Jack Dempsey plays along with left hook from the Mayor of Shelby, James A. Johnson.
Vintage Montana Boxing
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
Jack Dempsey plays along with left hook from the Mayor of Shelby, James A. Johnson.
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
Excerpt from "Town in Montana Was Overmatched" a terrific L.A. Times article of February 05, 1989|EARL GUSTKEY , Times Staff Writer
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"The second $100,000 payment to Kearns was pulled off on the strength of a $50,000 commitment by James Johnson, president of the First State Bank of Shelby.
At this point, June 15, the Johnsons, Molumby and everyone else trying to put the fight together came to realize that they would get no breaks from Kearns. Dempsey's manager was loudly asking where the third $100,000 would come from.
For a 1964 Sports Illustrated article about the fight, Body Johnson wrote that reporters also began asking: " 'What about the third $100,000?'--and we never heard the end of that until the day of the fight."
And there was one other little problem. Shelby had no stadium.
A lumber agent, John Humphrey, was hired to supply the lumber and hire 200 carpenters to build a 40,000-seat wooden stadium south of the Great Northern tracks. The result was an octagonal, all-wood stadium, 40,268 seats, with rows of bleachers going right down to ringside. Cost of construction was $82,000.
As the structure was going up, Shelby residents bid on the lumber so that after the stadium was torn down, they could build homes.
But as the stadium rose, the promotion came tumbling down.
"Our problem was, Kearns would not state publicly that there would be a fight," Body Johnson recalled.
"And since Shelby was difficult to get to, if there was any doubt at all among the ticket-buying boxing fans of Seattle, Chicago and New York, well, we started getting more cancellations than ticket purchases."
Around Shelby's train station, the Great Northern Railroad put down 35 miles of extra siding, where the hoped-for chartered trains from points east and west could park.
A month before the fight, the Los Angeles Times reported that the L.A. Athletic Club was offering a package tour to the fight, by steamship from San Pedro to Seattle, and by charter train to Shelby. Price, including tickets for $150.
And although the promotion seemed to be falling apart, Dempsey continued to live in a large rented house in Great Falls--paid for by the promoters. He trained outdoors in Great Falls. Gibbons was similarly living in a Shelby home, training at his fenced training camp, and doing very well, charging 50 cents a head admission."
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"The second $100,000 payment to Kearns was pulled off on the strength of a $50,000 commitment by James Johnson, president of the First State Bank of Shelby.
At this point, June 15, the Johnsons, Molumby and everyone else trying to put the fight together came to realize that they would get no breaks from Kearns. Dempsey's manager was loudly asking where the third $100,000 would come from.
For a 1964 Sports Illustrated article about the fight, Body Johnson wrote that reporters also began asking: " 'What about the third $100,000?'--and we never heard the end of that until the day of the fight."
And there was one other little problem. Shelby had no stadium.
A lumber agent, John Humphrey, was hired to supply the lumber and hire 200 carpenters to build a 40,000-seat wooden stadium south of the Great Northern tracks. The result was an octagonal, all-wood stadium, 40,268 seats, with rows of bleachers going right down to ringside. Cost of construction was $82,000.
As the structure was going up, Shelby residents bid on the lumber so that after the stadium was torn down, they could build homes.
But as the stadium rose, the promotion came tumbling down.
"Our problem was, Kearns would not state publicly that there would be a fight," Body Johnson recalled.
"And since Shelby was difficult to get to, if there was any doubt at all among the ticket-buying boxing fans of Seattle, Chicago and New York, well, we started getting more cancellations than ticket purchases."
Around Shelby's train station, the Great Northern Railroad put down 35 miles of extra siding, where the hoped-for chartered trains from points east and west could park.
A month before the fight, the Los Angeles Times reported that the L.A. Athletic Club was offering a package tour to the fight, by steamship from San Pedro to Seattle, and by charter train to Shelby. Price, including tickets for $150.
And although the promotion seemed to be falling apart, Dempsey continued to live in a large rented house in Great Falls--paid for by the promoters. He trained outdoors in Great Falls. Gibbons was similarly living in a Shelby home, training at his fenced training camp, and doing very well, charging 50 cents a head admission."
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
St. Paul, Minnesota was one of the best American boxing venues during the early part of the 20th Century. Moreover, the Minneapolis-St. Paul area was the home of some capable boxers at that time, including Mike and Tommy Gibbons, Mike O'Dowd, Billy Miske, Earl Blue, Stewart McLean, Johnny Ertle, Jock Malone, Jimmy Delaney and Johnny Tillman.
