mickey1975 wrote:Its totally irrelevant if he made a made a meal of it or not.He should not have been hit whilst down
my damn message just disappeared but just to say, good point. However..I thought to be classed as down, your bum, at least one glove, OR one knee, or your back, had to be on the deck?? If you're just squatting as Dirrell was and only your shoes are touching the deck, are you classed as up or down?? could someone clear that up please??
in an ideal world of course the ref would have called slip and jumped in to sort it out, but good ref or bad ref, that task is virtually impossible to get right every time.
It was a legitimate disqualification but he made the most of it. He got hit by the shot, lifted his hand to his head and creased his face up then collapsed and pretended to twitch and I think I remember he actually starts rolling onto his side himself before the ref even touches him. If he was KOd proper he wouldnt be rolling over.
Abraham definately deserved to get DQd, but I think Dirrell was faking being knocked out.
mickey1975 wrote:Its totally irrelevant if he made a made a meal of it or not.He should not have been hit whilst down
my damn message just disappeared but just to say, good point. However..I thought to be classed as down, your bum, at least one glove, OR one knee, or your back, had to be on the deck?? If you're just squatting as Dirrell was and only your shoes are touching the deck, are you classed as up or down?? could someone clear that up please??
in an ideal world of course the ref would have called slip and jumped in to sort it out, but good ref or bad ref, that task is virtually impossible to get right every time.
His knee is on the floor prior to getting hit. Looked like a genuine slip too.
If we look at what happened, Abraham hit him when he was down and Dirrell had a delayed reaction and then was out cold.
OK, so lets examine the incident.
First off, we look at the actual punch landed. We can all agree a punch was landed while Dirrell was on the floor.
Now, the severity of the blow is questioned. It seems to me that Abraham lands with his thumb on Dirrells chin. It certainly wasn't a full blooded Abraham special. However, lets say it had enough power to knock Dirrell out cold. Lets say it was more devastating than it looked, which could have been the case.
Ok, so we agree that a punch was landed while Dirrell was on the floor and we agree, for the sake of argument, that the punch was a power punch from Abraham.
Now we look at Dirrells reaction. He doesn't go down immediately. He takes the punch and then looks at the referee. He then grimaces, puts his glove to his head, and falls to the canvas. Note that his head doesn't hit the canvas, it was a controlled fall. Dirrell then appears to be twitching on the ground and looks like he has lost consciousness. We can all agree on this sequence of events.
Now lets examine this sequence of events, using common sense.
Lets think about delayed reactions to punches and knockouts. What happens? Well, in a delayed reaction to a punch, say a body shot, the punch is delivered, the fighter doesn't feel the full effect of the punch as his brain hasn't registered the punch yet, then a second or two later the nervous system responds and the fighter feels the pain from the body shot and gets winded. At this point he decides to go down. A similar sequence of events occurs when the fighter takes a head shot and has a delayed reaction and goes down. It's always a conscious decision to go down after the sudden pain of the punch is realized.
Now, lets look at a knockout blow. Basically a fighter is caught with a punch to the head and he loses consciousness immediately and falls to the floor. He may be able to recover, but the initial responce to the punch is to drop to the canvas (Think Hatton vs Pacman for example)
Now, lets see what we can deduce from the above descriptions. Well, it seems that Dirrell had a delayed reaction and went down. So we have to say that it was a conscious decision to go down. We never see a fighter have a delayed reaction from a punch to the head and then go out cold in the ring. We also look at Dirrell before he drops down and see him look at the referee.
My view is that Dirrell was caught by a punch that caught him on the chin. It wasn't a power punch but it was enough to hurt him. Dirrell knew he had been hit while he was down. He looked to the referee and saw the referee coming in, in his favour. He then decides to go down to the canvas, as he is hurt, but not as hurt as he makes out as he pretends to be out cold and adds some twitching in for show and effect. Not content with this show, he continues to remain groggy afterwards in the ring.
I think Abraham knocked him down and was getting to him. I remember a flurry of explosive, power punches from Abraham that landed on Dirrells arms/body and head while Dirrell was on the ropes in the previous round which made Dirrell think. It was the first time he was hit like that by Abraham and I believe it frightened him.
If we look at what happened, Abraham hit him when he was down and Dirrell had a delayed reaction and then was out cold.
OK, so lets examine the incident.
First off, we look at the actual punch landed. We can all agree a punch was landed while Dirrell was on the floor.
