USA (Roster) For Italy Dual April 2nd Reno Nevada

[Jamel]

Head Coach
Pat Barry

Assistant Coaches
Steve Blea
Rodrigo Mosquera
John Santore

Athletes
Mikela Mayer
Santos Vasquez
Louie Byrd
Rau'Shee Warren
Jamel Herring
Robert Brant
Jesse Hart
Adrian Martinez
Javonta Charles
Errol Spence
Jesus Magdelano
Lenroy Thompson

[TwoFistedPiston]

Careful the Italians don't bitch out like they did last night


IRELAND VS ITALY(ABANDONED)

The Ireland versus Italy international at the Donegal Celtic Club in Belfast was abandoned last night after Italy withdrew their team with seven bouts remaining.

It is understood that Italy, who were 4-1 down, were unhappy with the judging.
Ireland, who beat the Italians 7-5 at the National Stadium in Dublin on Friday, had won four of the first five bouts in Belfast when Italy withdrew after David Oliver Joyce, a two times European Union champion, produced a superb performance to beat current World lightweight champion and AIBA World boxer of the year Domenico Valentino 8-4.

This was the second time in the space of 48 hours that Valentino was beaten by a St Michael's Athy man as he finished on the wrong side of an 11-8 decision to an equally impressive performance from Eric Donovan at the National Stadium on Friday.

Paddy Barnes, a bronze medal winner at the Beijing Olympics and officially ranked ninth in the world, Michael Conlon, James Friars and Joyce all won their bouts on Sunday night, leaving Ireland just two victories short of winning the double header on aggregate.

Barnes, who moved up from light flyweight for the international in his home town, was in top form, a 17-2 win over Alex Ferramosca nudging Ireland into a 2-0 lead on the night.

[JMac]

Ireland pulled a fast one on the US when they were last there by going with 5 judges. That would not be a problem if the US brought 3 judges but they only had 2 so the US was always at a disadvantage. In dual meets, it is usually judged with 3 judges with the country who is ref'ing, the other country gets 2 judges. In dual matches, judges almost always favor their own countries boxer. It gets ridiculous sometimes. The US should have told Ireland they would not box with 5 judges.
I will be biased and say that in the USA, a foriegn country stands a much better chance of getting a fair decision in duals then anywhere else.

With that said, I'm not saying Ireland did not deserve their wins vs the Italians. Bot teams have some very good boxers. I wonder if they tried to go with 5 judges again.

[Dennis]

Ireland pulled a fast one on the US when they were last there by going with 5 judges. That would not be a problem if the US brought 3 judges but they only had 2 so the US was always at a disadvantage. In dual meets, it is usually judged with 3 judges with the country who is ref'ing, the other country gets 2 judges. In dual matches, judges almost always favor their own countries boxer. It gets ridiculous sometimes. The US should have told Ireland they would not box with 5 judges.
I will be biased and say that in the USA, a foriegn country stands a much better chance of getting a fair decision in duals then anywhere else.

With that said, I'm not saying Ireland did not deserve their wins vs the Italians. Bot teams have some very good boxers. I wonder if they tried to go with 5 judges again.

You nailed it on the head JMac.

[locoxelbox]

I will be biased and say that in the USA, a foriegn country stands a much better chance of getting a fair decision in duals then anywhere else.

DD Yes, you are biased. There are so many americans that do good on dual meets at home turf and then they go out early at international events. I remember ESPN used to show the US dual meets and they weren´t different from others. At the USA-Cuba duals there used to be a war between the judges. They had neutral judges but the canadians favored the americans and the mexicans favored the cubans so you got the usual 3-2 decisions .

[Dennis]

I think the duals in the USA were quite fair. In fact the officials from the other countries tend to be quite biased towards their countries' boxers and the USA officials aren't so we seem to lose more than we should, but still better than what happens when our boxers go to the other countries with "hometown" officiating. On neutral terf with neutral judges our boxers do OK against the best in the world and I think the officiating is fair. Think the World Championships here.

[Jamel]

USAB Staff

Cathy Newell
Mike Martino
Anthony Bartkowsi
Ashley Gartland

Team Manager

Robert Lee

AIBA Offical

Tom Cleary (Ohio)

Chief Of Officals

Miguel Rosario (New York)

Neutral Offical

Eduardo Garcia (Mexico)

[El Raincoat]

Anyone know what team the Italian's are sending?

I wonder if Cammarelle, Russo & Valentino will be in the Italian team.

[Dennis]

From what I have heard, Italy is sending its #1 team, including those three boxers.

[locoxelbox]

I think the duals in the USA were quite fair. In fact the officials from the other countries tend to be quite biased towards their countries' boxers and the USA officials aren't so we seem to lose more than we should, but still better than what happens when our boxers go to the other countries with "hometown" officiating. On neutral terf with neutral judges our boxers do OK against the best in the world and I think the officiating is fair. Think the World Championships here.

Is´s impossible to eliminate the subjectiveness from the scoring. Nobody thinks they are at fault. It always the others that cheat. At the 1998 Goodwill Games in New York the russians threatened to leave the tournament in protest against the scoring favoring US boxers. At the 1999 Worlds in Houston the cubans DID leave as a protest against the scoring. They left after the Gaidalov-Hernandez bout but they were already were pissed of after the Viloria-Maikro Romero bout.
USA have won 9 gold medals at the three World Championships at home turf. In all other 12 editions of the Worlds they managed to win only 7 titles. And the scoring has nothing to do with it?
I know there aren´t sitting US judges at their boxers bouts but judges tend to favor the home boxer everywhere. Yes, even in the US.

