These fighters with tremendous speed,reflexes,quickness. Floyd Junior,Sweet Pea,Ali,Johnson,Roy Jones,Willie Pep. In their primes, were they the best? They weren't always in the greatest fights. It wasn't a life and death struggle. They'd win every round ,almost, in an easy victory. Many of the bouts went the distance. But they had their knockouts too. The only guy that I can think of with everything was Robinson,but that's no revelation. Could Muhammad and Johnson have smothered the attacks of Dempsey.?Make Marciano miss too much? Frustrate Joe Louis? It's highly possible.
Remember the Whitaker/Chavez match? Nothing to write home about,but Pernall was robbed of a victory. I think of a fight like that when I think of those other combinations I mentioned. Maybe the greatest fighters weren't the most exciting...except for Ray Robinson.
You know Rog you make a valid point about the good boxers with fast hands maybe being the better fighters I guess because they are no fun to watch a lot of times that we dismiss them as not so good fighters,but there is an old saying I have always heard ''A good boxer will beat a good puncher 9 out of 10 times'' but then again who would you rather watch Jimmy Young vs Ali or Saad muhammad vs Yaqui Lopez
I've always been a little prejudiced when choosing my all-time favorite lightweight champ.
It's not hard to understand why Roberto Duran topped my list for years, and still does.
He was the best of my era, and undoubtably competitive with those of any era.
However, with age I've come to know what was around before Duran.
The boxing skills of Benny Leonard have been validated by those who saw him up close & personal.
There was Canzoneri, and of course, the great Henry Armstrong. All great champs.
However, there is enough first rate footage available to make a case for another 135lb champ, Ike Williams.
I've seen film of quite a few Ike Williams bouts, but the one that really hooked me was one of his battles with Beau Jack.
About ten years ago, I receieved an e-mail from a man who was Williams half brother.
He had read my words in an on-line post relating to my thoughts regarding Williams vs. Juan Zurrita.
The man was happy with my opinion of his brother, and he expanded on my thoughts.
We communicated for several months, and then I lost touch with him. He was quite old, and a follow-up e-mail from his daughter told me that her father was quite ill. Regreatably, I have forgotten the man's last name (although I have all of our communications in a file tucked away in storage), however, his first name was, "Major".
Williams was a beautiful fighter, a master boxer with a devistating punch.
Frank Baltazar saw him fight live three times from ringside, when he was a kid. In those matches, Williams took on Mexican legend Enrique Bolanos. Hap Navarro told me that had it not been for the greatness of Ike Williams, Bolanos would have won the title. Frank co-signed that claim. That's enough validation for me.
I believe the old adage, "tell me who a boxer has fought, and I'll tell you how great he is."
Both Duran and Williams fought great competition at lightweight. Duran fought some talented 135 pounders, the best of a tough era, but Williams competiton, I believe, was better. Williams also didn't go into matches short of optimum condition.
Duran only trained enough to do what he had to do. DeJesus would have never defeated him in that non-title fight in the Garden had he been properly prepared. Duran was great enough to win with half-measure preperation in his era. However, I don't believe he'd have had that luxuary in an earlier era?
I don't want to speculate on who might have won, that is senseless, all that does is create an argumentative scenerio. I just want to say that Ike Williams is one guy I'd have loved to have seen fight Roberto Duran.
David Haye’s quest for the mantle of undisputed world heavyweight champion hits a potentially sticky patch next month in Manchester when he defends his WBA title against old Puerto Rican spoiler John Ruiz at the MEN Arena on April 3.
Londoner Haye, a breath of fresh air in a division previously beyond stale, is forced to sniff a 38-year-old with a style that can literally be described as ‘stinking’. Haye is forced to sniff him because Ruiz jabbed, mauled and mauled some more on the way to a few wins and the mandatory position with the WBA, a governing body long associated with Puerto Rico and where charity, clearly, begins at home. Ruiz wins because he stops the other man working.
This is indeed potentially sticky. Haye must not allow himself to be messed around in the first defence of the title he won with a 12-round decision over Rusian giant Nikolai Valuev in Germany (where Valuev is based) in November. It was a huge win for the talented and heavy handed British man - over a huge man, a man so huge that he can barely move. It allowed Haye to get on his bike and occasionally ram home the wheels with relative ease.
Ruiz is an altogether different proposition, despite his age - small, light, tricky and, of course, negative. He is not a big target for Haye, who likes a target at 23-1 (21), and at his best is awkwardly effective. I struggle to build Ruiz up any further. As for Haye, his only loss came in his cruiserweight days in 2004 when he punched himself out in five raucous rounds against a true iron man by the name of Carl Thompson (who never fought again, pointedly), a loss from which he came back magnificently well under trainer Adam Booth. One of his subsequent cruiserweight victims, the big, dangerous Enzo Maccarinelli, was reduced to a quivering wreck from a single Haye right hand. Jean-Marc Mormeck, the bull of a man from Paris, also kissed the baby from one thunderous right, and this was in Paris.
