Wlad Klitschko V

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Wlad has a significant edge in power. Vitali doesn't hit very hard. He is in great shape and throws a lot of punches. But he isn't close to being a banger. Wlad is reluctant to throw punches, but when he does they carry much more power than his brothers.

[MEISINGER]

I would bet huge on Witherspoon against Wlad. Highlight reel KO or a decision win. He would take away that jab and have Klitschko in horror from that overhand right. Fat and out of shape Spoon wins a decision.

i agree i am not a huge gamblin man,but i would bet huge om witherspoon to win

[dempseyfire]

he can be exciting [remember his 6th round destruction of Mercer]he fought courageously against Peter and ever since he hasn't come close to defea The list has shown he has annihilated the abortions in boxing, and he's showing that he is the better fighter than his brother Vitali. H2H Vitali beats Wladimir, yes, but when it comes to overall skill and saavy fighting ability, Wladimir is the best heavyweight on the planet bar none.

I rest my case.

A) I don't consider a 6 round beating of a once dangerous 41 year old fighter an 'exciting' fight
2) I don't consider excessive holding very couragaeous
3) Totally disagree. Vitali is proving now he's definitely the superior fighter. Much more relaxed, better timing and judge of distance, better stamina and far superior chin/durability. Wladimir is the more fluid athlete and certainly has more speed and pop to his punches but that doesn't make him the better fighter.

Wladimir is the better tactician, as Joe Louis was a better tactician than Ali. Wladimir is faster, more fluid; only thing he lacks is a fighter to test his mettle and prove his status as a champion. Vitali has an iron chin and has the edge in power; however, Vitali came up short against the worst version of Lennox Lewis possible. Which shows his limitations as well.

Did Sanders and Brewster not 'test' Wlad's mettle?

That worst version of Lewis would've destroyed Wladimir within 3 embarassing rounds.

[Klee Gluckman]

Wlad would get his ass handed to him by:

Tyson: Tyson gets on the inside, this finishes early, Wlad panics good night.
Holyfield: Holyfield is getting beat down by Wlad, replay of the first Tyson fight and same result too.
Bowe: A big man who can fight on the inside and has the best skills of the giant. Wlad gets smashed here.
Foreman: Wlad gets starched early.
Lewis: Lewis would deal to him, a ruddock like scenario here.
Ali: Boxes wlads ears off.
Liston: Jabs Wlad to death.
Tua: Comes on late and catches Wlad.
Holmes: Can Jab better than Wlad, may get caught but recovers to win.
Frazier: Survives the early barrell and inflicts hell on wlad and ko's him late.
Vitali: Too tough for little bro.

Theres 11 who beat him head to head. Ruddock, Shavers, Williams, Macall, Bruno, Bonecrusher Smith, Witherspoon, Ike all have punchers chances too.

Theres 20 who I think could beat him and im sure ive missed some.

[HomicideHenry]

A) I don't consider a 6 round beating of a once dangerous 41 year old fighter an 'exciting' fight
2) I don't consider excessive holding very couragaeous
3) Totally disagree. Vitali is proving now he's definitely the superior fighter. Much more relaxed, better timing and judge of distance, better stamina and far superior chin/durability. Wladimir is the more fluid athlete and certainly has more speed and pop to his punches but that doesn't make him the better fighter.

Wladimir is the better tactician, as Joe Louis was a better tactician than Ali. Wladimir is faster, more fluid; only thing he lacks is a fighter to test his mettle and prove his status as a champion. Vitali has an iron chin and has the edge in power; however, Vitali came up short against the worst version of Lennox Lewis possible. Which shows his limitations as well.

Did Sanders and Brewster not 'test' Wlad's mettle?
That worst version of Lewis would've destroyed Wladimir within 3 embarassing rounds.

The way I see it is this; despite Wladimir's great amateur credentials and impressive record at those time frames in his career, he did have chinks in his armour when you put down the rose colored glasses and really looked at him---the McCline fight revealed, really, Jameel's limitations and the Byrd fight just showed what a good big man can do to a good little man. Other than that, all others were mere fodder for Klitschko, even Mercer. This showed, when he fought Sanders and Brewster, who came back harder when Klitschko pressed them. Up until that time, the only man tough enough to do so was the iron head Ross Purrity, whose no stranger anyways to pulling upsets.

