Did the Mitchell fight flatter Tszyu?

kevo · Post by **kevo** » 03 Mar 2005, 13:02

I know i'll probably get a lot of stick for this post, but i've been thinking about this for a while. Did the second Mitchell fight Flatter Tszyu?

Just look at his last couple of fights; He ekes out a close points victory over N'dou ( althogh not on the judges scorecards) , who was then outpointed a lot more comfortably by Cotto, and then floored and outpointed by Witter. Then there's the Stewart fight. He;s taken 12 rounds by Stewart ( although dropping and widely outpointing him ), who is stopped by Hatton in 5 one sided rounds.

All this plus the fact that he hasn't really fought top class competitors since the first Tszyu loss , and it makes me wonder, Did he deserve his Number 1 contender status? He's also been boxing for over 10 years, so maybe wasn't the threat to Tszyu we thought he was. I know this is all in hindsight, and not to take anything away from Tszyu, but maybe he caught Mitchell at the right time. Maybe Mitchell is just shot, and maybe we're making Tszyu's victory out to be a lot more impressive than it actually was.

J · Post by J » 03 Mar 2005, 13:02

it is a possibility but we just dont know.

kevo · Post by **kevo** » 03 Mar 2005, 13:04

Maybe it's just wishful thinking. :)

J · Post by J » 03 Mar 2005, 13:06

no it is totally possible mate, and maybe it is wishful thinking.
ill be a doing a preview at some point for Kev / Ian and some of those theories were already in my thoughts.

it could also be that kostya is just still in top of his game.
its just impossible to know after 3 rounds of boxing in two years.

I saw mitcehll live against Mike stewart and wasnt overtly impressed.
He does lack the spiteful punch to stop Kiotya just walking him down he just seemed to have nothing to keep kostya at bay or make him think to be honest.

kevo · Post by **kevo** » 03 Mar 2005, 13:10

There's also the fact that he just seemed happy to stay in Tszyu's punching range. Makes me think his legs are gone, and with him not having KO power to hold higher tier opponents off, can't see him having much more success at the top level.

Nels · Post by **Nels** » 03 Mar 2005, 13:23

I've been thinking about this for a while (okay, some persuasive Yankee friends of mine have been saying this over and over and I'm starting to take notice).

Tszyu's big rep since his WBC winning effort over MA Gonzalez (good chin, but the Spinks fight showed how far he's slipped) has been based on flattening quick movers, not aggressive come-forward guys. Urkal ran him relatively close; he outboxed Tackie in a clever but dull performance and I thought he was sleep-walking against Leija.

That's what makes June's fight so intriguing: just how much has Kostya got left in the tank against a guy who's gonna step on his toes and bring it? Anyone remember Diobelys Hurtado bouncing him off the canvas like a basketball (until the Russian/Aussie flattened him)? It makes you wonder...

I do agree that Mitchell is done (Mind you, I said that about him after he got done by Stevie Johnston and Leavander Johnson, and I was only ickle then...) The thing with the Tszyu-Mitchell II fight was that we didn't know HOW done either of these old guys were, in my opinion.

Smit · Post by **Smit** » 03 Mar 2005, 13:26

Might sound weird but i think the layoff actually benefited and rejuvinated Tszyu

kevo · Post by **kevo** » 03 Mar 2005, 13:31

Nels wrote:I do agree that Mitchell is done (Mind you, I said that about him after he got done by Stevie Johnston and Leavander Johnson...

That's what I was thinking. He's shown he's got Bouncebackability (

), but that was a long time ago. Maybe he's just too old to start over again.

barry · Post by **barry** » 03 Mar 2005, 13:33

Personally, I think Mitchell was very overrated! He was a good, solid fighter with very good skills and an average chin! However, I think that Tszyu throughout his career has fought quality opposititon and I think Tszyu is one hell of a fighter! I don't think Hatton will win, but I think he will certainly give Tszyu the fight of his life, but then again Hatton may be too young and just as strong as Tszyu! Unless he gets caught early, Hatton has as good a chance as anyone to beat Tszyu! It will certainly be a fun fight to watch!

dandantheweatherman · Post by **dandantheweatherman** » 03 Mar 2005, 15:56

I think this is exactly what makes the Hatton fight so intriguing. Tszyu's done it all but hasn't been terribly active, is knocking on a bit in boxing terms and is coming up against a young, hungry, energetic fighter who will (hopefully) try and fight bell to bell. I don't think it's at all easy to pick a winner because there have to be question marks against both fighters.