Now, the severity of the blow is questioned. It seems to me that Abraham lands with his thumb on Dirrells chin. It certainly wasn't a full blooded Abraham special. However, lets say it had enough power to knock Dirrell out cold. Lets say it was more devastating than it looked, which could have been the case.
Ok, so we agree that a punch was landed while Dirrell was on the floor and we agree, for the sake of argument, that the punch was a power punch from Abraham.
Now we look at Dirrells reaction. He doesn't go down immediately. He takes the punch and then looks at the referee. He then grimaces, puts his glove to his head, and falls to the canvas. Note that his head doesn't hit the canvas, it was a controlled fall. Dirrell then appears to be twitching on the ground and looks like he has lost consciousness. We can all agree on this sequence of events.
Now lets examine this sequence of events, using common sense.
Lets think about delayed reactions to punches and knockouts. What happens? Well, in a delayed reaction to a punch, say a body shot, the punch is delivered, the fighter doesn't feel the full effect of the punch as his brain hasn't registered the punch yet, then a second or two later the nervous system responds and the fighter feels the pain from the body shot and gets winded. At this point he decides to go down. A similar sequence of events occurs when the fighter takes a head shot and has a delayed reaction and goes down. It's always a conscious decision to go down after the sudden pain of the punch is realized.
Now, lets look at a knockout blow. Basically a fighter is caught with a punch to the head and he loses consciousness immediately and falls to the floor. He may be able to recover, but the initial responce to the punch is to drop to the canvas (Think Hatton vs Pacman for example)
Now, lets see what we can deduce from the above descriptions. Well, it seems that Dirrell had a delayed reaction and went down. So we have to say that it was a conscious decision to go down. We never see a fighter have a delayed reaction from a punch to the head and then go out cold in the ring. We also look at Dirrell before he drops down and see him look at the referee.
My view is that Dirrell was caught by a punch that caught him on the chin. It wasn't a power punch but it was enough to hurt him. Dirrell knew he had been hit while he was down. He looked to the referee and saw the referee coming in, in his favour. He then decides to go down to the canvas, as he is hurt, but not as hurt as he makes out as he pretends to be out cold and adds some twitching in for show and effect. Not content with this show, he continues to remain groggy afterwards in the ring.
I think Abraham knocked him down and was getting to him. I remember a flurry of explosive, power punches from Abraham that landed on Dirrells arms/body and head while Dirrell was on the ropes in the previous round which made Dirrell think. It was the first time he was hit like that by Abraham and I believe it frightened him.
mickey1975 wrote:Its totally irrelevant if he made a made a meal of it or not.He should not have been hit whilst down
thats the crux of it for me. people, mentioning no names, some seem to see it as sort of fitting punishment for Dirrell being so unwilling to engage Carl Froch. if you've taken a knee you shouldn't be hit IMO and that's the end of it.
If we look at what happened, Abraham hit him when he was down and Dirrell had a delayed reaction and then was out cold.
OK, so lets examine the incident.
First off, we look at the actual punch landed. We can all agree a punch was landed while Dirrell was on the floor.
Now, the severity of the blow is questioned. It seems to me that Abraham lands with his thumb on Dirrells chin. It certainly wasn't a full blooded Abraham special. However, lets say it had enough power to knock Dirrell out cold. Lets say it was more devastating than it looked, which could have been the case.
Ok, so we agree that a punch was landed while Dirrell was on the floor and we agree, for the sake of argument, that the punch was a power punch from Abraham.
Now we look at Dirrells reaction. He doesn't go down immediately. He takes the punch and then looks at the referee. He then grimaces, puts his glove to his head, and falls to the canvas. Note that his head doesn't hit the canvas, it was a controlled fall. Dirrell then appears to be twitching on the ground and looks like he has lost consciousness. We can all agree on this sequence of events.
Now lets examine this sequence of events, using common sense.
Lets think about delayed reactions to punches and knockouts. What happens? Well, in a delayed reaction to a punch, say a body shot, the punch is delivered, the fighter doesn't feel the full effect of the punch as his brain hasn't registered the punch yet, then a second or two later the nervous system responds and the fighter feels the pain from the body shot and gets winded. At this point he decides to go down. A similar sequence of events occurs when the fighter takes a head shot and has a delayed reaction and goes down. It's always a conscious decision to go down after the sudden pain of the punch is realized.
Now, lets look at a knockout blow. Basically a fighter is caught with a punch to the head and he loses consciousness immediately and falls to the floor. He may be able to recover, but the initial responce to the punch is to drop to the canvas (Think Hatton vs Pacman for example)
Now, lets see what we can deduce from the above descriptions. Well, it seems that Dirrell had a delayed reaction and went down. So we have to say that it was a conscious decision to go down. We never see a fighter have a delayed reaction from a punch to the head and then go out cold in the ring. We also look at Dirrell before he drops down and see him look at the referee.