In regards to Jimmy Delaney fighting in the Los Angeles area and Oakland on consecutive days, I know that Danny Kramer, a top featherweight of 1920s, accomplished the same feat during the era. Kramer had quite a bit of success in California during the "Four-Round Era," but lost to Benny Vierra in the Oakland bout. I was aware that there were other fighters who had at least two bouts on the same day or bouts on consecutive days, but I thought that Delaney's feat stood out because he made a long trip by automobile to Oakland instead of by train before fighting in Oakland. Traveling a long distance in an automobile was far more arduous than on a train at that time.
Hank Williams Sr., the great Country singer of the 1940s and 1950s, and his contemporaries were making long trips between shows by automobile, which was very taxing even at that time despite the fact that the roads and automobiles were much better at the time than in the 1920s. Since Hank was a very high-strung individual with a binge drinking problem and a bad back, it is apparent that he was less suited to be riding in automobiles on long trips than many other performers. During recent decades, many of the musical acts often travel in custom buses between shows.
Note- After writing much of this post, I took a look at the Oakland Tribune database on Ancestry.com and found some more information on Jimmy Delaney, who was regarded as a boxer with plenty of ability and skill. But it was also thought that he lacked punching power and had a relatively casual attitude towards his boxing career. After Delaney died, Tommy Simpson, the well-known Oakland boxing promoter, said that he was a great natural fighter and a fine person.
It does appear that the Delaney party arrived in Oakland at about four in afternoon on Wednesday after the long drive from Vernon where Delaney won a decision over Hughie Walker in a very dull four-round fight on Tuesday night. In Oakland on Wednesday night, Delaney didn't appear to be at his best while fighting Jack Reeves, who was a determined fighter, but didn't have that much skill. In what was regarded one of the best fights seen in some time in Oakland, the two fighters fought four rounds to a draw.
I would have liked to have known what route the Delaney party took on their trip to Oakland. It may be that they drove on a coastal highway or on the highway which went through the Tejon Pass and up the Central Valley.
At that time, the highway zig-zagged up to and down from the Tejon Pass because many of the automobiles of the day didn't have enough power to get up a highway with a very steep incline. Moreover, the Delaney party would have had to travel through the Tejon Pass at night because it would be relatively early in their journey, which didn't seem to be a task for timid. After getting to the Central Valley, the terrain is relatively flat.
Any route located closer to the coast would be going over hilly terrain much of the way. In other words, the Delaney party had their work cut out for them no matter what route they use.
- Chuck Johnston
In regards to Jimmy Delaney fighting in the Los Angeles area and Oakland on consecutive days, I know that Danny Kramer, a top featherweight of 1920s, accomplished the same feat during the era. Kramer had quite a bit of success in California during the "Four-Round Era," but lost to Benny Vierra in the Oakland bout. I was aware that there were other fighters who had at least two bouts on the same day or bouts on consecutive days, but I thought that Delaney's feat stood out because he made a long trip by automobile to Oakland instead of by train before fighting in Oakland. Traveling a long distance in an automobile was far more arduous than on a train at that time.
Hank Williams Sr., the great Country singer of the 1940s and 1950s, and his contemporaries were making long trips between shows by automobile, which was very taxing even at that time despite the fact that the roads and automobiles were much better at the time than in the 1920s. Since Hank was a very high-strung individual with a binge drinking problem and a bad back, it is apparent that he was less suited to be riding in automobiles on long trips than many other performers. During recent decades, many of the musical acts often travel in custom buses between shows.
Note- After writing much of this post, I took a look at the Oakland Tribune database on Ancestry.com and found some more information on Jimmy Delaney, who was regarded as a boxer with plenty of ability and skill. But it was also thought that he lacked punching power and had a relatively casual attitude towards his boxing career. After Delaney died, Tommy Simpson, the well-known Oakland boxing promoter, said that he was a great natural fighter and a fine person.
It does appear that the Delaney party arrived in Oakland at about four in afternoon on Wednesday after the long drive from Vernon where Delaney won a decision over Hughie Walker in a very dull four-round fight on Tuesday night. In Oakland on Wednesday night, Delaney didn't appear to be at his best while fighting Jack Reeves, who was a determined fighter, but didn't have that much skill. In what was regarded one of the best fights seen in some time in Oakland, the two fighters fought four rounds to a draw.
I would have liked to have known what route the Delaney party took on their trip to Oakland. It may be that they drove on a coastal highway or on the highway which went through the Tejon Pass and up the Central Valley.
At that time, the highway zig-zagged up to and down from the Tejon Pass because many of the automobiles of the day didn't have enough power to get up a highway with a very steep incline. Moreover, the Delaney party would have had to travel through the Tejon Pass at night because it would be relatively early in their journey, which didn't seem to be a task for timid. After getting to the Central Valley, the terrain is relatively flat.