Haye used to rely solely on his “Hayemaker” right but a sharp jab and a big left hook are recent additions to his arsenal, along with much better stamina. At 29, a baby by heavyweight standards, Haye is one of those refreshingly ‘improving’ champions who only moved up to heavyweight because he had nothing left to prove at cruiser, where he picked up WBC, WBA and WBO titles, the first two from Mormeck, the third, from Swansea’s Maccarinelli.
The official move came in November 2008 with a five-round destruction of New York gatekeeper Monte Barrett, down five times in the slaughter. (He had previously tested the heavyweight waters with a three-knockdown, first-round blitzing of then world-ranked Pole Tomasz Bonin.) Haye then sought quick showdowns with his new and only obvious rivals, Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko, but they dithered and then opted for easier prey; Haye opted for Valuev, who weighs over 300 pounds and stands over seven foot, and licked him in just his third fight at the weight. Valuev is a man the ageing Klitschkos had conveniently steered around.
Clearly, Haye wants to embarrass the Klitschkos into a square-up and has already hurled plenty of trash-talk in their direction but an emphatic win over Ruiz, whom the Klitschkos have also steered round, would really hit home. As stressed, Haye must now allow Ruiz to mess him around next month, to frustrate him. He needs to jump on Ruiz, blow him away. If he fails, he needs to stay cool, work out the mystery, before jumping on him again. Haye is as quick as he is powerful – smaller, yes, at 6ft 3ins, than many modern heavies and particularly those dastardly Klitchkos but faster and more ambitious in return.
Let’s not get too carried away. While his win over Valuev was well-executed, it was not particularly memorable and only emulated Evander Holyfield’s stick-and-move tactics against the same man a little earlier. (Holyfield nearly pipped Valuev at the age of 44). Plus, Haye’s chin is still in the Amir Khan bracket – suspect.
Nevertheless, he can undoubtedly fight and back home in front of his adoring British public (the Valuev fight generated huge PPV-numbers here) looks happy, hungry, fit-looking and this match away from potential superstardom.
The future is in his own wrecking-ball fists.
As many have predicted, Amir Khan’s debut in the States comes against – not Argentine puncher Marcos Maidana – but notorious non-puncher Paulie Malignaggi in New York’s Madison Square Garden on May 15, and the question mark hanging over Khan’s chin looks more and more like a big black cloud.
Maidana is unknown in the States but we know him in Europe, where he is based (Germany), as a real banger at 27-1 (26) and the mandatory challenger to Khan and Khan’s WBA light-welterweight title. However, Khan is now promoted by the powerful Oscar De La Hoya out of Los Angeles and trained by the powerful Freddie Roach, and power and money talk; Maidana is fobbed off with one of those ghastly ‘interim’ title shots later this month in Las Vegas and Khan gets the green light to defend his title and his chin against the light-hitting, injury prone Malignaggi, who really cannot break an egg and bangs up his right hand when he tries.
His record of 27-3 (5) says it all.
We know Malignaggi in Europe, too. He fought on the Ricky Hatton-Juan Lazcano bill in Manchester in May 2008 and, in front of a crowd of 55,000, stunk the joint out against a man he had already licked in Lovemore Ndou. His right hand ‘went’ again but what do you expect from a boxer who thinks he can fight. He thus represents the perfect opponent for a quick, talented boxer like Khan, who likes to go forward and feast on anyone without a dig. Last time out in December, Khan destroyed Brooklyn’s non-punching if previously unbeaten Dmitiry Salita in 76 seconds in Newcastle, dropping Salita within 10 seconds and three times in all. Malignaggi, another Brooklyn fighter, will last longer on home turf but only succeed in making Khan look a million dollars.
Khan, 22-1 (16), linked up with trainer Roach in Hollywood after Colombia’s unknown Breidis Prescott crushed him in 54 seconds in Manchester in September 2008, dropping him twice. Khan fell like he were shot in one of the knockdowns. Prescott looked a million dollars himself but has since been exposed as quite ordinary, which only confirms how vulnerabe Khan really is. Roach said publicly he did not want Khan to fight Maidana but when it looked like Khan’s then promoter F rank Warren fancied it (allegedly), Roach (again allegedly) began whispering in a few LA ears and pretty soon Khan was not only LA-trained but LA-based, managed and promoted, and fighting Malignaggi.
There is no need for anyone to ask why.
OK, Malignaggi comes off a decent points win over the smaller and overrated Juan Diaz, which earned him this crack, but took a brutal 12-round pounding from Puerto Rico’s Miguel Cotto when he last fought in Madison Square Garden in 2006, to lose a landslide decision, and later soaked up an 11-round beating from Hatton before his corner slung in the towel. Durable, brave and great at selling himself, Paulie will do the hype, pack out the historic Garden and then willingly showcase the speed and aggression of young Khan, 23.