My view is that Dirrell was caught by a punch that caught him on the chin. It wasn't a power punch but it was enough to hurt him. Dirrell knew he had been hit while he was down. He looked to the referee and saw the referee coming in, in his favour. He then decides to go down to the canvas, as he is hurt, but not as hurt as he makes out as he pretends to be out cold and adds some twitching in for show and effect. Not content with this show, he continues to remain groggy afterwards in the ring.
I think Abraham knocked him down and was getting to him. I remember a flurry of explosive, power punches from Abraham that landed on Dirrells arms/body and head while Dirrell was on the ropes in the previous round which made Dirrell think. It was the first time he was hit like that by Abraham and I believe it frightened him.
Spot on Direll made a meal of it,He should have got up after taken some time to recover,AA would have been deducted some points & Dirrell wins on a dicision.Why he had to add the twitching in when he was down,i dont know.
When I was watching it live I thought he was acting, and I still think that. It obviously came as no surprise for me that he was cleared of concussion. He won the fight well, so it's frustrating that he put on the act. He has a dodgy mentality, which I've been saying for a long time. Fantastic boxer, though.
Whether he did or not, Abraham was rightly disqualified for landing an illegal blow whilst his opponent was on the floor. He's got nobody but himself to blame.
Looking and looking and also reading the reports post fight I remain absolutely convinced he didn't fake it.
There was some geniune concerns from the doctor who is continuing to state his concerns, even after Dirrell passed the tests, were justified.
Also, I do disagree a tadge with MW saying "there was no risk". That ref wasn't great, sure he did seem to be on Abraham's back, but there is no way in all the pandemonium Dirrell is hearing "Abraham is DQ's". What if the ref didn't see that Dirrell was down when the punch landed. If Abraham is claiming he couldn't see Dirrell was down, maybe the ref might have missed it. Dirrell started convulsing before the ref declared the fight over.
There have been cases in which a fighter "looking" for the DQ have not got it. Remember Lloyd Honeyghun's final defence of his world title. He hit his Korean opponent in the balls - legitimate balls shots - ref gave the Korean five minutes to recover, but the Korean wanted more - Honeyghun awarded a KO victory via a bollocks shot. There was the Dan Sherry vs Chris Eubank incident aswell and more recently with Humberto Soto.... the decision strangely got over turned.
Looking for a DQ can quite often backfire. and I've never seen a fighter look for a DQ when he is winning a fight.
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Whether he did or not, Abraham was rightly disqualified for landing an illegal blow whilst his opponent was on the floor. He's got nobody but himself to blame.
yeah but look at some tough guys who got up when hit on the floor. marquez, dropped by barrera, gets hit again. gets up to pound out a classic win. or look at genaro henrandez, knocked out by punch after bell from ageing azumah nelson. takes his recovery time he's entitled to, gets up, wins!
and then you have andre dirrell's theatrics, after a half shot from abraham.
dirrell conveniently falls over every time an opponent gets near him or corners him. he was up to his old tricks. it's as bad and as negative as wlad k hugging then turning his back when his opponent breaks free.
abraham's own fault though i agree with that. he gave dirrell the chance to bail out.
we need to start getting our violins out for dirrell because every time he fights there is some drama, some outrage, and there will be more mark my words.
stujones wrote:Looking and looking and also reading the reports post fight I remain absolutely convinced he didn't fake it.
There was some geniune concerns from the doctor who is continuing to state his concerns, even after Dirrell passed the tests, were justified.
Also, I do disagree a tadge with MW saying "there was no risk". That ref wasn't great, sure he did seem to be on Abraham's back, but there is no way in all the pandemonium Dirrell is hearing "Abraham is DQ's".
Well I think Dirrell knew he was in pretty safe hands with the ref, who was rightly ignoring all Abraham's moaning, and also gave Dirrell the benefit of the doubt in the 10th with the KD ruled a "trip" - though it did make a nice change to see, to a certain degree, with the type of helpful refs AA has benefited from over the years. ( and no judges from Germany, but one from Michigan...)
And I've got no agenda with Dirrell, who I thought was heading to a brilliant win. Plus I thought he was unlucky in the Froch fight, and deserved at least a draw...