Any route located closer to the coast would be going over hilly terrain much of the way. In other words, the Delaney party had their work cut out for them no matter what route they use.
- Chuck Johnston
Last edited by Chuck1052 on 02 Mar 2010, 17:44, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
The premature death of Jimmy Delaney got me thinking about the number of Harry Greb's opponents who died at a young age. They include:
1. Jimmy Delaney (blood poisoning)- 1927
2. Tiger Flowers (surgery complications)- 1927
3. Ralph Brooks (suicide)- 1926
4. Bartley Madden (injuries sustained while falling off a building)- 1930
5. Bill Brennan (shot to death)- 1924
6. Billy Miske (Bright's Disease)- 1924
7. Eddie McGoorty (reportedly throat cancer)- 1929 (at the age of forty)
8. Mickey Shannon (injuries sustained in bout with Al Roberts)- 1920
9. Willie Langford (unknown cause)- 1920
(There was a rumor that Willie Langford was the cousin of Sam Langford)
10. Terry Martin (Spanish Influenza)- 1918
Note- Greb himself died at the age of 32 while undergoing surgery in 1926.
- Chuck Johnston
1. Jimmy Delaney (blood poisoning)- 1927
2. Tiger Flowers (surgery complications)- 1927
3. Ralph Brooks (suicide)- 1926
4. Bartley Madden (injuries sustained while falling off a building)- 1930
5. Bill Brennan (shot to death)- 1924
6. Billy Miske (Bright's Disease)- 1924
7. Eddie McGoorty (reportedly throat cancer)- 1929 (at the age of forty)
8. Mickey Shannon (injuries sustained in bout with Al Roberts)- 1920
9. Willie Langford (unknown cause)- 1920
(There was a rumor that Willie Langford was the cousin of Sam Langford)
10. Terry Martin (Spanish Influenza)- 1918
Note- Greb himself died at the age of 32 while undergoing surgery in 1926.
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
Greb and Flowers both died (never woke up from the operation) after being anesthetized by the SAME anesthesiologist.Chuck1052 wrote:The premature death of Jimmy Delaney got me thinking about the number of Harry Greb's opponents who died at a young age. They include:
1. Jimmy Delaney (blood poisoning)- 1927
2. Tiger Flowers (surgery complications)- 1927
3. Ralph Brooks (suicide)- 1926
4. Bartley Madden (injuries sustained while falling off a building)- 1930
5. Bill Brennan (shot to death)- 1924
6. Billy Miske (Bright's Disease)- 1924
7. Eddie McGoorty (reportedly throat cancer)- 1929 (at the age of forty)
8. Mickey Shannon (injuries sustained in bout with Al Roberts)- 1920
9. Willie Langford (unknown cause)- 1920
(There was a rumor that Willie Langford was the cousin of Sam Langford)
10. Terry Martin (Spanish Influenza)- 1918
Note- Greb himself died at the age of 32 while undergoing surgery in 1926.
- Chuck Johnston
Years ago Dan Daniel in the RING Dectective had an interesting article on that.
A number of people connected with the Mickey Walker-Tiger Flowers fight (where Flowers lost his title on a disputed decision) died not long afterward under suspicious circumstances.
Including Flowers, the referee of the fight, and others connected with the fighters. The referee 'commited suicide' in a car near a lake in Minnesota with a rifle too long for him to have pulled the trigger himself.
That was from the days when the RING was a valuable and informative part of boxing.
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
Speaking of bouts that were too close together... On Nov 11, 1978 I attended the Marvin Camel vs Tom "The Bomb" Bethea bout in Missoula MT. Bethea was brought in at the last minute by promoter Elmer Boyce for original opponent Jesse Burnette. While it wasn't really explained at the time, the reason turned out was that Burnette had lost a split decision to Pete McIntyre just 3 days earlier, Nov 8 in Stockholm, CA. Camel's speed and reach made for a complete blow out, winning by 2nd round KO in what proved to be Bethea's last professional bout. It was a very unsatisfying substitution for what the promoter had to know was sketchy wishes of matchmaking. I remember leaving the Harry Adams Fieldhouse, walking past the U of M Grizzly trophy case and wishing I could grab the Camel vs Burnette poster that was behind the glass still. Although Boyce was a long time boxing promoter in Montana, sometimes it just seems like a hobby that he couldn't get right.
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
At his best, Jesse Burnett was a tough nut to crack for any light-heavyweight during the 1970s. It appears that he acquitted himself well when having a series of bouts with likes of Alvaro Lopez and Victor Galindez.