Malignaggi has the ‘nous’ to survive the inevitable lightning start from Khan, the blurring attacks, but it it is only a matter of time before Khan’s lead becomes unassailable and he forces either a late, mercy stoppage or a comprehensive decision.
Then, sadly, we can expect another non-puncher for the Bolton ex-pat.
Last edited by bennie on 06 Mar 2010, 04:18, edited 1 time in total.
Sometimes I feel like the Lone Ranger when it comes to Muhammad Ali. I grew up watching him. Ali was the heavyweight champion of my youth. Granted he had some stinkers but I think overall he has proved himself to be an all time great heavy. The best? Well that probably comes down to opinion.
I wrote about Joe Frazier a while back. I meant everything I said about him. Joe has my respect but so does Ali. When he came back after being stripped of his title he was a different fighter. he was flat footed and no longer had the quick flashy foot movement, though he had brief moments when he could still wow the crowd.I don't know that Ali ducked anyone in his career and he took the heavyweight championship to an international level, fighting across the globe. he never made excuses when he lost and in those times when he was really tested he rose to the occasion. In his toughest fights he showed the kind of heart that we write about here on these pages.
Randy, I don't believe its really possible to do head-to-head match-ups of fighters from different eras in order to rank all-time greats (how do you compare Lennox Lewis to Bob Fitzsimmons when they fought with different styles, training, rules, equipment, etc.). What I look for in measuring all-time greatness are four attributes: (1) ring record; (2) the comparative strength or weakness of the era in which the boxer fought; (3) the fighter’s intangible characteristics (i.e., those that cut across eras such as toughness, determination, confidence, innovation, desire to excel, etc.); and (4) the fighter's historical impact on the sport and society. I was never a Muhammad Ali fan (and, in fact, I pulled for his opponent in every one of his fights except one), but I rank Muhammad Ali as the greatest heavyweight of all time.
I remember that Ray Lampkin, a very capable lightweight, did very well against Roberto Duran before being stopped in a late round and sustaining a severe brain injury during a bout which took place in Panama. There was some doubt that Lampkin was going to survive after being taken to the hospital, but he did pull through and would go on to have some more bouts.
But it was obvious that Lampkin was a shell of his former self in his bouts after he fought Duran. As a result, boxing authorities became very uneasy. In fact, Lampkin was not permitted to fight in a scheduled bout in California after he looked unsteady on his legs in a bout which took place in another state.
It was thought that Duran had not trained diligently for his bout with Lampkin. One thing for sure, he was not at his best during the bout.
I was told by Ike Williams' half-brother that of all the opponents Williams faced in the ring, there was only one that he truly did not like, and that was Jimmy Carter. I was told that Williams took a personal grudge into the ring when they fought.
Chuck1052 wrote:I remember that Ray Lampkin, a very capable lightweight, did very well against Roberto Duran before being stopped in a late round and sustaining a severe brain injury during a bout which took place in Panama. There was some doubt that Lampkin was going to survive after being taken to the hospital, but he did pull through and would go on to have some more bouts.
But it was obvious that Lampkin was a shell of his former self in his bouts after he fought Duran. As a result, boxing authorities became very uneasy. In fact, Lampkin was not permitted to fight in a scheduled bout in California after he looked unsteady on his legs in a bout which took place in another state.
It was thought that Duran had not trained diligently for his bout with Lampkin. One thing for sure, he was not at his best during the bout.
- Chuck Johnston
Chuck, I remember the Duran Lampkin fight very well. I watched it with several friends and my manager at the time, Mel Epstein. I recall when the fight ended, Lampkin was in bad shape, and they had a hard time reviving him. I also remember Duran's word's in the post-fight interview, when asked if he was concerned about his opponents health. Duran shook his head and said, "I don't care if he dies", or something to that effect. I agree, Duran was not at his best and Lampkin had given him a good fight.
When I think of Lampkin I remember him KOing one of my friends, Pete Vital Jr., at the Olympic. Lampkin took Pete out in the first round. Shortly thereafter, Vital's career came to a sudden end when he lost a thumb in an industrial accident.
Chuck1052 wrote:I remember that Ray Lampkin, a very capable lightweight, did very well against Roberto Duran before being stopped in a late round and sustaining a severe brain injury during a bout which took place in Panama. There was some doubt that Lampkin was going to survive after being taken to the hospital, but he did pull through and would go on to have some more bouts.
But it was obvious that Lampkin was a shell of his former self in his bouts after he fought Duran. As a result, boxing authorities became very uneasy. In fact, Lampkin was not permitted to fight in a scheduled bout in California after he looked unsteady on his legs in a bout which took place in another state.
It was thought that Duran had not trained diligently for his bout with Lampkin. One thing for sure, he was not at his best during the bout.