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 03 Mar 2005, 16:54

I think there are some good points raised here...i made a similar point myself in a previous thread. If Hatton can weather the early storm i think he has a great chance...Tszyu has been very inactive and the Mitchell fight only lasted three rounds with mitchell mostly standing smack bang in range and consequently getting smacked and banged out of there! If Hatton can give Tszyu angles and stay out of punching range i see the inactivity creeping in as the fight progresses...of course a pin point Tszyu overhand right and all this goes out of the window but it certainly makes things interesting.

BunglesFingers · Post by **BunglesFingers** » 03 Mar 2005, 16:54

If Hatton was to do the unthinkable and beat Kostya, will the critics say that it was just another win against an over the hill, past his best fighter?

steve689 · Post by **steve689** » 03 Mar 2005, 16:58

They could do but i don't think that argument stands, i mean i have just sat and looked at possible Tszyu weaknesses myself but i don't think he can be classed over the hill and a Hatton win is a fantastic achievement if it comes off, that of course is a big if.

Neri · Post by **Neri** » 03 Mar 2005, 17:11

If Hatton was to do the unthinkable and beat Kostya, will the critics say that it was just another win against an over the hill, past his best fighter?

Probably, its very hard for a fighter to gain true recognition these days.

I think that as Hatton said Mitchell definately stood in range of Tszyu and did make Kostya look better. Mitchell has been fighting a long time now and its a possibility he is shot.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 03 Mar 2005, 17:13

Ding_Ding wrote:If Hatton was to do the unthinkable and beat Kostya, will the critics say that it was just another win against an over the hill, past his best fighter?

Yes, sadly some will say that.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 03 Mar 2005, 17:57

yes, I've been saying this also for a while now. I'll post more details when I'm sober.....

dbf · Post by **dbf** » 03 Mar 2005, 20:05

whether mitchell was shot or not, tyszu took care of business. If Mitchell was genuinely the nuymer 1 contender, then Kostya knocked him out. If he was shot, Kostya still knocked him out. So unfortunately we dont know how much Tyszu has left.

Great point about Tsyzu not fighting anyone who has pressure him in a long time. I think hes going to feel the heat from Hatton and rely too much on his power to bail him out.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 04 Mar 2005, 02:46

Nels wrote:I've been thinking about this for a while (okay, some persuasive Yankee friends of mine have been saying this over and over and I'm starting to take notice).

Tszyu's big rep since his WBC winning effort over MA Gonzalez (good chin, but the Spinks fight showed how far he's slipped) has been based on flattening quick movers, not aggressive come-forward guys. Urkal ran him relatively close; he outboxed Tackie in a clever but dull performance and I thought he was sleep-walking against Leija.

That's what makes June's fight so intriguing: just how much has Kostya got left in the tank against a guy who's gonna step on his toes and bring it? Anyone remember Diobelys Hurtado bouncing him off the canvas like a basketball (until the Russian/Aussie flattened him)? It makes you wonder...

I do agree that Mitchell is done (Mind you, I said that about him after he got done by Stevie Johnston and Leavander Johnson, and I was only ickle then...) The thing with the Tszyu-Mitchell II fight was that we didn't know HOW done either of these old guys were, in my opinion.

Hurtado caught Tszyu with a punch when Tszyu was going in for the kill after knocking down Hurtado with the first right hand of the fight. The second Knockdown of Tszyu was more of a slip and Tszyu was never in trouble at all he got up before the count of 1 on both occasions. When Tszyu beat Gonzales he had only lost once to DeLaHoya and had never been stopped in his career and Tszyu totally flogged him.
Tszyu is usaully a slow starter so in the Lieja fight Tszyu was just starting to find range when Lieja Quit.
Urkal did well against Tszyu but Tszyu looked like he was trying to go 12 rounds he had Urkal hurt a few times and never really tried to KO him.
No one will no how much Tszyu has left but he seems very focused in the media here and is deffinently taking this fight very serious.

shoutout · Post by **shoutout** » 04 Mar 2005, 04:01

Kevo wrote:I know i'll probably get a lot of stick for this post, but i've been thinking about this for a while. Did the second Mitchell fight Flatter Tszyu?

Just look at his last couple of fights; He ekes out a close points victory over N'dou ( althogh not on the judges scorecards) , who was then outpointed a lot more comfortably by Cotto, and then floored and outpointed by Witter. Then there's the Stewart fight. He;s taken 12 rounds by Stewart ( although dropping and widely outpointing him ), who is stopped by Hatton in 5 one sided rounds.

