CURTIS COKES

[granberry]

"During the recent series of the United States Championship Boxing Matches on ABC, several of the ring announcers described looping right hand blows as right hooks. There are no such punches as right hooks for the right-handed fighter and those who really know boxing understand that those alleged right hooks are round house rights or sweeping right hands."

I can only assume you missed this question, so I'll repeat it.

Why no mention of El Feo's struggles to make 47 before the Cokes fight? Anything other than convenience? He hadn't fought under 47 in a while and he never did again. So by your own logic, Cokes win "means nothing".

Cokes weighed 160 for his very next fight after losing at 147 lb to Napoles.

Rodriguez weight 149 1/4 for his very next fight after losing to Curtis Cokes.

Look it up.

[dempseyfire]

Unlike you I've actually thrown punches in a ring. One of those being a right hook. And I won't take the words of Curtis Cokes as gospel, especially when it goes against conventional logic. How about you attempt to explain to me how a right hook is impossible to throw rather than repeating your stupid quote 1000 times.

[granberry]

Unlike you I've actually thrown punches in a ring. One of those being a right hook. And I won't take the words of Curtis Cokes as gospel, especially when it goes against conventional logic. How about you attempt to explain to me how a right hook is impossible to throw rather than repeating your stupid quote 1000 times.

dempsey would punch himself in the face if he threw a hooking punch with his right hand with his left foot and left arm out in front in a standard orthodox boxing stance.

I will take the words of Curtis Cokes as correct,

since they are correct.

That's what most of the clueless do when they post about "boxing" on the internet---punch themselves in the face.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

"During the recent series of the United States Championship Boxing Matches on ABC, several of the ring announcers described looping right hand blows as right hooks. There are no such punches as right hooks for the right-handed fighter and those who really know boxing understand that those alleged right hooks are round house rights or sweeping right hands."

I can only assume you missed this question, so I'll repeat it.

Why no mention of El Feo's struggles to make 47 before the Cokes fight? Anything other than convenience? He hadn't fought under 47 in a while and he never did again. So by your own logic, Cokes win "means nothing".

Cokes weighed 160 for his very next fight after losing at 147 lb to Napoles.

Rodriguez weight 149 1/4 for his very next fight after losing to Curtis Cokes.

Look it up.

Rodriguez hadn't fought at Welter in a while and never did again. He obviously had outgrown the weight class. I'm not trying to discount Cokes victory, but you went to great lengths to shit on other similar scenarios in the exact same post.

Not that I expect to read anything objective from you. but you usually cover your bases better than that. You should have looked it up before you posted.

[raylawpc]

I can only assume you missed this question, so I'll repeat it.

Why no mention of El Feo's struggles to make 47 before the Cokes fight? Anything other than convenience? He hadn't fought under 47 in a while and he never did again. So by your own logic, Cokes win "means nothing".

Cokes weighed 160 for his very next fight after losing at 147 lb to Napoles.

Rodriguez weight 149 1/4 for his very next fight after losing to Curtis Cokes.

Look it up.

Rodriguez hadn't fought at Welter in a while and never did again. He obviously had outgrown the weight class. I'm not trying to discount Cokes victory, but you went to great lengths to poop on other similar scenarios in the exact same post.

Not that I expect to read anything objective from you. but you usually cover your bases better than that. You should have looked it up before you posted.

Rodriguez was a top ranked welterweight until AFTER the Cokes fight. He was continually ranked as one of the top two or three welterweights in the world through 1966. He did not begin campaigning as a middleweight until after losing the Cokes fight.

[BoxBuzz]

Apparently the experts disagree. The controversy continues! I think I agree with granberry. Which probably means I need to go back and review this more carefully.

I'm still of the opinion that in an orthodox stance you would not typically refer to a right hand thrown, as a hook, under most imaginable circumstances.

[Woller]

According to "Boxing Illustrated" Rodriguez said after the Cokes fight: "Making the weight killed me, I will never fight at 147 again"

Woller

[Collins2000]

Apparently the experts disagree. The controversy continues! I think I agree with granberry. Which probably means I need to go back and review this more carefully.

I'm still of the opinion that in an orthodox stance you would not typically refer to a right hand thrown, as a hook, under most imaginable circumstances.