Does anybody remember Burnett's bout with Miguel Angel Cuello for the vacant WBC version of the world light-heavyweight title which took place in Monte Carlo? Burnett had a good start in that bout and even knocked down Cuello in the fourth round before getting stopped in the ninth. But one has to remember that Burnett was a substitute who got the bout on forty-eight hours notice and then rode on a plane for twenty-four hours from Los Angeles to Monte Carlo.
While Burnett didn't have an exciting boxing style, I am sure that Missoula boxing fans would have seen a competitive bout if he fought Camel as scheduled.
- Chuck Johnston
Does anybody remember Burnett's bout with Miguel Angel Cuello for the vacant WBC version of the world light-heavyweight title which took place in Monte Carlo? Burnett had a good start in that bout and even knocked down Cuello in the fourth round before getting stopped in the ninth. But one has to remember that Burnett was a substitute who got the bout on forty-eight hours notice and then rode on a plane for twenty-four hours from Los Angeles to Monte Carlo.
While Burnett didn't have an exciting boxing style, I am sure that Missoula boxing fans would have seen a competitive bout if he fought Camel as scheduled.
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
I sat next to Eddie Gregory at the Jesse Burnett-Jerry Martin fight at the Philly Spectrum.Chuck1052 wrote:At his best, Jesse Burnett was a tough nut to crack for any light-heavyweight during the 1970s. It appears that he acquitted himself well when having a series of bouts with likes of Alvaro Lopez and Victor Galindez.
Does anybody remember Burnett's bout with Miguel Angel Cuello for the vacant WBC version of the world light-heavyweight title which took place in Monte Carlo? Burnett had a good start in that bout and even knocked down Cuello in the fourth round before getting stopped in the ninth. But one has to remember that Burnett was a substitute who got the bout on forty-eight hours notice and then rode on a plane for twenty-four hours from Los Angeles to Monte Carlo.
While Burnett didn't have an exciting boxing style, I am sure that Missoula boxing fans would have seen a competitive bout if he fought Camel as scheduled.
- Chuck Johnston
Gregory said to me about Burnett, "He was the slickest fighter I ever fought."
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
Chuck1052 wrote:At his best, Jesse Burnett was a tough nut to crack for any light-heavyweight during the 1970s. It appears that he acquitted himself well when having a series of bouts with likes of Alvaro Lopez and Victor Galindez.
Does anybody remember Burnett's bout with Miguel Angel Cuello for the vacant WBC version of the world light-heavyweight title which took place in Monte Carlo? Burnett had a good start in that bout and even knocked down Cuello in the fourth round before getting stopped in the ninth. But one has to remember that Burnett was a substitute who got the bout on forty-eight hours notice and then rode on a plane for twenty-four hours from Los Angeles to Monte Carlo.
While Burnett didn't have an exciting boxing style, I am sure that Missoula boxing fans would have seen a competitive bout if he fought Camel as scheduled.
- Chuck Johnston
I don't remember the Cuello bout, but I do remember clearly thinking he got robbed against Leon Spinks. I thought he gave Spinks a boxing lesson that day.
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
Looking at Jesse Burnett's record, it looks like he had his first pro bout at the age of 26. While he was active as a fighter, I remember reading that he was holding down a fulltime job as a gardener in addition to doing his regular training and roadwork. It is my understanding that such a schedule is not good for a professional fighter.
I think that Burnett and Bruce Curry were the first two fighters who were managed and trained by Jesse Reid. With both fighters, it looked like Reid made some errors. For instance, I wonder if it was wise to have Curry fight Thomas Hearns or have Burnett take the bout with Miguel Angel Cuello in a distant place like Monte Carlo on such short notice.
- Chuck Johnston
I think that Burnett and Bruce Curry were the first two fighters who were managed and trained by Jesse Reid. With both fighters, it looked like Reid made some errors. For instance, I wonder if it was wise to have Curry fight Thomas Hearns or have Burnett take the bout with Miguel Angel Cuello in a distant place like Monte Carlo on such short notice.
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
Burnett was robbed again and again by the officials. Especially when he clobbered Leon SpinksChuck1052 wrote:Looking at Jesse Burnett's record, it looks like he had his first pro bout at the age of 26. While he was active as a fighter, I remember reading that he was holding down a fulltime job as a gardener in addition to doing his regular training and roadwork. It is my understanding that such a schedule is not good for a professional fighter.
I think that Burnett and Bruce Curry were the first two fighters who were managed and trained by Jesse Reid. With both fighters, it looked like Reid made some errors. For instance, I wonder if it was wise to have Curry fight Thomas Hearns or have Burnett take the bout with Miguel Angel Cuello in a distant place like Monte Carlo on such short notice.