[Demy]

Anyone know what team the Italian's are sending?

I wonder if Cammarelle, Russo & Valentino will be in the Italian team.

They will be there

[Dennis]

I think the duals in the USA were quite fair. In fact the officials from the other countries tend to be quite biased towards their countries' boxers and the USA officials aren't so we seem to lose more than we should, but still better than what happens when our boxers go to the other countries with "hometown" officiating. On neutral terf with neutral judges our boxers do OK against the best in the world and I think the officiating is fair. Think the World Championships here.

Is´s impossible to eliminate the subjectiveness from the scoring. Nobody thinks they are at fault. It always the others that cheat. At the 1998 Goodwill Games in New York the russians threatened to leave the tournament in protest against the scoring favoring US boxers. At the 1999 Worlds in Houston the cubans DID leave as a protest against the scoring. They left after the Gaidalov-Hernandez bout but they were already were pissed of after the Viloria-Maikro Romero bout.
USA have won 9 gold medals at the three World Championships at home turf. In all other 12 editions of the Worlds they managed to win only 7 titles. And the scoring has nothing to do with it?
I know there aren´t sitting US judges at their boxers bouts but judges tend to favor the home boxer everywhere. Yes, even in the US.

Are judges being influenced by the cheering from the home country crowds? LOL. I do know that the USA is not that well liked in many parts of the world and I think that negatively effects the scoring. You are correct that everybody always thinks the judging is fair when it is skewed in their favor.

[JMac]

I will be biased and say that in the USA, a foriegn country stands a much better chance of getting a fair decision in duals then anywhere else.

DD Yes, you are biased. There are so many americans that do good on dual meets at home turf and then they go out early at international events. I remember ESPN used to show the US dual meets and they weren´t different from others. At the USA-Cuba duals there used to be a war between the judges. They had neutral judges but the canadians favored the americans and the mexicans favored the cubans so you got the usual 3-2 decisions .

I think the last time USA boxed Cuba in a dual was in '88 in Atlantic City. Domingo Solano from the DR was the neutral and he didn't give USA one bout and the US team was loaded with talent. ESPN hasn't shown a dual since about '04. Most of the duals US has participated at home in the last 20 years were against Canada, PR, Mexico, Ireland and occasionally Russia. There have been countries like Belarus, China and Brazil that have come once.
Having been to 10 world championships plus the Pan Am and Olympic games, in my experience, the US does not get many breaks. Yes, when the US has hosted tournaments, the team has done OK because there always seems to be favoritisim shown to the host country. During my time on the international level, it has been a time in world politics that the USA was not well thought of internationally and it showed in the scoring. Don't forget, the US is always losing good young boxers to the pros like a Frankie Gomez so we end up sending guys with little or no international experience.

[Dennis]

JMac is correct. We also have to remember those boxers with very little or no international experience are typically going up against boxers with dozens or more international bouts. That comfort level of having the prior experience helps immensely. It is like a novice boxer competing against an open boxer. Don't forget that the international bouts are officiated differently too. The referees allow more fouls and the judges don't score the same blows that local/national judges do. I know that some AIBA officials will do local and national tournaments, but most of the time the officials are not AIBA at those tournaments. The different handwraps, different gloves, and different headgear also take a little getting used to by the boxers.

[locoxelbox]

Hey guys, you´ve got more excuses than my former girlfriend .
So you mean other countries are very biased to their boxers but US officials are not?

In fact the officials from the other countries tend to be quite biased towards their countries' boxers and the USA officials aren't so we seem to lose more than we should

We also have to remember those boxers with very little or no international experience are typically going up against boxers with dozens or more international bouts. That comfort level of having the prior experience helps immensely. It is like a novice boxer competing against an open boxer. Don't forget that the international bouts are officiated differently too. The referees allow more fouls and the judges don't score the same blows that local/national judges do. I know that some AIBA officials will do local and national tournaments, but most of the time the officials are not AIBA at those tournaments. The different handwraps, different gloves, and different headgear also take a little getting used to by the boxers.

Dennis, with that attitude you already lost before the bout has started. You are telling your boxers they won´t stand a chance because all others are so much more experienced.

By the way, didn´t Jesus Magdaleno with little or no international experience beat the most decorated US amateur of the last decade Raushee Warren? Didn´t a 17-year old Raushee Warren beat much more experienced Rayonta Whitfield? Or Frankie Gomez who beat two-time olympian Gyula Kate at the Worlds. Quality beats experience many times.

[Dennis]

I think the USA boxers have a lot of talent and many times our talent alone wins bouts/tournaments. However, with our talent and more experience we do even better. Many boxers just need to experience some international bouts before they gain their confidence and get into a comfort zone and then really do well. How many boxers win their first national open tournament versus boxers who win a national tournament after they have been to a few. I don't think it is that hard to understand that most boxers will do better with some prior experience.

[locoxelbox]

Yeah, of course they need more experience. I meant you can´t just blame experience and poor judging if you want to improve. In the 90íes and early 00´s the US teams had a lot of international competitions. And they didn´t do that well internationally (except when they fought at home at the 1996 Olympics and 1999 Worlds).

[Dennis]

There is a lot more parity in the sport worldwide now than there was 20-30 years ago. USA was the hotbed of boxing and it really isn't anymore. It is a much more popular sport in many other countries than in the U.S.