big upset in sheffield this evening...

dondada
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by dondada »

MachoMan09 wrote:
The gutter-media can be blamed for a lot of this. Chris Morris' outstanding 'Paedageddon' highlighted this better than anything I can remember.
Absolutely on the first bit. But, you know what - that Chris Morris programme is the only programme I've ever turned off in disgust? I'm all for satire, a big fan, but that just didn't do it for me. Weird, I know.

The other thing that you might not realise is the complicity of some parents in killing their own kids - the idiotic, work shy people shoving chips through the school fence in Rotherham being a good example. And writing lying notes to their kids' PE teachers. If you think cross country was bad in our day, you wouldn't believe your eyes now. Some kids are great, obviously, but others literally can not jog 50 yards - I kid you not.
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by oliverfennell »

Spud wrote:then when they are challenged why boxing is not written about too much in the papers they come out with the weak and spineless excuse of "The Editor" will not allow it. [/i]
Spud, I have talked to you about this before, most recently by PM, which you characterstically ignored, despite beginning the correspondence. The only time you shut up is when someone puts to you something that you can't argue with, and rather than admit that, you just go schtum.

In a newspaper, the editor is the boss. That's it. No matter how much "crusading" a noble (or spineless) journalist does on boxing's behalf, the editor has the final say. In any job, the boss has the final say and no amount of lobbying is going to change that. Consider also that as much as we love boxing, for every one of us there will be a journalist-fan of any other sport wishing that their sport too would get more prominence. At the end of the day, the editor will go with what sells best. That's the way it is, and I'm not saying I like or condone it, but the point is you're talking out of your arse if you think the scarcity of boxing coverage in newspapers is the fault of "spineless" journalists.
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by oliverfennell »

Spud wrote:Lets deal with the journalist issue - I have always argued if a journalist decides to write something then all he needs to do is get approval for the article from his Editor. It is the publications like newspapers which create public interest - the public do not necessarily always demand certain types of article their interest is generated or fuelled by the journalist writing the article in the first place - thus why cant the journalist do that for boxing???

A very simplistic argument - but a very true one!!!
A very simplistic argument indeed - and a totally ignorant one!!!

Staff newspaper journalists do not have the luxury of writing freely about whatever takes their fancy. In most instances, they write about what they are told to write about. Particularly in sports, where there is a fixed calendar of events on any given day, their shift will be tailored to that. Do you honestly think an editor will see there's 6 x footy matches, 2 x rugby matches, a cricket match and an F1 race that day will be content for one of his charges to while away his day penning 1,000 words on Kevin Buckley?

Freelance journalists are another matter. They do as you say - write the piece first, then offer it to an editor. However they hold NO sway over the editor's decision-making and unless they have a serious reputation (e.g Bunce), they're going to face competition from several others for precious feature space. Furthermore, since those who freelance full time do it to make a living, then naturally they are going to write articles that have a better chance of publication.
oliverfennell
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by oliverfennell »

Spud wrote:Steve Lillis and Steve Bunce manage to get their articles into the "Sundays" so why cant more be done ??

Frank W arren seems to get his weekly article in and Colin Hart seems to get his weekly in to - are you saying those articles are top quality and generate a lot of interest?
Simple. Name value is important to Joe Public. The average reader is more likely to read something by a name he recognises.

Please stop commenting on business practices you clearly have no understanding of. The likes of myself and Deserter are publishing professionals and yet you continue to insist that you know more about our own lines of work than you do.
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by rhino222 »

MachoMan09 wrote:
Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
MachoMan09 wrote:Are the kids at school still as mad for football as back in the day, Ian?
I've taught in a girls' school for the past five years but some of them are mad keen.

It's about playing...kids will miss a game for the team they support any time if it means them having a kickabout themselves.
I just worry about the games consoles keeping the kids indoors rather than going out for a game of footy or whatever.
surely the way forward is waterproof games consoles with a vertican thick telescopic like structure, the extends to 3 feet and can be used as a goalpost, i know this would mean the kids would need 2 consoles as goalposts but hey, im sure you get my drift, would also be handy as a rounders base.

shall i go on dragons den?
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by rhino222 »

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
MachoMan09 wrote:
The gutter-media can be blamed for a lot of this. Chris Morris' outstanding 'Paedageddon' highlighted this better than anything I can remember.
Absolutely on the first bit. But, you know what - that Chris Morris programme is the only programme I've ever turned off in disgust? I'm all for satire, a big fan, but that just didn't do it for me. Weird, I know.

The other thing that you might not realise is the complicity of some parents in killing their own kids - the idiotic, work shy people shoving chips through the school fence in Rotherham being a good example. And writing lying notes to their kids' PE teachers. If you think cross country was bad in our day, you wouldn't believe your eyes now. Some kids are great, obviously, but others literally can not jog 50 yards - I kid you not.
how do they get the vinegar on? .... :oo
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by Spud »

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Fennell - keep taking the bait you ****!!!