- Chuck Johnston
Chuck, I remember the Duran Lampkin fight very well. I watched it with several friends and my manager at the time, Mel Epstein. I recall when the fight ended, Lampkin was in bad shape, and they had a hard time reviving him. I also remember Duran's word's in the post-fight interview, when asked if he was concerned about his opponents health. Duran shook his head and said, "I don't care if he dies", or something to that effect. I agree, Duran was not at his best and Lampkin had given him a good fight.
When I think of Lampkin I remember him KOing one of my friends, Pete Vital Jr., at the Olympic. Lampkin took Pete out in the first round. Shortly thereafter, Vital's career came to a sudden end when he lost a thumb in an industrial accident.
-Rick Farris
I think Duran said, almost verbatim "next time I keel him". I remember that fight too. Lampkin gave Duran fits. Duran was not in the best of shape. That problem of gaining wait and losing it for an upcoming fight would plague Duran throughout his career.
I also remember that Roberto Duran's knockout of Ray Lampkin was shown at the end of many CBS Sports Spectacular telecasts, which I thought was a lack of class on the part of CBS due to the fact that Lampkin ended up fighting for his life in the hospital after the bout.
I've seen Roberto Duran destroy sparring partners at LA's Main Street Gym. He did a number on me when I weighed about a 130 pounds, in a one-time sparring session. I've never forgotten that day, and I wrote about it. Today, in light of Duran's greatness, I take pride in being able to claim that "I know" what it feels like to be hit by Roberto's infamous "Hands of Stone".
However, the worst beating I remember seeing Duran lay on an opponent was his "past prime" destruction of unbeaten world junior middleweight champ, Davey Moore. I taped that match when it was replayed on TV shortly after the match. I played that match so many times I finally wore out the VHS tape I'd used to record it. I would play it back in both slow-motion and stop-action. If you do this, you can catch the impact of Duran's fists on Moore's face. We've all seen that classic shot of Rocky Marciano landing his fabled "Suzy Q" on the jaw of Jersey Joe Walcott. You know the one, with Jersey Joe's face destorted beyond recognition before he slowly sank to the canvas, one arm hooked on the ropes.
Similar shots are seen thruout the video of Duran pummeling Moore. I'll say this for the Davey Moore, he had the courage to hang in when referee Ernesto Magana refused to halt a match, one in which a boxer very easily could have been killed.
I don't know which was worse, Duran's legit destruction of Moore, or the prelim that night in which Billy Collins was battered by Luis Resto's gloves, which had it's padding removed by Panama Lewis. I don't have a weak stomach. I know what boxing is about, but I'm sure there were some people watching that night that never agagin attended a professional fight.
As I have said before, I loved Duran as a champion. He did what a fighter is supposed to do, but what few the abilty to do.
As I mentioned, I saw Duran do his work on other sparring partners. When I stepped in with him, he was preparing for a non-title fight with Javiar Ayala. The next time I would see Duran box at the Main Street Gym was ten years later, when he was training for his first fiught at 155 lbs. against former welter champ, Pipino Cuevas.
On this day, Duran was working with a middleweight from Mexico named Kid Dynamite. Duran beat the kid so badly that the fighter's father (who was also his trainer) attacked Duran in the ring. Within moments, both the fighter and his father were on the canvas. Kid Dynamite left the ring incoherent, his father bleeding from a big gash on his forehead. The gym was packed, and Duran became vocal, yelling expletives in Spanish at the predominatly Mexican crowd. I couldn't understand what he was saying, but a guy next to me said Duran was chiding Mexican boxers. I found that a bit ironic, since Roberto Duran's father is Mexican-American. Roberto Duran is not 100% Panamanian, his father was a U.S. soldier from Arizona, who came to Panama with the U.S. Army, impregnated Duran's mother, then returned to the States after his tour of duty.
Poor Pipino Cuevas, he didn't fare much better than Kid Dynamite when he stepped into the ring against Roberto in Los Angeles. Duran's next fight wouldd be with Davey Moore.
That's the Duran I remember. That's the Duran I respect. A fighter!
Great post about Duran Rick.
Its tremendous that you were able to get in there with him also.What a great memory and experience.
I dont knowif I posted before about the time Duran came to Chicago to fight.He was here in the late eighties to fight a kid named Jeff lanas.
He stopped by the gym I trained at with Juan Nazario who was also fighting on the card.
They sparred and I thought Nazario ran rings around him. Roberto was in no kind of shape at all.
At one point after the bell rang to end one of the rounds, Duran started giving me the manson eyes because I kept right on working the speed bag during the break. But thats what fighters do on the speed bag. You hit it continuously. You dont do it by rounds.
I gave the stare back to him for a few seconds. It felt like awhile. Hell, at that point I didnt care that it was Duran. This was the gym I trained in.