- Chuck Johnston
Bruce Curry knocked Benitez down THREE times and lost the decision in NY.
Doesn't say much for Reid's pull with the officials.
Then Reid allowed Curry to fight in Japan on January 26th, 1973
and then fly back to the US and fight Benitez only days later in their rematch on February 4th, 1973.
Who exactly was Reid working for, Curry or Benitez?
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
Despite having profound personal problems, Bruce Curry was an exciting fighter, had all of the heart in the world and, according to reports, trained like a madman. His brother, Donald, was a far more talented and skilled, but didn't have as much heart or dedication.
In regards to the assertion that Jesse Burnett got robbed many times, I recall that he had a very tough time getting bouts, which may have resulted in Jesse Reid or Burnett being willing to accept situations in which Burnett wasn't going to get a fair shake. For sure, Burnett was much better than many other fighters with far superior win/loss records.
- Chuck Johnston
In regards to the assertion that Jesse Burnett got robbed many times, I recall that he had a very tough time getting bouts, which may have resulted in Jesse Reid or Burnett being willing to accept situations in which Burnett wasn't going to get a fair shake. For sure, Burnett was much better than many other fighters with far superior win/loss records.
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
A. Known Rivalries Between Montana Boxers (at least two bouts each)
Stanley Ketchell vs. Maurice Thompson
Al Webster vs. Alex Knaub
Al Webster vs. Frankie Wine
Al Webster vs. Joe Simonich
Joe Simonich vs. Pete Bross
George Gilstrap vs. Alex Knaub
Ritchie Fontaine vs. Hubert "Kid" Dennis
Alex Knaub vs. George Gilstrap
Dixie Lahood vs. Al Rossberg
Tiger Ray Cote vs. Roy Ockley
Leo Bens vs. Spider Kelly of Montana
Pete Bross vs. Battling Liedle
Battling Liedle vs. Frank Monahan
B. Dixie Lahood's Known Filipino Opponents
1. Alkie Akol
2. Felix Villamore
3. Pete Sarmiento
4. Young Nationalista
5. Harry Falegano
C. It appears that Leo Bens (Benz), a Butte middleweight who was active during the 1910s, was born on March 5, 1890 and died on December 14, 1987, which would mean that he lived to be 97 years old.
- Chuck Johnston
Stanley Ketchell vs. Maurice Thompson
Al Webster vs. Alex Knaub
Al Webster vs. Frankie Wine
Al Webster vs. Joe Simonich
Joe Simonich vs. Pete Bross
George Gilstrap vs. Alex Knaub
Ritchie Fontaine vs. Hubert "Kid" Dennis
Alex Knaub vs. George Gilstrap
Dixie Lahood vs. Al Rossberg
Tiger Ray Cote vs. Roy Ockley
Leo Bens vs. Spider Kelly of Montana
Pete Bross vs. Battling Liedle
Battling Liedle vs. Frank Monahan
B. Dixie Lahood's Known Filipino Opponents
1. Alkie Akol
2. Felix Villamore
3. Pete Sarmiento
4. Young Nationalista
5. Harry Falegano
C. It appears that Leo Bens (Benz), a Butte middleweight who was active during the 1910s, was born on March 5, 1890 and died on December 14, 1987, which would mean that he lived to be 97 years old.
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
That's quite a list. One that can be added is Jimmy Best vs Billy Hyde. Hyde was a notoriously dirty fighter and thought he could get away with anything against the colored opponent. Best scored a revenge KO in the rematch. Also, note that Pete Bross is in the photo of Dempsey referee appearance in the RJ Lewis vs Blumenhauer bout.
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
Norm, access Pete Bross' record on BoxRec and click on "biography." You will find a photo of Bross in a boxing pose. Besides being a law enforcement officer, Bross apparently owned a bar on the west side of Great Falls.
- Chuck Johnston
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
Norm, it looks like the tickets were relatively high-priced for the April 27, 1927 Butte card headlined by the bout between Joe Simonich and Jack Palmer. The lower-priced tickets appeared to sell alot better than the higher-priced ones. But a gate of $4,000. was quite good in a midsized city during the 1920s.
Doc Flynn, one of the referees on the card, was a boxer who fought out of the San Francisco area about 1900.
Dave Shade, a top contender in the welterweight and middleweight divisions during the 1920s and 1930s, won a decision in an fifteen-round bout with Simonich in Butte during 1921. While only 19 years old at the time, Shade already had a large number four-round bouts against many capable fighters under his belt and was proving that he was even better in longer bouts. Shade is undoubtedly the best fighter who fought Simonich in Butte.
