Joan Guzman open work out.. yet stiil fails weight (merged)

[bulldog10]

How do I not make sense, you tell me which part of my post doesn’t make sense and I’ll explain it to you. I asked a civil question “was this his second session of the day” – all you needed to say was – yes it was, and that’s why he was playing to the crowd and dancing around.

I then asked IF tactics were being worked on outside of this sessions because IF they weren’t there are concerns. For the record ducking under shots, and moving from side to side does not constitue set gameplan tactics for a big fight. I do that in training every day without a fight being lined up. The stuff Lee was doing with joan looked like the sort of stuff fighters do to become comfortable ducking under naturally and moving laterally naturally.

You say im being negative for no reason. My opening line is “it was a cracking afternoon”. I then asked two questions which required simple answers of “yes it was his second session” – in which case the fact he wasn’t over exerting makes perfect sense. And then “yes Lee has been working on certain aspects of the first Funeka fight behind closed doors” (even throw in a such as….).

It seems you’ve read my post quickly and looked on it negatively when all I was doing was complementing the guys for having the open session and asking some questions / concerns. This is an opinion forum and subjective opinions are what its all about.

Don’t forget, not everyone has this inside knowledge having spoken to Lee, some people turned up watched and went home. That’s all they saw, and all they know.

WALES

i reard your post , one minute hes playig to the crowd cos he tried the next you write its a positive! why didnt you go speak with lee have a chat with him guzman etc, cos you went as critic, looking for sht to say, i saw a cotto open workout ad he hit the bag and pads, probably threw about 100 punches in 1 hour, it was good to see him to i wasnt thinking he ait doing enough etc cos his team would be onto that, they not concerned about my thoughts he was there for the peope to see

guzman worked for 30-40 mintues with the kids in the ring shadow , with the cross ropes etc, moving etc, having a laugh with them, you missed out on that cos you could off said he wasnt concentrating on funeka by doing his,

critical for no reason you had concerns,,,,,, lee didnt look worried and everybody there went for seeing him and autographs/photos etc ,

did you get photo/autograph????

[Wales]

Again, picking up on the negatives saying im being critical. No mention of the positives in my post.

Okay. The playing the crowd thing. It was a concern when I didn’t know if this was his only session of the day, there’s a big difference between playing the crowd when he was talking to them about his debut fight, and how the opponent was all bouncy before seeing Guzmans stare. Or at the end when lees kid (was it?) was in the ring and he was dancing in front of her – that’s playing the crowd that came to see him train. My concern reads as follows “was this his second session of the day, and as such a fun workout, because at no point did he over exert himself, and when he did get tired he seemed to revert to “having a laugh” a little dance, or pushing the heavy bag then avoiding it as it swung back. Was this just a public fun workout, his second session of the day, or is this his training style?” - that’s me asking if it was his second session and as such what he was doing was perfectly acceptable, if it was his first and only (or main) session then in my opinion I’d have concerns.

I saw him in the ring with the kids, looked to me like a warm up. Ive not commented on what he did with the (lucky) kids, the cross ropes etc…. He was warming up and passing on some techniques and tips to the youngsters. Nothing more.

“Critical for no reason” – fornicate sakes I only said I had concerns, both of which revolved around two questions that have since been answered. Ive not come on ehre slagging him off, or slagging lee off, or slagging the event off. Just asked two simple questions that required simple answers.

Yes, I did get a photo.

“go speak to Lee and Guzman” – yeah okay, I’ll just go and knock and Lees door and ask “was that the second session of the day” and “have you been working on tactics” – or I could save the petrol and post the questions on here in the hope someone answers them .

[lacollier883]

Wales

Guzman has been pushed through the paces by Lee in training and they have Kerry Kayes on board too so guzman is putting in the required hours needed.

Tactics have also been worked on, have seen guzman sparring and working with Lee to the gameplan they feel will win the fight with Funeka

[Wales]

Excellent news mate.

I said in my orgonal post that there was an air of respect from Guzman towards Kays when Kerry walked in. There was a slightly different demenour.

I'll have to find a stream of the fight next week

[lacollier883]

Excellent news mate.

I said in my orgonal post that there was an air of respect from Guzman towards Kays when Kerry walked in. There was a slightly different demenour.

I'll have to find a stream of the fight next week

According to Lee, guzman is really impressed with the work he has done with Kerry.

Spoke to Kerry and Lee last week and Kerry spoke about what he was doing with Guzman, etc, interview will go up on the sticky BS thread. No doubt Terry D will post the link once its up.

[Wales]

Who were the two young pros n the gym when Joan was training, are they both trained by lee also ?

[crusader]

So much for Guzman being in shape

Nine pounds overweight is ridiculous.

[whiskey]

It's absolutely unbelievable.

Apparently Kerry took 10lb out of him yesterday and his body just will not respond.

[mickey1975]

It's absolutely unbelievable.

Apparently Kerry took 10lb out of him yesterday and his body just will not respond.

No offence,mate,considering our history,but have you read the book Muscle by John Hotten?.Kerry is a master of producing people on the scales at the weight,but what is left in the tank?Bodybuilding and boxing are two hugely different sports

[gobbles]

It's absolutely unbelievable.

Apparently Kerry took 10lb out of him yesterday and his body just will not respond.

So he was 19lb over 2 days before the weigh-in. That just sounds totally unprofessional. How does anyone expect to lose that kind of weight? That is seriously unhealthy. Don't they have check weigh-ins? How can you be more than 11st 2 days before a lightweight title fight?

The trainer should take his share of the blame.

[whiskey]

9lb over is just crazy. Joan will take a huge amount of criticism for this.