In the fight vs Lanas, at The old Chicago Ampitheatre which is now gone, Duran looked bad in copping a dec. over Lanas.
Lotta people thought he was at the end of his rope. They thought he should shut it down.
Next thing you knew, he beats Iran Barkley for another belt. Duran was a great fighter man. When he was in shape, look out.
As far as Ike Williams - Duran, what a fight that would be! Ike could do it all also. He also punched harder than Duran in my opinion. Duran was more of an accumulation knockout artist. He could fight well defensively and counterpunch also.
Im not saying that Id bet on Ike, but he would make it very very competitive.
Rick Farris wrote:The Most Brutal Post Lightweight Duran . . .
I've seen Roberto Duran destroy sparring partners at LA's Main Street Gym. He did a number on me when I weighed about a 130 pounds, in a one-time sparring session. I've never forgotten that day, and I wrote about it. Today, in light of Duran's greatness, I take pride in being able to claim that "I know" what it feels like to be hit by Roberto's infamous "Hands of Stone".
However, the worst beating I remember seeing Duran lay on an opponent was his "past prime" destruction of unbeaten world junior middleweight champ, Davey Moore. I taped that match when it was replayed on TV shortly after the match. I played that match so many times I finally wore out the VHS tape I'd used to record it. I would play it back in both slow-motion and stop-action. If you do this, you can catch the impact of Duran's fists on Moore's face. We've all seen that classic shot of Rocky Marciano landing his fabled "Suzy Q" on the jaw of Jersey Joe Walcott. You know the one, with Jersey Joe's face destorted beyond recognition before he slowly sank to the canvas, one arm hooked on the ropes.
Similar shots are seen thruout the video of Duran pummeling Moore. I'll say this for the Davey Moore, he had the courage to hang in when referee Ernesto Magana refused to halt a match, one in which a boxer very easily could have been killed.
I don't know which was worse, Duran's legit destruction of Moore, or the prelim that night in which Billy Collins was battered by Luis Resto's gloves, which had it's padding removed by Panama Lewis. I don't have a weak stomach. I know what boxing is about, but I'm sure there were some people watching that night that never agagin attended a professional fight.
As I have said before, I loved Duran as a champion. He did what a fighter is supposed to do, but what few the abilty to do.
As I mentioned, I saw Duran do his work on other sparring partners. When I stepped in with him, he was preparing for a non-title fight with Javiar Ayala. The next time I would see Duran box at the Main Street Gym was ten years later, when he was training for his first fiught at 155 lbs. against former welter champ, Pipino Cuevas.
On this day, Duran was working with a middleweight from Mexico named Kid Dynamite. Duran beat the kid so badly that the fighter's father (who was also his trainer) attacked Duran in the ring. Within moments, both the fighter and his father were on the canvas. Kid Dynamite left the ring incoherent, his father bleeding from a big gash on his forehead. The gym was packed, and Duran became vocal, yelling expletives in Spanish at the predominatly Mexican crowd. I couldn't understand what he was saying, but a guy next to me said Duran was chiding Mexican boxers. I found that a bit ironic, since Roberto Duran's father is Mexican-American. Roberto Duran is not 100% Panamanian, his father was a U.S. soldier from Arizona, who came to Panama with the U.S. Army, impregnated Duran's mother, then returned to the States after his tour of duty.
Poor Pipino Cuevas, he didn't fare much better than Kid Dynamite when he stepped into the ring against Roberto in Los Angeles. Duran's next fight wouldd be with Davey Moore.
That's the Duran I remember. That's the Duran I respect. A fighter!
-Rick Farris
I blame Lionel Washington, Moore's 'trainer', as much as the shell-shocked referee. Why on earth did he send Moore out for the eighth round?
Sometimes I feel like the Lone Ranger when it comes to Muhammad Ali. I grew up watching him. Ali was the heavyweight champion of my youth. Granted he had some stinkers but I think overall he has proved himself to be an all time great heavy. The best? Well that probably comes down to opinion.
I wrote about Joe Frazier a while back. I meant everything I said about him. Joe has my respect but so does Ali. When he came back after being stripped of his title he was a different fighter. he was flat footed and no longer had the quick flashy foot movement, though he had brief moments when he could still wow the crowd.I don't know that Ali ducked anyone in his career and he took the heavyweight championship to an international level, fighting across the globe. he never made excuses when he lost and in those times when he was really tested he rose to the occasion. In his toughest fights he showed the kind of heart that we write about here on these pages.
We had a Christmas show here in the 1970s, The Morecambe and Wise Show, which got so big that people would judge their entire Christmas on the show's quality. The pressure became immense on (Eric) Morecambe and he croaked it from a heart attack. The same concept happened to Ali, who got too big and eventually...