Since then, though, Wladimir has showed great poise against those whose style is to press (easily handled Chagaev for example). Since then Wladimir has blown out power punchers (Rahman for example). Since then Wladimir has outboxed some of the more better tacticians (Ibragimov). He has grown in leaps and bounds since then. To compare Wladimir now to the Wladimir who lost to Sanders and Brewster, is like comparing the Jack Johnson who kayoed Burns to the Johnson who lost to Marvin Hart, or comparing the Joe Louis who kayoed Galento and those other bums to the Louis who was outsmarted and kayoed by Schmeling.

[Collins2000]

... Joe Louis who kayoed Galento and those other bums to the Louis who was outsmarted and kayoed by Schmeling.

Galento is a bum now?

Your disrespectful attitude to boxers makes me puke, Rufus.

[ThatOne]

I think Wlad could hold his own againt Patterson. The size differene is staggering. Don't forget Patterson won gold as a middleweight.

[dempseyfire]

Wladimir is the better tactician, as Joe Louis was a better tactician than Ali. Wladimir is faster, more fluid; only thing he lacks is a fighter to test his mettle and prove his status as a champion. Vitali has an iron chin and has the edge in power; however, Vitali came up short against the worst version of Lennox Lewis possible. Which shows his limitations as well.

Did Sanders and Brewster not 'test' Wlad's mettle?
That worst version of Lewis would've destroyed Wladimir within 3 embarassing rounds.

The way I see it is this; despite Wladimir's great amateur credentials and impressive record at those time frames in his career, he did have chinks in his armour when you put down the rose colored glasses and really looked at him---the McCline fight revealed, really, Jameel's limitations and the Byrd fight just showed what a good big man can do to a good little man. Other than that, all others were mere fodder for Klitschko, even Mercer. This showed, when he fought Sanders and Brewster, who came back harder when Klitschko pressed them. Up until that time, the only man tough enough to do so was the iron head Ross Purrity, whose no stranger anyways to pulling upsets.

Since then, though, Wladimir has showed great poise against those whose style is to press (easily handled Chagaev for example). Since then Wladimir has blown out power punchers (Rahman for example). Since then Wladimir has outboxed some of the more better tacticians (Ibragimov). He has grown in leaps and bounds since then. To compare Wladimir now to the Wladimir who lost to Sanders and Brewster, is like comparing the Jack Johnson who kayoed Burns to the Johnson who lost to Marvin Hart, or comparing the Joe Louis who kayoed Galento and those other bums to the Louis who was outsmarted and kayoed by Schmeling.

I disagree. Wlad's opponents have been awful. A completly shot, overweight Rahman a 'power puncher' . . .Rahman couldn't take out anyone with his power anymore b/c it took him 5 days to deliver a punch. Chagaev also is not a great pressure fighter . . .vs Wlad he just plodded forward, firing about 10 punches per round; Wlad couldn't have found a more willing dance partner on Match.com. To me Ibragimov is his most impressive scalp since winning the IBF title but put it in perspective this is the cautious Ibragimov who ran from a 45 year old Holyfield like he was a prime Tyson and when he was more aggressive went life and death with Ray Austin. And Wlad treated 'him' like he was a prime Tyson, barely throwing any power punches for fear of a Ibragimov counter-punch.

Wlad has improved his defense but hasn't fought anyone who is as dangerous as Sanders or who pressured him as much as Brewster did.

[HomicideHenry]

... Joe Louis who kayoed Galento and those other bums to the Louis who was outsmarted and kayoed by Schmeling.

Galento is a bum now?

Your disrespectful attitude to boxers makes me puke, Rufus.

Whether you like it or not Collins, Galento was considered at that time as apart of the 'Bum of The Month' tour. While I think he had probably the most lethal left hook at that time, and was undeniably one of the most dangerous and dirty fighters to fight---he didn't have no technique what so ever. Galento was, as wrestler Johnny Valentine once said, "scientifically rough".

[HomicideHenry]

I disagree. Wlad's opponents have been awful. A completly shot, overweight Rahman a 'power puncher' . . .Rahman couldn't take out anyone with his power anymore b/c it took him 5 days to deliver a punch. Chagaev also is not a great pressure fighter . . .vs Wlad he just plodded forward, firing about 10 punches per round; Wlad couldn't have found a more willing dance partner on Match.com. To me Ibragimov is his most impressive scalp since winning the IBF title but put it in perspective this is the cautious Ibragimov who ran from a 45 year old Holyfield like he was a prime Tyson and when he was more aggressive went life and death with Ray Austin. And Wlad treated 'him' like he was a prime Tyson, barely throwing any power punches for fear of a Ibragimov counter-punch.