But there's no way I can ever see that the AA punch was a genuine knockout one. Still, he deserved to win by DSQ if that's what he chose, but I feel he really missed the chance to post an emphatic win. There's zero pictures of him since, instead of the usual ones of him being welcomed back and congratulated. And I think that's because he's very embarrassed by his theatrics.
hurlock wrote:the way he coverd his face then carefully slid on his back tells me he wasnt as hurt as he was letting on.
I'm in agreement with that. He very temporarily starts to look up, at the same time reaching to touch his face, then somewhat unconvincing falls onto his back/left shoulder.
Its impossible to be certain, but i strongly lean towards him having faked that whole incident. I did not like his negative fighting style before this fight, and i like him even less now. There's nothing appealing about him at all as a boxer IMO and of all the fighters in the super six, i'd least like him to win it!
My immediate reaction was I thought he was faking. After looking at the clips and the way he stopped his head from hitting the canvas I still think he was faking.
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Whether he did or not, Abraham was rightly disqualified for landing an illegal blow whilst his opponent was on the floor. He's got nobody but himself to blame.
yeah but look at some tough guys who got up when hit on the floor. marquez, dropped by barrera, gets hit again. gets up to pound out a classic win. or look at genaro henrandez, knocked out by punch after bell from ageing azumah nelson. takes his recovery time he's entitled to, gets up, wins!
and then you have andre dirrell's theatrics, after a half shot from abraham.
dirrell conveniently falls over every time an opponent gets near him or corners him. he was up to his old tricks. it's as bad and as negative as wlad k hugging then turning his back when his opponent breaks free.
abraham's own fault though i agree with that. he gave dirrell the chance to bail out.
we need to start getting our violins out for dirrell because every time he fights there is some drama, some outrage, and there will be more mark my words.
So where do you draw the line?There are rules,mate.Go and watch a streetfight if you want some "afters".However you dress it up,and i know you love pressure fighters,Abraham got absolutely schooled.
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Whether he did or not, Abraham was rightly disqualified for landing an illegal blow whilst his opponent was on the floor. He's got nobody but himself to blame.
yeah but look at some tough guys who got up when hit on the floor. marquez, dropped by barrera, gets hit again. gets up to pound out a classic win. or look at genaro henrandez, knocked out by punch after bell from ageing azumah nelson. takes his recovery time he's entitled to, gets up, wins!
and then you have andre dirrell's theatrics, after a half shot from abraham.
dirrell conveniently falls over every time an opponent gets near him or corners him. he was up to his old tricks. it's as bad and as negative as wlad k hugging then turning his back when his opponent breaks free.
abraham's own fault though i agree with that. he gave dirrell the chance to bail out.
we need to start getting our violins out for dirrell because every time he fights there is some drama, some outrage, and there will be more mark my words.
So where do you draw the line?There are rules,mate.Go and watch a streetfight if you want some "afters".However you dress it up,and i know you love pressure fighters,Abraham got absolutely schooled.
It was a deserved win for Dirrell, no matter what the circumstances were. He went in there and taught Abraham a lesson and outboxed him entirely. It was a great show of skill by dirrell and enjoyable to watch him outbox Abraham. Abraham was coming on, but he was way behind and time was running out. I think dirrell would have won a decision.
rhino222 wrote:dirrell will now go onto win the super 6 !!!
You could be right, he has been very impressive, I haven't seen the whole Abraham fight but from seeing the last 2 round he did seem more willing to engage than he did against Froch (for most of the Froch fight that is.)
I do think he lost the Froch fight, I watched the fight again a few weeks back and I scored it to Froch by a round, Dirrell did land more shots than Froch but there is more to winning a fight than that, landing 5 shots to another guys 1 and running the rest of the round while the other guy comes forward throwing shots is frustrating, when Sven Ottke was using the same tactics that Dirrell used to go on his career long unbeaten run we were all annoyed, obviously Dirrell is much better in my opinion but still, he was very negative against Froch until the last few rounds.
It's a pain tho because now if Froch does go and win in Denmark, the Abraham fight will have a little steam taken out of it. If Abraham had managed to land the honey punch and Froch wins in Denmark then Froch vs Abraham is an absolutely huge fight, possibly the biggest fight out there for the Super-middleweights, now the knockers will point to the fact that Abraham lost, just like they are doing here with Kessler, as if one loss has turned him from the best Super-middleweight into a shot fighter whos been found out.
Direll made a meal of it,He should have got up after taken some time to recover,AA would have been deducted some points & Dirrell wins on a dicision.Why he had to add the twitching in when he was down,i dont know.
DD