It's not unheard of for 15lb of water weight to be sucked out of a fighter with a couple of days before weigh in, but Guzman has been holding loads of water and for a short guy, he's very stocky.

Beard identified the weight and brought Joan to Kerry Kayes as soon as he touched down over here. Beard joined up with him in February and Kerry got involved as soon as they touched down in Manchester and flew out to assist them in LV. Neither has been afforded a true 'full' camp. Beard was set on mid-Feb so only had what, six weeks ? Kerry even less.

Guzman will need to make an emphatic statement and even then, a huge shadow will be cast over any celebrations if he does win big. He is a tremendous talent, but the weight is a big issue and he will need to go to 140lb after this debacle - as ultimately a fighter takes final responsibility for getting to the weight limit. It would seem he has just filled out too much to do lower weights at aged 33 and put simply, enjoys his food too much.

Credit to Funeka though for fighting on. I suppose they all need to earn a living.

[Datsue]

I care nought about the fighter in question, so therefore it was quite amusing -- as I have avoided reading this thread until now -- to read the news about the fat bastard being nine pounds over the lightweight limit, then scrolling through several pages of wonderment about how amazing his training was going.

Thanks, everybody!

Anyway... I'm glad that lots of people are close to him on here, but the man does nothing for me. He's annoying to watch, & his legions of internet "trade" fight fans ("He's just like Mayweather!!!! Only not as good!!!! & even more boring!!!! & he fights even worse opposition!!!") do little to change my opinion.

Mind you, having said all that, I bet you anything that Funeka's a bloody welterweight by the time he gets in the ring (he is six foot one after all) so I suppose what's good for the goose is good for the gander...

[47Style]

9lbs????

Funeka weighed in at 135 and will go ahead with the fight, but it is not for The World Title, not for Guzman.

What a joke - but he seems happy enough. Guzman now has to weigh less than 150 on fight night for the fight to go ahead.

[Top Dog]

Aye great job by Beard and Kayes there, done their reputations a world of good after all these days of Guzman this and Guzman that, Lee Beard great trainer blah blah, fuckin total red neck both of them

[47Style]

[whatashambles]

Aye great job by Beard and Kayes there, done their reputations a world of good after all these days of Guzman this and Guzman that, Lee Beard great trainer blah blah, fuckin total red neck both of them

All these open workouts and playing up for good publicity and he comes in hugely overweight. Jose Luis Castillo didn't even come in that overweight. It's an absolute farce and that picture just makes it even worse.

[gobbles]

Guzman looked finished in his last fight when Funeka got completely robbed anyway. Coming in at nearly welterweight when you are in a title fight at lightweight - he should be banned. It's not just one of those things, it's a scandal. He's got previous. And his trainer should be ashamed.

[hollins]

kerry kayes? lee beard?

[lefthook82]

An absolute disgrace

I hope he suffers a brutal embarrasing knockout and that he doesnt get any more opportunities
He doesnt deserve any payday. This is the not the first time he has pulled a fast one

How can you show such contempt for the rules? What a fornicating dickhead ! He has basically decided that he cant be bothered to lose weight, maybe enjoying his pie and mash too much
Whats up with his tariners. At what point did they give up and say he is not going to make it. At the beginning?

Funeka, please rid the sport of this clown

[Counter-puncher]

It's absolutely unbelievable.

Apparently Kerry took 10lb out of him yesterday and his body just will not respond.

No offence,mate,considering our history,but have you read the book Muscle by John Hotten?.Kerry is a master of producing people on the scales at the weight,but what is left in the tank?Bodybuilding and boxing are two hugely different sports

i have been saying this about Kayes' regime for a long time.

[mickey1975]

It's absolutely unbelievable.

Apparently Kerry took 10lb out of him yesterday and his body just will not respond.

No offence,mate,considering our history,but have you read the book Muscle by John Hotten?.Kerry is a master of producing people on the scales at the weight,but what is left in the tank?Bodybuilding and boxing are two hugely different sports

i have been saying this about Kayes' regime for a long time.

There's stories in that book about people literally been too weak to even walk,one had to get wheeled off stage after he siezed up!They look their strongest,but are at their very weakest

[Asterix]

It's absolutely unbelievable.

Apparently Kerry took 10lb out of him yesterday and his body just will not respond.

I said the same thing earlier this month: http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p ... 0#p2341000

[Asterix]

Has to weight below 150 lbs on the night? I guess the fight won't go ahead then, or Guzman will still be drained.

[whiskey]

It's a totally different way in which a body builder prepares for a show and a boxer. I used to lift a lot of weight in my teens about 14 years ago and it's much different from boxing.

A BB sodium-cycles down to less than 0.8g on the final day before a a show and manipulates glycogen & carb levels to like a meal every 2 hours for weeks. 'Dieting' is effectively a body builder's training camp. Many of them are absolute masters at it with incredible will power. The ones who end up ill are the ones juiced to the absolute gills and taking all sorts of exotic potions and diuretics to get their skin so thin it looks almost like wet tissue paper.

Wheras a boxer needs to get to their natural fighting weight through training and then maybe deplete and remove excess fluid to hit the magic number, irrelevant of physical appearance on the scales.

The main thing is to keep the fighter from being catabolic, so they dont eat up their muscle tissue, effectively cannibalise themselves and become weak at the weight.

If anything the body builders of the world have got the diet side down to an absolute art, wheras it's the boxers who struggle with it. The items within the diet are different for both - but it's the regimen that is the most important aspect of it all.

[chris s]

WTF was doing in Manchester - a tour of curry houses, chinese restaurants and pie shops.

Surely his trainers knew what was going to happen?