Wlad has improved his defense but hasn't fought anyone who is as dangerous as Sanders or who pressured him as much as Brewster did.

Chagaev was rated #3 by RING magazine when Wladimir fought him. Chagaev was also considered by RING magazine as the man most likely to give Wladimir problems in the ring with his swarming style. A flash knockdown early, followed by nine rounds of the most one sided action this side of Holmes/Cobb presents all the proof necessary of Wladimir's ring generalship.

As far as Ibragimov. You right him off cus of the Holyfield fight? Maybe you're looking through rose colored glasses? Holyfield at 46 is still a top 25 HW, and was robbed against Valuev in his WBA title bid, and we all agree that Ibragimov is better than Valuev. Hindsight is 20/20 my friend, and boxing is a two way street---Ibragimov looked bad because Holyfield MADE him look bad.

As for Rahman, sure he's about the most inconsistant HW I have seen since Jack Sharkey, HOWEVER the man will be forever remembered for his ONE punch kayo of Lennox Lewis. Rahman, washed up or not, will always have a punchers chance at beating anyone. Whether we like it or not, he is a lineal HW champion, by proxy making him the most valuable opponent Wladimir's kayoed.

The Q I have for you is this: WHO at this moment and time could be able to defeat Wladimir in the top 10, 15, 20, or even 50? NOBODY COMES CLOSE. Not Haye, not Valuev, not Ruiz, not Arreola, not Chambers, NOBODY. The only man capable of doing the job is his damn brother Vitali.

[dempseyfire]

I disagree. Wlad's opponents have been awful. A completly shot, overweight Rahman a 'power puncher' . . .Rahman couldn't take out anyone with his power anymore b/c it took him 5 days to deliver a punch. Chagaev also is not a great pressure fighter . . .vs Wlad he just plodded forward, firing about 10 punches per round; Wlad couldn't have found a more willing dance partner on Match.com. To me Ibragimov is his most impressive scalp since winning the IBF title but put it in perspective this is the cautious Ibragimov who ran from a 45 year old Holyfield like he was a prime Tyson and when he was more aggressive went life and death with Ray Austin. And Wlad treated 'him' like he was a prime Tyson, barely throwing any power punches for fear of a Ibragimov counter-punch.

Wlad has improved his defense but hasn't fought anyone who is as dangerous as Sanders or who pressured him as much as Brewster did.

Chagaev was rated #3 by RING magazine when Wladimir fought him. Chagaev was also considered by RING magazine as the man most likely to give Wladimir problems in the ring with his swarming style. A flash knockdown early, followed by nine rounds of the most one sided action this side of Holmes/Cobb presents all the proof necessary of Wladimir's ring generalship.

As far as Ibragimov. You right him off cus of the Holyfield fight? Maybe you're looking through rose colored glasses? Holyfield at 46 is still a top 25 HW, and was robbed against Valuev in his WBA title bid, and we all agree that Ibragimov is better than Valuev. Hindsight is 20/20 my friend, and boxing is a two way street---Ibragimov looked bad because Holyfield MADE him look bad.

As for Rahman, sure he's about the most inconsistant HW I have seen since Jack Sharkey, HOWEVER the man will be forever remembered for his ONE punch kayo of Lennox Lewis. Rahman, washed up or not, will always have a punchers chance at beating anyone. Whether we like it or not, he is a lineal HW champion, by proxy making him the most valuable opponent Wladimir's kayoed.

The Q I have for you is this: WHO at this moment and time could be able to defeat Wladimir in the top 10, 15, 20, or even 50? NOBODY COMES CLOSE. Not Haye, not Valuev, not Ruiz, not Arreola, not Chambers, NOBODY. The only man capable of doing the job is his damn brother Vitali.

Haye certainly could. I think Povetkin and Chambers are both live underdogs. Wlad would be a heavy favorite vs almost anyone b.c the division is in the toilet.

Hasim Rahman??? The man is shotter than shot . . the Lewis KO was almost a DECADE ago! No-one put any stock in Wlad beating a has-been Hasim and rightfully so. In his previous fight he was getting rocked by everyone's favorite power puncher Zuri Lawrence!! That says it all . . .

