Who would have won?

Crease · Post by **Crease** » 22 Feb 2010, 20:47

After viewing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYulCtjkCvQ
I asked myself the question...
Who would have won?

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 22 Feb 2010, 21:42

Johnson certainly had no interest in finding out.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 22 Feb 2010, 22:03

Johnson.

Langford would lack the skill and speed advantage he had over most of his HW adversaries. And people always bring up Jack's 30 lb weight advantage in their first fight (185-156) but if they'd fought in 1910 the weight pull would've been the same as they both developed further as they started eating better and making more money (it would've been 208-178 approx.) Johnson in their first fight didn't overwhelm him by size, he took Langford apart with speed and smarts.

SFW · Post by **SFW** » 22 Feb 2010, 22:07

dempseyfire wrote:Johnson.

Langford would lack the skill and speed advantage he had over most of his HW adversaries. And people always bring up Jack's 30 lb weight advantage in their first fight (185-156) but if they'd fought in 1910 the weight pull would've been the same as they both developed further as they started eating better and making more money (it would've been 208-178 approx.) Johnson in their first fight didn't overwhelm him by size, he took Langford apart with speed and smarts.

Langford.

Johnson escaped with a win over him and did/said anything he could to not fight him again.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 22 Feb 2010, 22:10

Sam Langford's getting cheated out of his rightful chance at the heavyweight title by Jack Johnson while Johnson fought far inferior fighters is one of the most disgusting episodes in boxing history.

SFW · Post by **SFW** » 22 Feb 2010, 22:15

granberry wrote:Sam Langford's getting cheated out of his rightful chance at the heavyweight title by Jack Johnson while Johnson fought far inferior fighters is one of the most disgusting episodes in boxing history.

Exactly. And one of the most overlooked and forgotten ones too.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 22 Feb 2010, 23:03

Langford would have destroyed Johnson.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 23 Feb 2010, 00:21

I really would favour Langford, given the choice. Something tells me Johnson might've been inclined to agree with me, in his quieter moments.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 23 Feb 2010, 00:29

Langford. He was the superior fighter in almost every way. The first time they fought it was Johnson's toughest bout to date, and Langford weighed no more than 156 pounds. A peak Langford was the one splitting fights with the gigantic Harry Wills. THAT version of Langford beats Johnson any day of the week.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 23 Feb 2010, 05:23

Probably Johnson

Johnson would win more times than he lost. He'd close the fight down and although the moments of drama and excitement would come from Sam it would be Johnson.

I have Johnson in the top 3 HWs and I wouldn't pick many to beat him.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 23 Feb 2010, 05:50

Ezzard wrote:Probably Johnson

Johnson would win more times than he lost. He'd close the fight down and although the moments of drama and excitement would come from Sam it would be Johnson.

I have Johnson in the top 3 HWs and I wouldn't pick many to beat him.

I used to have Johnson in my top 5 years ago. HOWEVER, the more film I watch, the less convinced I am of his abilities. The film is completely opposite from all the books I've read, all the newspaper reports I have read, etc. Johnson clinched almost as many times as Ruiz, I rarely see any speed or action in his fights, he was floored by middleweights, etc.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 23 Feb 2010, 06:32

HomicideHenry wrote:
Ezzard wrote:Probably Johnson

Johnson would win more times than he lost. He'd close the fight down and although the moments of drama and excitement would come from Sam it would be Johnson.

I have Johnson in the top 3 HWs and I wouldn't pick many to beat him.
I used to have Johnson in my top 5 years ago. HOWEVER, the more film I watch, the less convinced I am of his abilities. The film is completely opposite from all the books I've read, all the newspaper reports I have read, etc. Johnson clinched almost as many times as Ruiz, I rarely see any speed or action in his fights, he was floored by middleweights, etc.

His techniques and style were suited to the times in which he fought. He did clinch a lot and maul at times but guys like Ali (more in the 70s) and Hopkins did/do a version of this adapted to their own times.

Dropped by a MW but not dropped by Jeffries or any of his other challengers. And after Ketchel put him down Johnson finished the fight with his next punch.

pound per pound · Post by **pound per pound** » 23 Feb 2010, 07:28

Langford's performances on film, and in news print are better. His results vs the same opponents when Johnson was champion are also much better. I think Langford would out hit and out work Johnson from 1908-1915, which is why Johnson avoided the match. There were some big deal money offers for Johnson. He passed each time.

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 23 Feb 2010, 10:51

Glad to see a thread that shines the light on this.

What Johnson did in denying Langford his rightful shot at the title diminishes Johnson's overall standing hugely.

raylawpc · Post by **raylawpc** » 23 Feb 2010, 11:38

Boston Globe account (April 27, 1906) of Johnson-Langford:

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 23 Feb 2010, 12:02

Johnson always lacked bigtime punching power.

His fight with 156-pound Langford took place 2 years AFTER Jeffries had retired.

Johnson couldn't stop Marvin Hart, 156-pound Langford, took forever with the much smaller Tommy Burns, tried hard to KO Willard and couldn't (compare Dempsey against the same Willard). A real puncher would have stopped decrepit Jeffries long before the 15 rounds it took Johnson, who just waited until Jeffries legs were completely gone.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 23 Feb 2010, 12:12

SFW wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:Johnson.

Langford would lack the skill and speed advantage he had over most of his HW adversaries. And people always bring up Jack's 30 lb weight advantage in their first fight (185-156) but if they'd fought in 1910 the weight pull would've been the same as they both developed further as they started eating better and making more money (it would've been 208-178 approx.) Johnson in their first fight didn't overwhelm him by size, he took Langford apart with speed and smarts.
Langford.

Johnson escaped with a win over him and did/said anything he could to not fight him again.

Johnson didn't 'scrape' by Langford, he dominated their match. Langford's manager years later tried to spread lies about Sam having knocked Johnson down and deserved the decision but the modern newspaper accounts disprove all that. The report Ray posted is the kinder one to Langford, I've read another which described the bout as a one-sided beating.

And Johnson had true punching power, but had a style in which he didn't often go for the knockout. That's like saying Dick Tiger lacked KO power b/c his KO percentage is so low. Jack loved to slowly drain guys out.

You bringing up Hart exposes your ignorance. Hart had an iron jaw and was never stopped once in his prime . . his 1907 TKO was due to a broken wrist. He was only stopped once very early in his career when he was completly green and then at the tail end of his career.

Jefferies was only stopped once, by Johnson.

Willard was only stopped once in his first career, by Dempsey, at 38 years old and having not fought in two years. At his peak he consistently showed a cast iron chin

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 23 Feb 2010, 12:51

Johnson was not a big puncher.

His record shows that clearly.

Perhaps dempsey can write to the Boston Globe and demand that they change the account written the day after the Langford-Johnson fight.

LOL

granberry · Post by **granberry** » 23 Feb 2010, 13:02

dempseyfire wrote:
Jefferies was only stopped once, by Johnson.

CORRECTION:
___________________________________________
Jefferies was only stopped once,

after being retired for SIX years,

losing close to 100 pounds,

and having no warmup fights to see if he even could fight at all

---by Johnson.
___________________________________________

And it took non puncher Johnson FIFTEEN rounds to stop the shell of Jeffries.

If the situation had been reversed

i.e. Johnson having been retired for SIX years, losing close to 100 pounds, and having no warmup fights

and facing Jeffries in Jeffries' prime

Jeffries would have gotten rid of Johnson in one round.

Adamj1987 · Post by **Adamj1987** » 23 Feb 2010, 15:10

johnson early in there careers but langford post johnson winning the world title