, because he is a nothing undercard fighter, people would not be remotely interested if vinny mitchell withdrew from a fight...
i think you will find calzaghe withdrew from fights during the build up stage, when he was world champion. hardly any comparison is there.
Why the disrespect? No boxer is a 'nothing fighter' .... Obviously you have never stepped foot in a boxing ring to have your attitude. How do you know Calzaghe or any other top fighter never pulled out in early fights of their career? I used Calzaghe as an example what is known about...We dont know about undercard fights that fall through do we, open your mind
wrong actually, i had 12 fights as a schoolboy.... nothing to write home about but for some reason it seems you only consider someone worthy of opinion if they have been or are a fighter. a bit blinkered of you i think.
vinny is a 'nothing' fighter (kudos to him for having the balls to step inside the pro ring, thats all) until he has achieved something in the pro game and perhaps fought someone with a winning record and progressed, just my opinion and im sure its echoed. its up to the fighter to make himself 'something' ..... and as far as im concerned vinny has not done that yet. he has been afforded the luxury of being filmed fighting on tv a number of times, mainly riding on his brothers shirt tails. far far better fighters are still clawing their way round small hall undercards (tyrone nurse for instance !!) for miniscule purses compared to those earned by vinny mitchell for such an early stage in his career. vinny has been very very lucky, but im sat here doubting that allegedly will decorate the sky sports airwaves with him again.
just my opinion, are you with me or agin' me?
Where or how have I 'seemed to only consider someone worthy of opinion if they have been or are a fighter'? My point was to you that its a bit below the belt to start disrespecting fighters. No fighter is a nothing fighter. How many fighters have achieved anything or done something by their 12th fight? Not many.
The 'luxury' of fighting on TV a number of times riding on his brothers shirt tails? Thats a matter of opinion, would you like that pressure? I wouldn't.
How do you know what Vinny earns? Assumtions cant back up what you say. You are even contradicting yourself in your comment by acknowledging the fact that Vinny Mitchell is in "such an early stage in his career".
Being that you say you had 12 fights as a schoolboy, did you fight a Champion in your 12 fights or a top class fighter? Being that your so opinionated what a fighter should have done by 12 fights
And no, I'm not with you.
Last edited by Des1 on 17 Feb 2010, 18:49, edited 1 time in total.
Kit wrote:It’s easy to write Vinny off after an early career stoppage defeat. Just as easy as it would have been to write off Glen Catley, Carl Thompson, Silky Jones and Glenn McCorry who all suffered early career stoppage defeats, to at the time area level or journeymen opposition. All rebounded to go on and lift a big four world titles.
It’s still early days with a long tough road ahead, but certainly not the end of a career by any means.
Des1 wrote:Where or how have I 'seemed to only consider someone worthy of opinion if they have been or are a fighter'?
mmmm..let me see......
Des1 wrote:Obviously you have never stepped foot in a boxing ring to have your attitude.
oh......there it is !! .....
Yes, it is very rare for a 'decent' fighter to disrespect another fighter in the manner you do. Have an opinion yes, everyone is entitled to that, but the rudeness and disrespect?
And you wouldn't normally find that amoungest fellow fighters or genuine fans of the sport who have never stepped foot in the ring even.
Des1 wrote:Where or how have I 'seemed to only consider someone worthy of opinion if they have been or are a fighter'?
mmmm..let me see......
Des1 wrote:Obviously you have never stepped foot in a boxing ring to have your attitude.
oh......there it is !! .....
just to say vinny didnt decorate the airwaves on saturday so didnt ride of his brothers shirt tails and how do you know how much he earns ?? did he beat you in the am's and your still hurting ?? he works nights on the railway so he obviously doesnt earn a fortune from boxing thrus answering your remark about him being very very lucky to hang of kevin's shirt tails, unlike you which im guessing lost and gave up boxing vinny will go on to better things in boxing and life in general, i do know one thing for sure he will never disrespect another fellow fighter even if he never returned to the ring
I think he means his earnings compared to boxers in a similar position.Vinny will be on a lot more than if he was boxing on a non-televised small hall show,and miles more than on a dinner show
This is not bias as i do not know him personally I am trying to point out that there is no good reaon to be calling this boy a bad boxer over 1 loss when he got beat in the amateurs he was a boy boxing a man so how does this even come into the conversation. if its immature then so be it. as for how he has been matched if you take time to look back he has boxed fighters on his 6th fight that the likes of some other boxers including kevin mitchell were not given quite a bit later in their careers. I am not here to row with anyone i just feel it is being over reacted he was not knocked out he was still on his feet when the fight was stopped and completely fine and word of mouth is that he was unwell before the fight so maybey that had something to do with it and the sudden loss of energy as he was winning every round before that.