All this plus the fact that he hasn't really fought top class competitors since the first Tszyu loss , and it makes me wonder, Did he deserve his Number 1 contender status? He's also been boxing for over 10 years, so maybe wasn't the threat to Tszyu we thought he was. I know this is all in hindsight, and not to take anything away from Tszyu, but maybe he caught Mitchell at the right time. Maybe Mitchell is just shot, and maybe we're making Tszyu's victory out to be a lot more impressive than it actually was.

you make some excellent points, kevo!! tszyu needs to be judged more on the basis of his last 5 fights than a single tremendous showing vs mitchell, who i believe quit with an exaggerated injury after he was thoroughly intimidated by kostya in 1st bout!!

i believe that as leija & urkal showed, kostya is ripe for the taking...i just dont know enuf about hatton to know if ricky is the man to do it...

Graham Brett · Post by **Graham Brett** » 04 Mar 2005, 06:55

After being out for two years with a career threatening injury, there is no way that the Mitchell win flattered Tzsyu, who is a genuinely great fighter.

I'd love to see Ricky win, as it would certainly be one of the great nights in British Boxing history, and would cap a great career as promoter for Frank.

But, Ricky IS going to get hit by Tzsyu. Ricky has a good chin, but Tszyu is the hardest puncher in Boxing today, a great puncher.

I cant see Hatton walking through those right hands for longer than two or three rounds.

If he does, great. But I doubt it.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 04 Mar 2005, 07:18

It's impossible to tell, as was said earlier, whether Mitchell was shot or not, Tszyu flattened him.

I think Mitchell's legs were a bit shaky, he looked wobbly on a couple of occasions when Stewart tagged him with body shots, and Stewart was a non-puncher.

Tszyu definetly hasn't lost one thing, and that's his punch, which is a great leveller, and unlike some other big hitters, he knows how to set up that right hand, and has a good left hook to the body and impeccable timing.

Tszyu may be a little past his best, but if so he is still a fearsome opponent. Leija has always been a tricky bastard, and whether or not he gave Tszyu problems, he ended up getting beat. It doesn't matter if you knock your opponent out in the 1st or the 12th round, so long as you knock him out.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 04 Mar 2005, 07:26

Well I reckon the Mitchell win did flatter Tszyu...slightly. The American looked mentaly beat from the off - I was always expecting to him cave in at some point, just like he did in the first fight ( excuses aside ).

Tszyu has his number - end of.

Trouble is, he probably has Hatton's number too - but it's all guess work till 5th June of course.

I watched the Hurtado fight again a few weeks back, and there's no real weakness there. Agree with Ben - Kostya just walked into some silly shots as he went to finish him off. But he looked right as rain when he sprang up to continue - and Hurtado can whack some.

And that shot Zab caught him with was bang on, and he took that very well.

I'd say Hatton has no chance of knocking him out.

It's got to be same tactics Ricky used for Tackie and Magee I think.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 04 Mar 2005, 07:33

Yes I agree. The problem there is that he is facing a guy who knows how to box, and also to cut the ring off and break opponents down. Hatton is most effective at getting his opponent on the back foot, boxing Magee or Tackie to a relative standstill is one thing, boxing Tszyu, a much taller order. The only person to beat him remains a ferocious puncher and physically strong Phillips, movers and shakers have fared very badly.

I still say that this fight will be decided in the first 4 rounds, if Hatton is able to hold his own then we are in for an interesting fight, if Hatton is pushed onto the back foot, Tszyu will walk through him and paste him.

Graham Brett · Post by **Graham Brett** » 04 Mar 2005, 07:36

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Yes I agree. The problem there is that he is facing a guy who knows how to box, and also to cut the ring off and break opponents down. Hatton is most effective at getting his opponent on the back foot, boxing Magee or Tackie to a relative standstill is one thing, boxing Tszyu, a much taller order. The only person to beat him remains a ferocious puncher and physically strong Phillips, movers and shakers have fared very badly.

I still say that this fight will be decided in the first 4 rounds, if Hatton is able to hold his own then we are in for an interesting fight, if Hatton is pushed onto the back foot, Tszyu will walk through him and paste him.

I reckon your right mate, with the latter more likely.

Jedi Knight · Post by **Jedi Knight** » 04 Mar 2005, 11:19

I agree with most points made. We really don't know how good Zoo (2005) is cuz he has has zero rounds. On the other hand, this is unknown territory for Hatton too. He will genuinley be in a fight where he could get knocked out at any second.

Let's be honest after the first couple of rounds of most of Hatton's fights we don't really get that worried..

This is why this fight sold out so quick....not only because it's for a genuine world title, not only because Ricky will be in a v hard fight but also becuase there are so many question marks on each fighter..

I love it..

Did the Mitchell fight flatter Tszyu?

Did the Mitchell fight flatter Tszyu?

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Re: Did the Mitchell fight flatter Tszyu?