I have read accounts of the Shade-Simonich bout which took place in Butte and came away the feeling that the people involved in the promotion blew it. For one thing, the Shade-Simonich bout was one-half of a double main event and a large total of $5,000. was guaranteed to the four fighters in the two bouts, which made it much less likely that the boxing show would be a financial success. Moreover, a large dance took place at the same time as the boxing show. The show was a financial flop.
- Chuck Johnston
Doc Flynn, one of the referees on the card, was a boxer who fought out of the San Francisco area about 1900.
Dave Shade, a top contender in the welterweight and middleweight divisions during the 1920s and 1930s, won a decision in an fifteen-round bout with Simonich in Butte during 1921. While only 19 years old at the time, Shade already had a large number four-round bouts against many capable fighters under his belt and was proving that he was even better in longer bouts. Shade is undoubtedly the best fighter who fought Simonich in Butte.
I have read accounts of the Shade-Simonich bout which took place in Butte and came away the feeling that the people involved in the promotion blew it. For one thing, the Shade-Simonich bout was one-half of a double main event and a large total of $5,000. was guaranteed to the four fighters in the two bouts, which made it much less likely that the boxing show would be a financial success. Moreover, a large dance took place at the same time as the boxing show. The show was a financial flop.
- Chuck Johnston
Last edited by Chuck1052 on 06 Mar 2010, 21:42, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
Jack Dempsey used Dave Shade as a sparring partner before one (or both) of the Tunney fights.
Dempsey always included sparring with middleweight in his training for speed.
DAVE SHADE AND HARRY GREB SIGNING ARTICLES
Shade standing at far left of photo, looking over Greb's shoulder.
Dempsey always included sparring with middleweight in his training for speed.
DAVE SHADE AND HARRY GREB SIGNING ARTICLES
Shade standing at far left of photo, looking over Greb's shoulder.
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
granberry, Jack Dempsey used Dave Shade as a sparring partner after Leo Flynn took over as the manager of Dempsey, which was certainly after Dempsey's first bout with Gene Tunney. Flynn had been the manager of Shade since late 1921, so there was that connection between Shade and Dempsey.
It was reported that Shade and Flynn didn't always get along, but I found that they owned homes which were located next to each other in New York City during 1930. At the time, Shade had a wife and one son.
- Chuck Johnston
It was reported that Shade and Flynn didn't always get along, but I found that they owned homes which were located next to each other in New York City during 1930. At the time, Shade had a wife and one son.
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
Dempsey Works With Dave Shade In Daily Session .Chuck1052 wrote:granberry, Jack Dempsey used Dave Shade as a sparring partner after Leo Flynn took over as the manager of Dempsey, which was certainly after Dempsey's first bout with Gene Tunney. Flynn had been the manager of Shade since late 1921, so there was that connection between Shade and Dempsey.
It was reported that Shade and Flynn didn't always get along, but I found that they owned homes which were located next to each other in New York City during 1930. At the time, Shade had a wife and one son.
- Chuck Johnston
The News - Jul 12, 1927
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 82,4726784
Dempsey Blocks Left Jab .Secret .Sessions .
The Day - Jul 12, 1927
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=gZ ... 2115&hl=en
Dempsey Has Secret Workout Every Morning .
Lundington Daily News - Jul 13, 1927
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=1g ... 6292&hl=en
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
Dempsey and Leo Flynn at Saratoga Lake , New York. 1927. Training for Sharkey.
Dempsey and Leo Flynn at Saratoga Lake , New York. 1927. Training for Sharkey
Dempsey, Leo Flynn and Tex Rickard at Saratoga Lake , New York. July, 1927. Training for Sharkey
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
granberry, thanks for posting the photos of Leo Flynn and Jack Dempsey. On the internet, I found an informative Sports Illustrated article about Flynn, who was quite a character. As a fighter, Dempsey had a number of managers who were characters, including Flynn, John "The Barber" Reisler, Fred Winsor and, of course, Jack Kearns. I think that Max Waxman, another interesting individual, managed Dempsey during the latter's highly successful exhibition tour during the early 1930s.
In regards to Flynn, it appears that he managed a stable of thirty or fifty fighters from his base in New York City at one time during his heyday. Both Flynn and his wife, Kate, were known to drive a very hard bargain with promoters, but Flynn didn't seem to hesitate to put his fighters in bouts in which they were overmatched if it was financially advantageous to do so. While managing his stable of fighters, Flynn also acted as a matchmaker for Tex Rickard at Madison Square Garden during the early 1920s, apparently quitting the post after many managers complained.