I posted a couple of days ago in the boxers of the past forum its still on there titled '' Are some boxing judges corrupt or just incompetent'' ? i wanted to see the different peoples view on the subject and of course here comes granberry as rude and condescending as ever Mr. know it all himself he can never just give a regular reply he always must put someone down always talks about all the philly fighters he has been associated with,I would bet this clown has never been in a gym before
THEHAMMER321 wrote:I posted a couple of days ago in the boxers of the past forum its still on there titled '' Are some boxing judges corrupt or just incompetent'' ? i wanted to see the different peoples view on the subject and of course here comes granberry as rude and condescending as ever Mr. know it all himself he can never just give a regular reply he always must put someone down always talks about all the philly fighters he has been associated with,I would bet this clown has never been in a gym before
A governor is photographed trysting with a transsexual by policemen who are later arrested on extortion charges. There are two suspected murders and, oh yes, Premier Berlusconi figures as well.
By Jeffrey Fleishman
March 5, 2010
Reporting from Rome - The governor made off to a monastery after having affairs with transsexuals, but not before the cops videotaped a tryst, all flesh and white powder, and offered to sell copies to a magazine owned by the prime minister, who, at the time, was rumored to be entangled with an underage Neapolitan model.
Then one of the transsexuals, a Brazilian named Brenda, turned up naked and dead, her laptop computer submerged under a running tap. Oh, yeah, and the drug dealer who supplied cocaine to the governor and Brenda would meet his own demise. It's an odd coincidence.
Note to reader: The writer would love to pretend he has made all this up, but this is Italy, where one's imagination pales beside the operatic brio of real-life librettos that unfold with delicious, unseemly decadence.
Piero Marrazzo, a married governor and onetime crusading TV reporter, was having a dalliance with Natalie on a July afternoon when four cops burst into her apartment and began recording with a cellphone camera. Marrazzo, blushing in his skivvies, found himself the victim of blackmail, while Natalie, a transsexual with an artistic flair for makeup, hit YouTube and the news show circuit.
Marrazzo resigned his government post and reportedly sought refuge in a Benedictine monastery. The police officers were arrested and charged with extorting about $27,500 from Marrazzo to keep the video hush-hush, even as they were peddling their scratchy little production to potential buyers.
Unpleasant as it all was, the tawdriness might have vanished in the clamor of unending Italian scandals had Brenda, who was Natalie's friend and Marrazzo's other lover, not been found dead in November.
She was asphyxiated when a suitcase surrounded by candles caught fire in her flat, filling it with smoke. Police say Brenda was drinking heavily and may have passed out, but that doesn't explain why the laptop had been doused. It's just the kind of revelation that sends the Italian media into a buzzing espresso high.
What was on the computer? More politicians in various throes of ecstasy and stages of undress?
Prosecutor Giancarlo Capaldo doesn't think so. Investigators found no incriminating tales on the hard drive, but Capaldo, a circumspect man, believes that Brenda was slain and so was the drug dealer, Gianguerino Cafasso, who overdosed in September on heroin and cocaine.
People here mutter of a byzantine, puppet-master political conspiracy to set up Marrazzo, an opposition center-left politician, and rub out anyone connected with the case, but there's no proof. It appears to be a blackmail scheme by sloppy cops, but in Italy -- think of poor Caesar -- the tantalizing aura of political intrigue is too hard to ignore.
"We don't know if anyone outside of the four officers was involved," Capaldo said, predicting that the killings would be solved within weeks, but not disclosing the identities of the suspects. "The crime has potential political value. It speaks to the kind of political battle that's fashionable these days in which one reaches to destroy his enemy not on the political stage but on a personal level."
Enter billionaire Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, whose ego is somewhere between the size of his wardrobe and his bank account. A magazine in his media empire, Chi, was offered the video of Marrazzo and Natalie; the cops were arrested before negotiations got very far. But Berlusconi, a center-right politician, knows a political gift when he sees one. He likes to remind voters of Marrazzo's, shall we say, exotic sexual proclivities while hinting at, but not quite admitting, his own more traditional conquests.
Berlusconi, 73, has denied allegations of an affair with the teenage model, saying that nothing "spicy" happened. He has also suggested he was unaware that women at his villas, some romping naked, others dressed as Santa Claus, were escorts. His wife wants a divorce.
In a speech last month, the prime minister said, "When I see women, you know, I lose the thread of the conversation. But do you prefer people like me or the other ones, Marrazzo, for example?"
Ouch.
Word in the Italian press is that Marrazzo has done his penance and quit the monastery. He wants his old job back on state TV, which in a strange way may make him beholden to Berlusconi, who as head of the government has influence within the network.
Which brings us back to where it all started: Natalie's apartment on Via Gradoli, the street where decades ago the leader of Italy's murderous Red Brigades lived and the nation's intelligence services reportedly rented addresses.
The portiere said that Natalie had left to spend time north in Perugia. Via Gradoli led to a wider boulevard and then to Via Due Ponti, where, through an underpass and up a hill, the door to Brenda's flat was crisscrossed with police tape.