I briefed people on here by PM and verbally what topics I was going to write about - it is you who is the prize **** - your endless quest to belitttle me in anyway you can is really quite pathetic - despite your protests that you find nothing in my threads or posts of interest or anything at all to reply to - it is you who takes the bait every single time - what a complete knob you are - now off you go and bully your lady boy you b*tch!!!

Have some fun in your reply - I wont respond as going on another holiday as my work on here is done!!! :TU:
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by Spud »

oliverfennell wrote: Please stop commenting on business practices you clearly have no understanding of. The likes of myself and Deserter are publishing professionals and yet you continue to insist that you know more about our own lines of work than you do.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Just before I go - are you including your never ending quest in trying to make it on boxing reporting on the internet - or would you be including your failed website - so in reality you are as sh*t as me!!! :lol: :lol: - you really are as bad as anyone other person who has FAILED in your futile attempts as everything on the net you have taken part in with regards boxing has failed.

Now please - let me enjoy another holiday.
Last edited by Spud on 23 Feb 2010, 16:43, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by Collins2000 »

Oliver's posts on boxing and the press seem more in touch with reality than anything Spudly has written on the subject.

Maybe Spud should stick to writing about the areas he knows best ie putting out chairs, sweeping the floor and making sure there is bog roll in the crapper.

:D
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by Collins2000 »

Spud wrote: I briefed people on here by PM and verbally what topics I was going to write about
How exciting , maestro.

I look forward to many entertaining tales about arranging chairs in the local sports centre for maximum viewing effect.
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by oliverfennell »

Spud wrote::lol: :lol: :lol:

Fennell - keep taking the bait you ****!!!

I briefed people on here by PM and verbally what topics I was going to write about - it is you who is the prize **** - your endless quest to belitttle me in anyway you can is really quite pathetic - despite your protests that you find nothing in my threads or posts of interest or anything at all to reply to - it is you who takes the bait every single time - what a complete knob you are - now off you go and bully your lady boy you b*tch!!!

Have some fun in your reply - I wont respond as going on another holiday as my work on here is done!!! :TU:
I see, hurl insults at someone who tells you from professional experience how things work, because it contrasts your view of how things should be done.

Listen, I agree with you completely that boxing would benefit handsomely from more press coverage and nobody would be happier than me if that were to happen. The difference between you and I, though, is that I understand the reasons for the situation as it exists now, and I'm not naive enough to think that a journalist shouting the odds to his boss is all that needs to be done to change things.

Anyway, to your criticisms.

1) I'm not "taking the bait", I'm commenting from my own experiences about a side of boxing coverage which you have raised. I happen to believe your points are invalid, and I'm merely pointing out why. You get riled because I disagree with you, and you may question my tone in my replies, yet it is you who goes about calling people "spineless" in the first instance.

Anyway, what is your purpose of being on this board, Spud? You used to insist it was for the good of boxing. Now you're saying it's "bait"?? Posting things merely for a reaction is what's known as "trolling". So either you're admitting to being a troll, in which case you've just invalidated your claims to be seeking the betterment of the sport, or you're just claiming it's "bait" AFTER the fact because there are people who disagree with you.

Get over yourself, Spud. Nobody disagrees with what you say because YOU said it. There's no agenda. This whole forum is full of people who agree or disagree on any number of things, for any number of reasons. What makes you think you're so special that people will adjust their world views just so as to get at you? Please. For my part, on the subject of boxing in the press, my disagreement with what you say has nothing to do with personal reasons, I'm just telling you how the business works so as you might consider other ways of going about things in your quest for a higher profile for boxing.

2) "The endless quest to belittle you" - again, it's nothing personal and you credit yourself far too highly. On this same subject, I love how you say those who disagree with or criticise you as seeking to "fit in", as if our lives would somehow be validated by holding the same opinions as a bunch of mostly strangers with pseudonyms. Maybe it's more a case of no smoke without fire... when so many people are saying the same kinds of things, there must be som truth to it all.

It's YOU who makes things confrontational. It's fine and even admirable that you have all these ideas on how to improve boxing. Nobody's going to criticise you for brainstorming. But why do you have to force these ideas down everyone's throat like they're the ONLY way, and you're the first person to have ever thought of them, and anyone who disagrees is an idiot and an enemy. You did a similar thing on the Rhodes-Moore 24/7 thread, dismissing people who KNOW about broadcast media who were telling you specifically why it wouldn't work.

3) You won't reply, eh? Well, there's a surprise. Perhaps you pre-empted that I might say something you don't have an answer for.
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by oliverfennell »

Spud wrote:
oliverfennell wrote: Please stop commenting on business practices you clearly have no understanding of. The likes of myself and Deserter are publishing professionals and yet you continue to insist that you know more about our own lines of work than you do.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Just before I go - are you including your never ending quest in trying to make it on boxing reporting on the internet - or would you be including your failed website - so in reality you are as sh*t as me!!! :lol: :lol: - you really are as bad as anyone other person who has FAILED in your futile attempts as everything on the net you have taken part in with regards boxing has failed.

Now please - let me enjoy another holiday.
No, I would not include my boxing reporting on the internet. I work full time in an editorial capacity for a national newspaper and have worked in the field for a decade. But hey, what do I know about publishing, eh?