Flynn made a pool hustler in his early days. By 1930, Flynn made some money as a golf hustler at a time when managing a boxing stable apparently became less lucrative because the advent of the "Great Depression." It appears that Flynn died after going through with a lucrative golf match when he was ill. Yes, he may have won the match, but......
- Chuck Johnston
In regards to Flynn, it appears that he managed a stable of thirty or fifty fighters from his base in New York City at one time during his heyday. Both Flynn and his wife, Kate, were known to drive a very hard bargain with promoters, but Flynn didn't seem to hesitate to put his fighters in bouts in which they were overmatched if it was financially advantageous to do so. While managing his stable of fighters, Flynn also acted as a matchmaker for Tex Rickard at Madison Square Garden during the early 1920s, apparently quitting the post after many managers complained.
Flynn made a pool hustler in his early days. By 1930, Flynn made some money as a golf hustler at a time when managing a boxing stable apparently became less lucrative because the advent of the "Great Depression." It appears that Flynn died after going through with a lucrative golf match when he was ill. Yes, he may have won the match, but......
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
Looking at the newspaper archives database on Ancestry.com, I found some good information on Al Webster and Pete Bross. Webster was interviewed about his career for a lengthy article which appeared in the Billings Gazette during the middle 1970s, not too long before he passed away in 1977.
There was a news item in the December 4, 1928 edition of Helena Independent about Bross retiring as a professional boxer in order to become a Deputy Sheriff in Cascade County. He apparently had some previous law enforcement experience while residing in Rockford, Illinois for a brief period of time.
As a law enforcement officer, Bross had at least a couple of interesting experiences during his career. According to the December 12, 1928 edition of the Montana Standard, Bross and Herbert Locke, Chief Criminal Deputy of Cascade County, tried to confront Robert C. Combs, who was suspected of harassing his former wife, at a filling station located in the business district of Great Falls area on December 11, 1928.
After Combs locked himself in a lavatory at the station, Locke climbed onto an automobile in order to talk to Combs through a small window. Seeing Locke through the window, Combs killed him with a shot through the heart. Then Bross rattled the lavatory door, telling Combs to come out. But Combs fired three shots through the door before killing himself with two shots into his heart.
In 1941, Bross was a policeman in Great Falls when a fellow officer became distraught and suicidal. While Bross was trying to subdue the officer, the latter was wounded from a self-inflicted gunshot.
During 1947, Bross opened a lounge in Great Falls after his career in law enforcement. He also acted as a referee of both amateur and pro boxing bouts which took place in Great Falls.
- Chuck Johnston
There was a news item in the December 4, 1928 edition of Helena Independent about Bross retiring as a professional boxer in order to become a Deputy Sheriff in Cascade County. He apparently had some previous law enforcement experience while residing in Rockford, Illinois for a brief period of time.
As a law enforcement officer, Bross had at least a couple of interesting experiences during his career. According to the December 12, 1928 edition of the Montana Standard, Bross and Herbert Locke, Chief Criminal Deputy of Cascade County, tried to confront Robert C. Combs, who was suspected of harassing his former wife, at a filling station located in the business district of Great Falls area on December 11, 1928.
After Combs locked himself in a lavatory at the station, Locke climbed onto an automobile in order to talk to Combs through a small window. Seeing Locke through the window, Combs killed him with a shot through the heart. Then Bross rattled the lavatory door, telling Combs to come out. But Combs fired three shots through the door before killing himself with two shots into his heart.
In 1941, Bross was a policeman in Great Falls when a fellow officer became distraught and suicidal. While Bross was trying to subdue the officer, the latter was wounded from a self-inflicted gunshot.
During 1947, Bross opened a lounge in Great Falls after his career in law enforcement. He also acted as a referee of both amateur and pro boxing bouts which took place in Great Falls.
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
That's great stuff Chuck and granberry.
Another excerpt from "Town in Montana Was Overmatched" a terrific L.A. Times article of February 05, 1989|EARL GUSTKEY , Times Staff Writer
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Films of the fight, incidentally, are part of the story.
Kearns, who knew that interstate transportation of boxing films was illegal under an obscure federal law (it was repealed in 1940), learned early in negotiations with the Shelby people that they were ignorant of the law.
He gave all future film revenues to the promoters, who only later learned that such a concession was worthless.
"We all thought we could recoup a lot of the losses from film distributors, but of course that never happened," Body Johnson said.
There are numerous descriptions of Kearns' departure from Shelby that day. The best one is the version that has Kearns leaving the stadium for a waiting car and driver. He supposedly was driven to the train station, carrying two canvas sacks containing somewhere between $30,000 and $80,000 in cash from the live gate. Kearns was taken to a locomotive connected only to a caboose.