Brazilian transsexual prostitutes peeked from doorways; it was afternoon and they had yet to put on their working faces. China, as she calls herself, said, "Brenda could have been murdered. There's lots of fear. It's a big mess. Oh, and by the way, I only grant interviews if I get paid."
She waved her hand and disappeared upstairs to meet Raphael, another friend of Brenda who also intimately knew Marrazzo, but like China, talks only for money. Alessia strolled up wearing a knit cap and carrying a purse of blue feathers. She said Brenda threw tantrums, took drugs and often seemed lost.
"But then she started seeing Marrazzo," she said. "He came here many afternoons, and Brenda told me, 'Alessia, we have no problems anymore.' So we went shopping."
Alessia glanced down at her ripped coat and unpainted nails: "I become more beautiful at night."
China signaled from upstairs for Alessia to stop talking for free. Alessia considered this, mumbled something about a nightmare and wandered away.
Doors closed and it grew quiet on the edge of town.
A governor is photographed trysting with a transsexual by policemen who are later arrested on extortion charges. There are two suspected murders and, oh yes, Premier Berlusconi figures as well.
By Jeffrey Fleishman
March 5, 2010
Reporting from Rome - The governor made off to a monastery after having affairs with transsexuals, but not before the cops videotaped a tryst, all flesh and white powder, and offered to sell copies to a magazine owned by the prime minister, who, at the time, was rumored to be entangled with an underage Neapolitan model.
Then one of the transsexuals, a Brazilian named Brenda, turned up naked and dead, her laptop computer submerged under a running tap. Oh, yeah, and the drug dealer who supplied cocaine to the governor and Brenda would meet his own demise. It's an odd coincidence.
Note to reader: The writer would love to pretend he has made all this up, but this is Italy, where one's imagination pales beside the operatic brio of real-life librettos that unfold with delicious, unseemly decadence.
Piero Marrazzo, a married governor and onetime crusading TV reporter, was having a dalliance with Natalie on a July afternoon when four cops burst into her apartment and began recording with a cellphone camera. Marrazzo, blushing in his skivvies, found himself the victim of blackmail, while Natalie, a transsexual with an artistic flair for makeup, hit YouTube and the news show circuit.
Marrazzo resigned his government post and reportedly sought refuge in a Benedictine monastery. The police officers were arrested and charged with extorting about $27,500 from Marrazzo to keep the video hush-hush, even as they were peddling their scratchy little production to potential buyers.
Unpleasant as it all was, the tawdriness might have vanished in the clamor of unending Italian scandals had Brenda, who was Natalie's friend and Marrazzo's other lover, not been found dead in November.
She was asphyxiated when a suitcase surrounded by candles caught fire in her flat, filling it with smoke. Police say Brenda was drinking heavily and may have passed out, but that doesn't explain why the laptop had been doused. It's just the kind of revelation that sends the Italian media into a buzzing espresso high.
What was on the computer? More politicians in various throes of ecstasy and stages of undress?
Prosecutor Giancarlo Capaldo doesn't think so. Investigators found no incriminating tales on the hard drive, but Capaldo, a circumspect man, believes that Brenda was slain and so was the drug dealer, Gianguerino Cafasso, who overdosed in September on heroin and cocaine.
People here mutter of a byzantine, puppet-master political conspiracy to set up Marrazzo, an opposition center-left politician, and rub out anyone connected with the case, but there's no proof. It appears to be a blackmail scheme by sloppy cops, but in Italy -- think of poor Caesar -- the tantalizing aura of political intrigue is too hard to ignore.
"We don't know if anyone outside of the four officers was involved," Capaldo said, predicting that the killings would be solved within weeks, but not disclosing the identities of the suspects. "The crime has potential political value. It speaks to the kind of political battle that's fashionable these days in which one reaches to destroy his enemy not on the political stage but on a personal level."
Enter billionaire Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, whose ego is somewhere between the size of his wardrobe and his bank account. A magazine in his media empire, Chi, was offered the video of Marrazzo and Natalie; the cops were arrested before negotiations got very far. But Berlusconi, a center-right politician, knows a political gift when he sees one. He likes to remind voters of Marrazzo's, shall we say, exotic sexual proclivities while hinting at, but not quite admitting, his own more traditional conquests.
Berlusconi, 73, has denied allegations of an affair with the teenage model, saying that nothing "spicy" happened. He has also suggested he was unaware that women at his villas, some romping naked, others dressed as Santa Claus, were escorts. His wife wants a divorce.
In a speech last month, the prime minister said, "When I see women, you know, I lose the thread of the conversation. But do you prefer people like me or the other ones, Marrazzo, for example?"
Ouch.
Word in the Italian press is that Marrazzo has done his penance and quit the monastery. He wants his old job back on state TV, which in a strange way may make him beholden to Berlusconi, who as head of the government has influence within the network.