Well, he's had 12 fights now, so at some point they will need to consider a suitable level of opposition. He can't go on being matched against journeymen for ever.
12 fights? Yes thats a hell of a lot! Was Khan still fighting journeymen at 12 fights?...Yes. Look at current champions records, many were still boxing journeymen after 12 fights. Why the bashing? It's not as if he's an arrogant cocky fighter! Got the mentality of just loving to kick a man when he's down.
I wasn't bashing in the slightest. Nor am i looking to "kick a man when he is down."
My point, which I feel was clear, was that at some point his promoter will need to make a decision about his career. After a dozen or so fights, boxers are usually "moved upwards" with the route generally being towards some title, mixing with fighters with 50-50 records, foreign fly-ins with "respectable" records etc, before perhaps being matched for some sort of title.
The loss might be an issue, but it's unlikley he will "start from scratch."
Last edited by whicker on 18 Feb 2010, 10:41, edited 1 time in total.
mickey1975 wrote:I think he means his earnings compared to boxers in a similar position.Vinny will be on a lot more than if he was boxing on a non-televised small hall show,and miles more than on a dinner show
Des1 wrote:Where or how have I 'seemed to only consider someone worthy of opinion if they have been or are a fighter'?
mmmm..let me see......
Des1 wrote:Obviously you have never stepped foot in a boxing ring to have your attitude.
oh......there it is !! .....
just to say vinny didnt decorate the airwaves on saturday so didnt ride of his brothers shirt tails and how do you know how much he earns ?? did he beat you in the am's and your still hurting ?? he works nights on the railway so he obviously doesnt earn a fortune from boxing thrus answering your remark about him being very very lucky to hang of kevin's shirt tails, unlike you which im guessing lost and gave up boxing vinny will go on to better things in boxing and life in general, i do know one thing for sure he will never disrespect another fellow fighter even if he never returned to the ring
errrrrr... i had some schoolboy fights in the 70's.... thats all. im certainly not trying to insinuate it was anything more, but its that introduction in the sport that got me hooked on it, and i have been since, for some 38 years since !!
as for his purse... i know enough about the game to know that vinny, with the publicity and his brothers shirt-tails, will be gertting 3 times the purse on warre ns show compared to joe blogs who is fighting at mansfield hall, on a wet wednesday night in front of 300 people, thats life mate im afraid.
Des1 wrote:Where or how have I 'seemed to only consider someone worthy of opinion if they have been or are a fighter'?
mmmm..let me see......
Des1 wrote:Obviously you have never stepped foot in a boxing ring to have your attitude.
oh......there it is !! .....
Yes, it is very rare for a 'decent' fighter to disrespect another fighter in the manner you do. Have an opinion yes, everyone is entitled to that, but the rudeness and disrespect?
And you wouldn't normally find that amoungest fellow fighters or genuine fans of the sport who have never stepped foot in the ring even.
where is the rudeness and disrespect ? .. if i think someone is not so good, im allowed an opinion, if i think michael hunter is shot, ill dam well say so.
Khan is world class although his chin will let him down, Kevin is European Class, will make fringe World Class(for what its worth I have never seen Katsidis as anything more than fringe world class, he isn't a special fighter), Vinny Mitchell won't ever make domestic class.
And before anyone gets going, I mean no dis-respect
Why the disrespect? No boxer is a 'nothing fighter' .... Obviously you have never stepped foot in a boxing ring to have your attitude. How do you know Calzaghe or any other top fighter never pulled out in early fights of their career? I used Calzaghe as an example what is known about...We dont know about undercard fights that fall through do we, open your mind