I don't really care what the Ring thought . . .Chagaev had looked awful vs Skelton and Drummond and clearly amidst his illness and various injuries was slipping as a fighter. By plodding forward flatfooted and throwing about 10 punches per round Wlad had a more willing dance partner than he'd find in 'Dancing with the Stars' . . .

Holyfield was not so long ago embarassed by Larry Donald and James Toney. The man's reflexes started slipping over a decade ago . . .the fact that he gave Ibragimov a tough go and made him run away from and got robbed vs Valuev say MUCh more negative things about his opponents than it does of Evander, who is approaching frikkin' 50 YEARS OLD!! And anyway I was giving Ibragimov credit saying he was the best opponent he's beaten since winning the IBF title. But no-one will confuse a guy who stunk out the joint with an old Briggs and ancient Evander, and drew with Ray Austin, as anything close to a great fighter.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Haye will wipe the mat with the giant sissy. Unfortunately, I'm sure they will send Vitali after him to try and protect the fragile one.

And hank, you can't rate fighters without hindsight. But I called Chagaev & Sultan trash before, during and after the snoozers. Rahman was beyond shot, mentioning the guy who beat Lennox years earlier is a joke. But calling him Wlad's most valuable oponent is poignant. Wlad has accomplished nothing, nobody sane could rate him ahead of Jimmy Young.

But you're right about Wlad being the top guy now in an abysmal group of slobs. The real question is who cares? If Wlad retired tomorrow, I don't know anyone that would care. God knows I wouldn't, I wish he would retire after about 4 minutes of every lame fight he has. Watching guys beg to get put out of their misery and him refusing to do it because he is so afraid of getting hit. It's pathetic

[dempseyfire]

And hank, you can't rate fighters without hindsight. But I called Chagaev & Sultan trash before, during and after the snoozers. Rahman was beyond shot, mentioning the guy who beat Lennox years earlier is a joke. But calling him Wlad's most valuable oponent is poignant. Wlad has accomplished nothing, nobody sane could rate him ahead of Jimmy Young.

I certainly wouldn't. That's the thing . . . despite Wlad's fancy looking list of title defenses and undefeated records beaten, I'll take wins over the likes of Foreman, Lyle and shoul've-been wins over Ali and Shavers (and a nip/tuck affair with Norton) along with all of Young's losses after he slipped into drug addiction anyday over 20 Jameel McClines and Calvin Brocks . . .

That said, I think it's harsh to say he's "accomplished nothing". He's clearly one of the two best Heavyweights of the post-Lewis era, and despite doing it through an AWFUL style to watch, did comeback from two embarassing defeats when many had written him off completly. He's a very good fighter. Just not a great one.

[HomicideHenry]

H2H Wladimir defeats Jimmy Young. Why? Because for all intents and purposes Young fought a helluva lot like Chris Byrd, and Wlad beat him twice. Young defeated a mentally shot Foreman, a physical wreak named Ali, and lost to Norton. Against a man of Wlad's size and skills, Young dont stand much of a chance IMO.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

LOL, now you're getting into career phases? Young was better than Byrd and I don't see how he fought like a southpaw anyway.

Jimmy matches up better with Vitali, no doubt in my mind he beats him. Wlad's reluctant nature would probably get him a decision win. None of that changes that Young is the more accomplished fighter.

[Collins2000]

H2H Wladimir defeats Jimmy Young. Why? Because for all intents and purposes Young fought a helluva lot like Chris Byrd, and Wlad beat him twice. Young defeated a mentally shot Foreman, a physical wreak named Ali, and lost to Norton. Against a man of Wlad's size and skills, Young dont stand much of a chance IMO.

Young on his best night would have stood Klit2 on his head.

[HomicideHenry]

LOL, now you're getting into career phases? Young was better than Byrd and I don't see how he fought like a southpaw anyway.

Jimmy matches up better with Vitali, no doubt in my mind he beats him. Wlad's reluctant nature would probably get him a decision win. None of that changes that Young is the more accomplished fighter.

Based on what exactly? His decision 'loss' to Ali who was lightyears away from the fighter he once was? His win over Foreman where he ran away 90% of the time? His split decision loss to Norton? DONT GET ME WRONG---I think Young was one of the most under-rated heavyweights in history, HOWEVER, he was ALWAYS a rung or two behind the true elite. I think a giant with the speed, and tactical skills of Klitschko takes him apart inside 12 rounds.

