Beyer vs Green.winner to become the best Supermiddle weight?

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 02 Mar 2005, 10:15

Can't wait for this one, should be great. i think the winner of these two will become the best super middleweight?

any predictions?

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 02 Mar 2005, 10:21

Got to be Green by knockout, he was well on the way to that in the first fight.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 02 Mar 2005, 10:26

Markus Beyer KO7.

since working with a psychologist he is totally renewed. he won his last fight though he was floored. the old won would have given up.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 02 Mar 2005, 10:27

green early, Beyer later

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 02 Mar 2005, 10:32

when green win, he should go to the studio bitch slap sven ottke and fight him then

:P

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 02 Mar 2005, 10:34

REAL_DEAL wrote:when green whens, he should go to the studio bitch slap sven ottke and fight him then :P

to be fair a prime Ottke would have dealt with Green fairly easily!!

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 02 Mar 2005, 10:38

knockout wrote:
REAL_DEAL wrote:when green whens, he should go to the studio bitch slap sven ottke and fight him then :P
to be fair a prime Ottke would have dealt with Green fairly easily!!

absolutely, Green is not the superman.

Neri · Post by **Neri** » 02 Mar 2005, 10:41

Green in six

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 02 Mar 2005, 11:26

knockout wrote:green early, Beyer later

Good call, Green will need an early stoppage to win, the longer it drags on the more Beyer will take control...he may even have to get up off the canvas a few times first but his better Boxing will take over. Having said that if Green connects early then it could be lights out...i really wanted to go to this fight as well

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 02 Mar 2005, 11:42

steve689 wrote:
knockout wrote:green early, Beyer later
Good call, Green will need an early stoppage to win, the longer it drags on the more Beyer will take control...he may even have to get up off the canvas a few times first but his better Boxing will take over. Having said that if Green connects early then it could be lights out...i really wanted to go to this fight as well

Beyer is a bit chinny but his recovery his excellent..
he goes down but gets back up.... remember he got up from that monster Catley shot at the end of a hard 12 rounder...

Green nearly punched himself out against mega tough sullivan in a 10 rounder

Green will have been convinced he needs a KO to win so will go out all guns blazing (like all D-Man opponents used to do) if he weathers the storm then Green will be knackered and Beyer can stop him

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 02 Mar 2005, 11:51

steve689 wrote:
knockout wrote:green early, Beyer later
Good call, Green will need an early stoppage to win, the longer it drags on the more Beyer will take control...he may even have to get up off the canvas a few times first but his better Boxing will take over. Having said that if Green connects early then it could be lights out...i really wanted to go to this fight as well

there are still tickets available. And Zwickau isn´t that expensive.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 02 Mar 2005, 11:52

Yeah Green loves a tear-up but it is whether he can keep it up when Beyer keeps getting up, Beyer was decked last time out by Yoshinori Nishizawa as well.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 02 Mar 2005, 11:52

knockout wrote:
steve689 wrote:
knockout wrote:green early, Beyer later
Good call, Green will need an early stoppage to win, the longer it drags on the more Beyer will take control...he may even have to get up off the canvas a few times first but his better Boxing will take over. Having said that if Green connects early then it could be lights out...i really wanted to go to this fight as well
Beyer is a bit chinny but his recovery his excellent..
he goes down but gets back up.... remember he got up from that monster Catley shot at the end of a hard 12 rounder...

Green nearly punched himself out against mega tough sullivan in a 10 rounder

Green will have been convinced he needs a KO to win so will go out all guns blazing (like all D-Man opponents used to do) if he weathers the storm then Green will be knackered and Beyer can stop him

this sounds realistic. i hope Beyer wins this way.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Mar 2005, 11:56

knockout wrote:
steve689 wrote:
knockout wrote:green early, Beyer later
Good call, Green will need an early stoppage to win, the longer it drags on the more Beyer will take control...he may even have to get up off the canvas a few times first but his better Boxing will take over. Having said that if Green connects early then it could be lights out...i really wanted to go to this fight as well
Beyer is a bit chinny but his recovery his excellent..
he goes down but gets back up.... remember he got up from that monster Catley shot at the end of a hard 12 rounder...

Green nearly punched himself out against mega tough sullivan in a 10 rounder

Green will have been convinced he needs a KO to win so will go out all guns blazing (like all D-Man opponents used to do) if he weathers the storm then Green will be knackered and Beyer can stop him

Yes, this is something which I feel many foriegn fighters challenging in Germany have found against certain fighters. You only have to look at the fornicating ludicrous scorecards for the Ottke v Reid fight (where rounds Ottke clearly won were given to Reid, to make up for the fact that they had given almost all of the 1st 6 rounds to Ottke and make the scoring look fairer), to see that they often had a point.

I think that the promoters in Germany generally have done a sterling job of laying on the hospitality for officials to curry favour for their fighters.

This is something which should be totally banned in boxing, Promoters, Manager etc should be allowed to have absolutely NO CONTACT with the officials before or after the fight.

You don't get a tennis umpire being put up in Hotel by Tim Henman's coach during wimbledon after all...

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 02 Mar 2005, 12:03

it´s only because of our good meals and beers.

Most of the judges who make "controversial scoring" in Germany are from the USA..... Funny, isn´t it?