You might not typically refer to it as a hook. But that is what it is, Buzz.

As the bard said, a rose by any other name..

[jaclem2]

...my own post on the right hook discussion is NOT an argument...it is an explanation.

[Collins2000]

...my own post on the right hook discussion is NOT an argument...it is an explanation.

It seemed like mere opinion to me, mate.

What's your background that makes you the authority on the subject?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Cokes weighed 160 for his very next fight after losing at 147 lb to Napoles.

Rodriguez weight 149 1/4 for his very next fight after losing to Curtis Cokes.

Look it up.

Rodriguez hadn't fought at Welter in a while and never did again. He obviously had outgrown the weight class. I'm not trying to discount Cokes victory, but you went to great lengths to poop on other similar scenarios in the exact same post.

Not that I expect to read anything objective from you. but you usually cover your bases better than that. You should have looked it up before you posted.

Rodriguez was a top ranked welterweight until AFTER the Cokes fight. He was continually ranked as one of the top two or three welterweights in the world through 1966. He did not begin campaigning as a middleweight until after losing the Cokes fight.

Ranked and fighting in a weight class are two different things. He most certainly was campaigning as a Middleweight before the Cokes fight. That is indisputable, he came back down for the Cokes fight. It's Boxrec you know, feel free to look it up.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

According to "Boxing Illustrated" Rodriguez said after the Cokes fight: "Making the weight killed me, I will never fight at 147 again"

Woller

Yup, and he never did. He dropped back for a title fight. Incredible that somebody tried to say he didn't. Even Granberry doesn't deny those facts.

[raylawpc]

Rodriguez hadn't fought at Welter in a while and never did again. He obviously had outgrown the weight class. I'm not trying to discount Cokes victory, but you went to great lengths to poop on other similar scenarios in the exact same post.

Not that I expect to read anything objective from you. but you usually cover your bases better than that. You should have looked it up before you posted.

Rodriguez was a top ranked welterweight until AFTER the Cokes fight. He was continually ranked as one of the top two or three welterweights in the world through 1966. He did not begin campaigning as a middleweight until after losing the Cokes fight.

Ranked and fighting in a weight class are two different things. He most certainly was campaigning as a Middleweight before the Cokes fight. That is indisputable, he came back down for the Cokes fight. It's Boxrec you know, feel free to look it up.

I did look it up. I was also alive back then. Rodriguez was campaigning as a welterweight until after the loss to Cokes. Period.

[raylawpc]

According to "Boxing Illustrated" Rodriguez said after the Cokes fight: "Making the weight killed me, I will never fight at 147 again"

Woller

Yup, and he never did.

Rodriguez campaigned as a middleweight after the Cokes loss, not before. Nobody is disputing that.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Rodriguez was a top ranked welterweight until AFTER the Cokes fight. He was continually ranked as one of the top two or three welterweights in the world through 1966. He did not begin campaigning as a middleweight until after losing the Cokes fight.

Ranked and fighting in a weight class are two different things. He most certainly was campaigning as a Middleweight before the Cokes fight. That is indisputable, he came back down for the Cokes fight. It's Boxrec you know, feel free to look it up.

I did look it up. I was also alive back then. Rodriguez was campaigning as a welterweight until after the loss to Cokes. Period.

If you looked it up, I'd change the prescription on your glasses. You're completely wrong, period.

[raylawpc]

Ranked and fighting in a weight class are two different things. He most certainly was campaigning as a Middleweight before the Cokes fight. That is indisputable, he came back down for the Cokes fight. It's Boxrec you know, feel free to look it up.

I did look it up. I was also alive back then. Rodriguez was campaigning as a welterweight until after the loss to Cokes. Period.

If you looked it up, I'd change the prescription on your glasses. You're completely wrong, period.

Rodriguez was the odds on favorite to regain the welterweight title after Griffith moved up to middleweight.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I did look it up. I was also alive back then. Rodriguez was campaigning as a welterweight until after the loss to Cokes. Period.

If you looked it up, I'd change the prescription on your glasses. You're completely wrong, period.

Bite me.