[HomicideHenry]

H2H Wladimir defeats Jimmy Young. Why? Because for all intents and purposes Young fought a helluva lot like Chris Byrd, and Wlad beat him twice. Young defeated a mentally shot Foreman, a physical wreak named Ali, and lost to Norton. Against a man of Wlad's size and skills, Young dont stand much of a chance IMO.

Young on his best night would have stood Klit2 on his head.

A man with a knockout ratio of less then 20% isnt gonna do shit to Klitschko, no matter how questionable his chin has been in the past. What dope are you smoking Collins? AND PLEASE, pass that on!

[Collins2000]

LOL, now you're getting into career phases? Young was better than Byrd and I don't see how he fought like a southpaw anyway.

Jimmy matches up better with Vitali, no doubt in my mind he beats him. Wlad's reluctant nature would probably get him a decision win. None of that changes that Young is the more accomplished fighter.

Based on what exactly? His decision 'loss' to Ali who was lightyears away from the fighter he once was? His win over Foreman where he ran away 90% of the time? His split decision loss to Norton? DONT GET ME WRONG---I think Young was one of the most under-rated heavyweights in history, HOWEVER, he was ALWAYS a rung or two behind the true elite. I think a giant with the speed, and tactical skills of Klitschko takes him apart inside 12 rounds.

Are we talking about the same guy here? Big eastern european bloke with stamina problems and a glass chin?

[Collins2000]

H2H Wladimir defeats Jimmy Young. Why? Because for all intents and purposes Young fought a helluva lot like Chris Byrd, and Wlad beat him twice. Young defeated a mentally shot Foreman, a physical wreak named Ali, and lost to Norton. Against a man of Wlad's size and skills, Young dont stand much of a chance IMO.

Young on his best night would have stood Klit2 on his head.

A man with a knockout ratio of less then 20% isnt gonna do poop to Klitschko, no matter how questionable his chin has been in the past. What dope are you smoking Collins? AND PLEASE, pass that on!

Hilarious stuff.

Do you actually watch fights, Rufus?

[HomicideHenry]

Stamina problems? Since WHEN?

Glass jaw? When was the last time ANYONE come close to tapping Wlad on the damn chin? Brewster? That was years ago! Sanders? Again that was years ago!

[HomicideHenry]

Young on his best night would have stood Klit2 on his head.

A man with a knockout ratio of less then 20% isnt gonna do poop to Klitschko, no matter how questionable his chin has been in the past. What dope are you smoking Collins? AND PLEASE, pass that on!

Hilarious stuff.

Do you actually watch fights, Rufus?

Sometimes I think of asking you the same Q but then I realize it isnt worth it.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

LOL, now you're getting into career phases? Young was better than Byrd and I don't see how he fought like a southpaw anyway.

Jimmy matches up better with Vitali, no doubt in my mind he beats him. Wlad's reluctant nature would probably get him a decision win. None of that changes that Young is the more accomplished fighter.

Based on what exactly? His decision 'loss' to Ali who was lightyears away from the fighter he once was? His win over Foreman where he ran away 90% of the time? His split decision loss to Norton? DONT GET ME WRONG---I think Young was one of the most under-rated heavyweights in history, HOWEVER, he was ALWAYS a rung or two behind the true elite. I think a giant with the speed, and tactical skills of Klitschko takes him apart inside 12 rounds.

Close losses to those guys are better than any of Wladimir's wins. Wlad does not have a single win worth talking about. Not sure how many times you need to hear it. He accomplished more in his wins and his losses. That Ali was definitely past his best and light years better than anybody Wlad has ever fought.

He put Foreman on his ass and you're going to talk about running when you're backing a gigantic ruiz clone? That's just too freaking funny.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Stamina problems? Since WHEN?

Glass jaw? When was the last time ANYONE come close to tapping Wlad on the damn chin? Brewster? That was years ago! Sanders? Again that was years ago!

Exactly, the next time he fights someone who has a punch and tries, that glass chin and weak in the knees fear will resurface. Haye destroys this bozo.

[HomicideHenry]

Wladimir fights nothing like Ruiz Ruiz clinch rate is higher than Ali's punch rate ffs

AGAIN, what dope are u two smoking? AND PLEASE pass it on!

ANDDDDDDDDDDD.....Haye/Wladimir will look like Hide/Vitali TRUST

If Haye couldnt fight better than Holyfield done against the human skyscraper Valuev, theres no chance in hell he's getting passed the piston-like jab of Wladimir Klitschko. AND WHEN I AM RIGHT COLLINS, YOU WILL APOLOGISE TO ME!