J · Post by J » 02 Mar 2005, 12:04

JAMES DONT BRING UP THAT TWAT. T.H.

And i dont htink after some of the joke decisions we have seen of late that we should be condemning judging in other countries. we used to pride oursleves but of late its been pretty much a farce, Richie davis excepted.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 02 Mar 2005, 12:05

Good points, another case in point is Beyer-Lucas, Lucas should have been a mile ahead after the first four rounds but instead corrupt scoring meant Beyer was ahead. The way you describe the scenario is correct, build the house fighter into an unasailable and often undeserved comfortable lead and then pick off rounds to the other guy later on (ones he often hasn't won) all leading up to a close points loss for the away man.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 02 Mar 2005, 12:09

steve689 wrote:Good points, another case in point is Beyer-Lucas, Lucas should have been a mile ahead after the first four rounds but instead corrupt scoring meant Beyer was ahead. The way you describe the scenario is correct, build the house fighter into an unasailable and often undeserved comfortable lead and then pick off rounds to the other guy later on (ones he often hasn't won) all leading up to a close points loss for the away man.

but these are all foreign judges chosen by the boxing federations. do you really think that they only in Germany judge like crap and outside they make good judging. it´s too ridiculuos.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Mar 2005, 12:14

BubiScholz wrote:it´s only because of our good meals and beers.

Most of the judges who make "controversial scoring" in Germany are from the USA..... Funny, isn´t it?

As I said, German promoters have been very good in the past at providing hospitality for visiting officials. They did a good job on the judges and IBF officials at the Ottke fight, as the promoter, manager, ottke, IBF team officials, and the judges, were all seen in the hotel (where all were staying) sitting down to a nice fat meal.

Meanwhile, Reid is off in another hotel with his trainer all on his own, isn't that strange.

The nationality of the officials isn't the relevancy, it's the nationality of the promoters.

Boxing needs to sort out this mess, and not allow promoters to badger the sanctioning bodies, who sometimes even allow the promoter to choose officials, nor to offer hospitality.

It's ridiculous that the officials are paid for by the promoter rather than the sanctioning body they are there to represent, this is why boxing at times is such a farce.

If you cannot see that this happens, then you are blind or naive. The sanctioning bodies are essentially to blame, because they allow a set up which encourages silent corruption amongst officials. Think of it this way.

If you are a judge, and you know that the promoter lays on nice dinners, and that the sanctioning body you are representing has a number of champions promoted by that same promoter, do you think that would have a large possibility to influence your decision, especially with a home town crowd roaring on every shot thrown (whether it lands or not) by the house fighter?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Mar 2005, 12:15

I am not saying it only happens in Germany, just that particular promoters and their fighters in Germany have been on a bloody good run in the last few years. Dariusz, Beyer and Ottke, have all had some extremely fortuituous decisions rendered by judges and referees.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 02 Mar 2005, 12:28

sorry, but all these nice meals and drinks shouldn´t influence a referee or judge. why did DM then lose vs. Gonzalez? this was a close fight, too and a great for boxing history. if it would be like you explain it there would be no real fight all over the world.

i think very often the judges give the close rounds to the champ not depending on the country.

Spreadking · Post by **Spreadking** » 02 Mar 2005, 12:36

Green wins by KO 3

Green should then pee on Ottke's wife to get his faggy ass in the ring.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Mar 2005, 12:39

BubiScholz wrote:sorry, but all these nice meals and drinks shouldn´t influence a referee or judge. why did DM then lose vs. Gonzalez? this was a close fight, too and a great for boxing history. if it would be like you explain it there would be no real fight all over the world.

i think very often the judges give the close rounds to the champ not depending on the country.

They shouldn't, but they clearly do...

That's not to say EVERY decision is corrupt, otherwise nobody would watch boxing at all, some judges are obviously going to be harder to influence than others, but there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that there are many many cases where the largesse of promoters buys their fighter close rounds, and it only takes a few close rounds to sway a fight one way or another.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 02 Mar 2005, 12:44

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:sorry, but all these nice meals and drinks shouldn´t influence a referee or judge. why did DM then lose vs. Gonzalez? this was a close fight, too and a great for boxing history. if it would be like you explain it there would be no real fight all over the world.

i think very often the judges give the close rounds to the champ not depending on the country.
They shouldn't, but they clearly do...

That's not to say EVERY decision is corrupt, otherwise nobody would watch boxing at all, some judges are obviously going to be harder to influence than others, but there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that there are many many cases where the largesse of promoters buys their fighter close rounds, and it only takes a few close rounds to sway a fight one way or another.

James, what does a judge get paid for a championship fight?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 02 Mar 2005, 12:52

I don't know exactly, but where a world title fight is concerned, the money to pay the judges comes out of the promotional package. More to the point the board and lodging for the period are also paid for by the promoter, so the person who wins the purse bids for a fight handles all that sort of thing.

So you can see that bribing of people is not neccesary, the whole set up is perfectly conceived to give the promoter of the fight carte blanche to curry favour, even if it is merely subconscious, with the officials at the fight.

Look at the way the referee was hounded by the promoters and IBF officials for the Beyer v Green fight, that was an absolute fiasco, I've never seen a referee placed under such incredible pressure before in my life.