He had paid the locomotive engineer $500, so the story goes, to be ready for an immediate departure for Great Falls. That night, Kearns slept in the basement of a Great Falls barber shop, clutching his money bags. He departed the next day for Seattle.
Dempsey went on to one of the most memorable bouts of his career after Shelby. Two months later in New York, in a wild brawl, he knocked out Luis Angel Firpo.
Gibbons made $7,500, plus a considerable sum he was said to have earned from paid admissions to his training camp. Afterward, he was signed to a 20-week vaudeville tour at $2,500 a week.
And the attention from his showing against Dempsey earned him a much bigger purse against Frenchman Georges Carpentier, in 1924.
At least two banks closed soon after the fight, the Stanton Trust & Savings Bank of Great Falls, and the First State Bank of Shelby.
In later years, Kearns joked about "the banks Jack and I broke in Montana."
Dempsey died in 1983, at 87.
Gibbons died in 1960, at 69. He had served as sheriff of Cass County, Minn., for 24 years.
Doc Kearns managed fighters for the rest of his life. He died in 1963, at 80.
James Johnson died in 1938.
Body Johnson is 89 and lives in Palm Desert, Calif.
"Make sure you get it right," he told a reporter who called recently. "There's been a lot of inaccurate stuff written about that fight.
"My Dad and I lost $169,000 on the fight, but no one else lost anything. Kearns was a crook. He did us in. Every time he opened his mouth, he lied to us.
Another excerpt from "Town in Montana Was Overmatched" a terrific L.A. Times article of February 05, 1989|EARL GUSTKEY , Times Staff Writer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Films of the fight, incidentally, are part of the story.
Kearns, who knew that interstate transportation of boxing films was illegal under an obscure federal law (it was repealed in 1940), learned early in negotiations with the Shelby people that they were ignorant of the law.
He gave all future film revenues to the promoters, who only later learned that such a concession was worthless.
"We all thought we could recoup a lot of the losses from film distributors, but of course that never happened," Body Johnson said.
There are numerous descriptions of Kearns' departure from Shelby that day. The best one is the version that has Kearns leaving the stadium for a waiting car and driver. He supposedly was driven to the train station, carrying two canvas sacks containing somewhere between $30,000 and $80,000 in cash from the live gate. Kearns was taken to a locomotive connected only to a caboose.
He had paid the locomotive engineer $500, so the story goes, to be ready for an immediate departure for Great Falls. That night, Kearns slept in the basement of a Great Falls barber shop, clutching his money bags. He departed the next day for Seattle.
Dempsey went on to one of the most memorable bouts of his career after Shelby. Two months later in New York, in a wild brawl, he knocked out Luis Angel Firpo.
Gibbons made $7,500, plus a considerable sum he was said to have earned from paid admissions to his training camp. Afterward, he was signed to a 20-week vaudeville tour at $2,500 a week.
And the attention from his showing against Dempsey earned him a much bigger purse against Frenchman Georges Carpentier, in 1924.
At least two banks closed soon after the fight, the Stanton Trust & Savings Bank of Great Falls, and the First State Bank of Shelby.
In later years, Kearns joked about "the banks Jack and I broke in Montana."
Dempsey died in 1983, at 87.
Gibbons died in 1960, at 69. He had served as sheriff of Cass County, Minn., for 24 years.
Doc Kearns managed fighters for the rest of his life. He died in 1963, at 80.
James Johnson died in 1938.
Body Johnson is 89 and lives in Palm Desert, Calif.
"Make sure you get it right," he told a reporter who called recently. "There's been a lot of inaccurate stuff written about that fight.
"My Dad and I lost $169,000 on the fight, but no one else lost anything. Kearns was a crook. He did us in. Every time he opened his mouth, he lied to us.
Re: Vintage Montana Boxing
Chuck, this was an example of one of the very good gates. Many times a card would sometimes get scheduled against a county fair or suffer from extreme winter conditions. One of the Inspector's Reports on Oct. 26, 1933 in Chinook, MT shows a total gate of $7.00 (14 tickets @ .50 ea). After taxes, the remains 6.65 was given to the two main event boxers to split. That was at one of many smaller venues, but larger towns like Butte and Billings usually did pretty well.Chuck1052 wrote:Norm, it looks like the tickets were relatively high-priced for the April 27, 1927 Butte card headlined by the bout between Joe Simonich and Jack Palmer. The lower-priced tickets appeared to sell alot better than the higher-priced ones. But a gate of $4,000. was quite good in a midsized city during the 1920s.
- Chuck Johnston