No thanks, I'd rather help you learn. Reluctant as you may be.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He was obviously willing to come down for the possibility of a title and it backfired. That isn't the first, nor the last fighter to suck weight for a shot at gold. But he wasn't campaigning at Welterweight. His previous fight at Welter was against griffith.

Though he was fighting long time Welters like Hurricane Carter & George Benton. LOL, not sure why I've struck such a nerve with you. But there is no reason to be this ridiculous.

[Collins2000]

Bite me.

No thanks, I'd rather help you learn. Reluctant as you may be.

[ThatOne]

It's ironic that a certain poster is willing to give a fighter a pass because he had to make weight but then argues that a past it, shopworn, out of shape, and disinterested fighter's career is defined by a hotly contested decision win.

[raylawpc]

He was obviously willing to come down for the possibility of a title and it backfired. That isn't the first, nor the last fighter to suck weight for a shot at gold. But he wasn't campaigning at Welterweight. His previous fight at Welter was against griffith.

Though he was fighting long time Welters like Hurricane Carter & George Benton. LOL, not sure why I've struck such a nerve with you. But there is no reason to be this ridiculous.

You haven't struck a nerve with me. I know its important to you that Granberry be wrong all the time, but this time, he's right. Rodriguez was a welterweight, and still campaigning as a welterweight. At the time of the fight with Cokes, Rodriguez was ranked No. 1 welter by both the WBA and Ring Magazine. Since the Griffith fight he had fought a number of welters: L. C. Morgan. Eddie Pace, Cecil Mott, Joey Limas, Rip Randall, Joe Louis Murphy, and Percy Manning to name a few. (I knew Joey Limas and Joe Louis Murphy, and I can tell you from personal knowledge they were both welterweights.)

Good welters will frequently test the waters at middleweight. For example, three of SSR's fights with Jake LaMotta occurred while Robinson was still a welterweight and before he ever won the welterweight title. You can't say Emile Griffith wasn't a welterweight when he fought middleweights Rubin Cater, Holly Mims or Jose Gonzalez because Griffith was the reigning welterweight titlist.

Again, I know its important to you that Granberry be wrong, but this time he's right.

[ThatOne]

Why does Cokes get the benefit of the doubt for his loss to Rodriguez but Muhammad Ali doesn't get the benefit of the doubt for looking bad in winning a decision against Jimmy Young when he was older (34) shopworn ( three wars with Frazier, two wars with Norton, and one war with Foreman) out of shape (at 230 pounds he weighed more than at any time in his career except his final fight with Trevor Berbick) and disinterested ( wiggling his butt while on the ropes, going into a shell to start the fight).

A certain poster, is being hoisted on his own petard.

And it's not raylawpc.

[raylawpc]

Why does Cokes get the benefit of the doubt for his loss to Rodriguez but Muhammad Ali doesn't get the benefit of the doubt for looking bad in winning a decision against Jimmy Young when he was older (34) shopworn ( three wars with Frazier, two wars with Norton, and one war with Foreman) out of shape (at 230 pounds he weighed more than at any time in his career except his final fight with Trevor Berbick) and disinterested ( wiggling his butt while on the ropes, going into a shell to start the fight).

A certain poster, is being hoisted on his own petard.

And it's not raylawpc.

ThatOne, Cokes beat Rodriguez by a TKO in 15 rounds. He didn't lose to Rodriguez.

[ThatOne]

Why does Cokes get the benefit of the doubt for his loss to Rodriguez but Muhammad Ali doesn't get the benefit of the doubt for looking bad in winning a decision against Jimmy Young when he was older (34) shopworn ( three wars with Frazier, two wars with Norton, and one war with Foreman) out of shape (at 230 pounds he weighed more than at any time in his career except his final fight with Trevor Berbick) and disinterested ( wiggling his butt while on the ropes, going into a shell to start the fight).

A certain poster, is being hoisted on his own petard.

And it's not raylawpc.

ThatOne, Cokes beat Rodriguez by a TKO in 15 rounds. He didn't lose to Rodriguez.

My larger point is that it's terrible to judge fighters on fights when they are past it, fighting out of their weight class, out of shape. et cetera.

[Jaywheel]

The smaller point being you talking about a fight that you don't even know what the outcome was.