Which brings us back to where it all started: Natalie's apartment on Via Gradoli, the street where decades ago the leader of Italy's murderous Red Brigades lived and the nation's intelligence services reportedly rented addresses.
The portiere said that Natalie had left to spend time north in Perugia. Via Gradoli led to a wider boulevard and then to Via Due Ponti, where, through an underpass and up a hill, the door to Brenda's flat was crisscrossed with police tape.
Brazilian transsexual prostitutes peeked from doorways; it was afternoon and they had yet to put on their working faces. China, as she calls herself, said, "Brenda could have been murdered. There's lots of fear. It's a big mess. Oh, and by the way, I only grant interviews if I get paid."
She waved her hand and disappeared upstairs to meet Raphael, another friend of Brenda who also intimately knew Marrazzo, but like China, talks only for money. Alessia strolled up wearing a knit cap and carrying a purse of blue feathers. She said Brenda threw tantrums, took drugs and often seemed lost.
"But then she started seeing Marrazzo," she said. "He came here many afternoons, and Brenda told me, 'Alessia, we have no problems anymore.' So we went shopping."
Alessia glanced down at her ripped coat and unpainted nails: "I become more beautiful at night."
China signaled from upstairs for Alessia to stop talking for free. Alessia considered this, mumbled something about a nightmare and wandered away.
Doors closed and it grew quiet on the edge of town.
jeffrey.fleishman
@latimes.com
WE'RE MEN.WE CAN DO WHATEVER WE WANT
Again taking that line out of The Bicycle Thief when the father is talking to his young son and they're sitting in the restaurant and the father orders a bottle of wine. The young son says that if mother knew she would get angry.The father's response was,"We're men.We can do whatever we want."
An Anglo asked me once what the hell is "macho"?The word is Latin in context. To me it has a simple explanation:A man can do anything he wants and it comes off as being masculine. Is it an act?Is it the way he's been brought up?Is it the way he feels? Something with genetics?
I'm sure these guys that got caught on tape with these she males felt they still were "the cocks of the walk". The thing is their cocks got them caught in an embarrassing situation. I'm sure the embarrassment is the only feeling they felt bacause their mothers would understand that they couldn't help themselves.
Ever see an Italian soccer match?Some player will get bumped on his little pinky and he'll roll around on the ground grabbing his head screaming like he was on fire. But he's a man so it never detracts from his macho feeling he has about himself. Remember ,he's a man.And he lets the women of the "Boot" know it. Just ask his mother if he's a man. The irony to that answer is something like,"Of course.My little boy is a man."
I've always felt Italian/Americans are different than the homey Italians. Italian /Americans are a tougher breed. Use fighters as an analogy. The two Rocky's,Basilio,Giardello,LaMotta,Willie Pep. I don't ever remember any of those guys rolling around on the canvas from getting punched on their little pinky.
Last edited by dagosd2000 on 06 Mar 2010, 11:57, edited 1 time in total.
kikibalt wrote: Yaqui Lopez landing a crunching right on Rick Farris
Every time I look at Yaqui, I see S-T-O-C-K-T-O-N.
Two of my favorite people but Frankie I think you use the camera more than an asian tourist in Disneyland
When I was at the WBHOF banquet dinner,I was sitting at the same table with Yaqui Lopez and his family. I'm looking at him and thinking,"here's one tough SOB." Everytime I've been around Yaqui,he's always exuded a smile and a laugh. One of the many fighters I always respected as being a true warrior. I took a picture of him and he gave me the thumbs up and a wide grin. Then he says he wants to take a picture of me with him standing side by side. He invites his family to be in the shot too.
"I want a picture of me standing next to the famous artist,"said Yaqui proudly.
I felt like Yaqui racked up another KO with that gracious comment.
THEHAMMER321 wrote:I posted a couple of days ago in the boxers of the past forum its still on there titled '' Are some boxing judges corrupt or just incompetent'' ? i wanted to see the different peoples view on the subject and of course here comes granberry as rude and condescending as ever Mr. know it all himself he can never just give a regular reply he always must put someone down always talks about all the philly fighters he has been associated with,I would bet this clown has never been in a gym before
Hammer, you hit the nail on the head when you asked if the majority of today's ring officials are "corrupt or incompetent", however to be perfectly accurate, I think the word "or" might best be replaced with "and". I see today's officials as both corrupt and incompetent. Forget the influenced decisions, what concerns me is the safety of the boxers. A referee takes into the ring responsibiulity for the health and safety of the boxers. Prizefighters have been known to quit on occasion, but for the most part, they fight like gladiators, their pride allows them to "will themselves" beyond the human instinct for survival. It's not just about money when two men go toe-to-toe, it's far deeper than that.
A competent, experienced ring offical will see what's happening and prevent it.