As it happens, any boxing writing I have done has been very much along the lines of when and if I've wanted to do it. I don't have a "never ending quest to make it". I'm happy with my portfolio and I'm also happy with my day job. I haven't "failed", because I've never set out to do more than what I have actually achieved.

And on that theme, my website did not "fail". I closed it of my own accord because I left the country. That's a BIG difference to a website closing down because one of its founders went on almighty, foul-mouthed, libelous, public rant against one of the country's most important promoters.
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by dondada »

oliverfennell wrote:
1) I'm not "taking the bait"
I'm afraid you are, old chap. As mental as it sounds, Spud did indeed ring me up saying he was back to, how shall I put it, 'create discussion' and his first target would be journalists. He was going to slag me off, etc...

It takes a while but you just get used to dealing with him. I like him. He's mental, obviously, but deep down there he does care for boxing a lot.

He's not a troll per se because he actually does do threads and make posts which are genuine - though in this particular instance you might have a point.

You are bringing things like logic, experience and sense to this debate. The point is, the premise of it was to piss you/others off.
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by oliverfennell »

Thanks, Ian. I understand and appreciate that Spud has a passion for the betterment of the sport; that cannot be denied. But creating threads for the sole purpose of winding people up? That's simply immature, and while far from unusual online, does nothing to further his crusade of boosting the sport's profile.

There could even be merit in stirring up passions through application of a certain style/language, if it spurs genuine debate, but where is the benefit of raising points, and then simply running down anyone who disagrees, especially if they do so with informed opinion?

Well, as you say, the point was to piss people off. Very helpful, that!

I know Spud is not a troll per se, but by definition of the term, what he has done fits the bill entirely. So, either he's a troll or he simply cannot accept a differing viewpoint. I'd suggest neither of those should be welcome on a serious discussion board.
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by stujones »

Very dignified response there Oliver.
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by jonp »

Iv spoke to spud at a show and on facebook and he comes across as sound but these last few posts have made me wonder whats up.
Putting Bait out to annoy people and see how they respond then when they do respond pissed off slagging them off?

Sending pms to people telling hes putting bait out how are the people sends em to responding because im pretty sure all id say is
"why on earth"

Spud im just wondering why ,this is someone whos spoke to you in a friendly way and has no axe to grind and is telling you to the general public it makes you look very petty.
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by Deserter »

jonp wrote:Iv spoke to spud at a show and on facebook and he comes across as sound but these last few posts have made me wonder whats up.
Putting Bait out to annoy people and see how they respond then when they do respond pissed off slagging them off?

Sending pms to people telling hes putting bait out how are the people sends em to responding because im pretty sure all id say is
"why on earth"

Spud im just wondering why ,this is someone whos spoke to you in a friendly way and has no axe to grind and is telling you to the general public it makes you look very petty.
x2. Thought the diatribe you directed at Oliver was pathetic and completely uncalled for Spud.
He's already addressed the issue of his website, but I find it incredible that you'd gloat over someone else's perceived "failures", especially when those efforts involve trying to contribute more to the sport you profess to love.
All the truly successful people in life 'fail' - it's because they're brave enough to try in the first place rather than the likes of those hiding away on the internet sniping away at others who don't dare try anything positive.

I'll leave you with a quote to ponder:
"It's only through failure that we can learn... It's through failure that we become more resilient and stronger. And if you look at the life of any successful person, they've always had major as well as minor failures."
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by ERIC GUY »

spudio will never learn, as mr King tried to show by a 'helping hand', but when you meet him face to face, you will find he really is a nice guy, and you can help him by grabbing a few chairs and help setting the veue up, and grabbing a brush, that way, he has more time to play on his computer.
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by oliverfennell »

Thanks for the support, guys, but a word of warning. It has been brought to my attention that anyone who has sided with me here is at risk of being deleted from Spud's Facebook friends. I know of at least one person this has happened to, and it pains me to think that such heartbreak may be wrought on others. Please accept my sincerest apologies should such a harrowing event befall anyone else.

On a more serious note, I wouldn't hold my breath in anticipation of any reply from Spud. He loves to stir debate - until such cases as the majority disagree with him and he doesn't have an answer for it, when he will let the subject drop and fade away.
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by Deserter »

oliverfennell wrote:it pains me to think that such heartbreak may be wrought on others. Please accept my sincerest apologies should such a harrowing event befall anyone else.
Too late :verysad: :verysad: I'll never recover from this...
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by ArtOfWar »

You can't blame Spud, everyone knows his game and it get's people talking. There is not much else to talk about at the minute.
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by oliverfennell »

Deserter wrote:
oliverfennell wrote:it pains me to think that such heartbreak may be wrought on others. Please accept my sincerest apologies should such a harrowing event befall anyone else.
Too late :verysad: :verysad: I'll never recover from this...
I guess this is how he gets his revenge now that he no longer has the option of banning people from forums for having the audacity to disagree with him.
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by Counter-puncher »

stujones wrote:Very dignified response there Oliver.
x2 fair play Oliver :TU:
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Re: big upset in sheffield this evening...

Post by Spud »

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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