Haye has yet to convince as a World Class Heavyweight

[FLINT ISLAND]

Daivd Hayes heavyweight resume so far...........


W Ret 3 Gary Delaney = Delaney a British level fighter out of his depth

W KO 1 Tomas Bonin = very impressive but over so quickly he was not tested at all

W TKO 5 Monte Barret = showed lots of power - but showed he is still quite green - he gassed after a few rounds - got hit and hurt - and it showed his vunerabilites against a gatekeeper.

W Points 12 Valuev = got his track shoes on and showed he was a better ballroom dancer than Joe Calzaghe Made no kind of fight of it - just tried to steal the fight - very unconvincing way to become a heavyweight champion.


So there it is - David Haye still with lots of questions to be answered and lots of doubts persist.

He is the Naz of the heavyweights I feel - very flawed and vunerable - but with power as his get out of jail card.


John Ruiz is likely to answer more questions of Haye on Saturday night ...................

[taffytoon]

Thing is he beat Cruiserweights so easily he had to move up. When he fought Macca he could have fought another 3 top ten on the same night.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Thing is he beat Cruiserweights so easily he had to move up. When he fought Macca he could have fought another 3 top ten on the same night.

Haye is world class no doubt.

I like watching him fight - very exciting.

No doubt - he was for a brief time - the No1 Crsueirweight in the world.

But now the heavyweights are a whole different ball game - and I still feel he hasnt really been tested yet - but John Ruiz will give him the toughest test so far.

So lets see how Haye responds - and then we will be able to make a better judgement of Hayes chances of mixing it with the Klitshcko brothers.

I disagree that he could have fought another 3 top ten crusierweights on the same night as brushing aside Maccarenelli - thats ridiculous - just because he blew away a paper champion in Maccarenelli - I am sure Steve Cunnigham or a rematch with Mormeck would have given him a much sterner test.

[mickey1975]

Thing is he beat Cruiserweights so easily he had to move up. When he fought Macca he could have fought another 3 top ten on the same night.

Did you watch the Thompson,Fragemoni or Mormeck fights?Or read Steve Cunningham practically begging for a fight?He wasnt undisputed at all.I like Haye,but cant be doing with the hype we are all going to have to listen to for the next couple of days.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Thing is he beat Cruiserweights so easily he had to move up. When he fought Macca he could have fought another 3 top ten on the same night.

Did you watch the Thompson,Fragemoni or Mormeck fights?Or read Steve Cunningham practically begging for a fight?He wasnt undisputed at all.I like Haye,but cant be doing with the hype we are all going to have to listen to for the next couple of days.

Its a great point you make and the niggling doubt I have always had over Hayes legacy at Crusierweight.

Its a fact he never filled in that missing piece in the Jigsaw and fight Cunnigham.

Lets be honest - Cunnigham was a proper World Class fighter - he would have given Haye a much sterner test than Maccarenelli.

Haye was not undisputed champion - that is a fact.


Probaly deserved to be ranked NO 1 after the Mormeck win.

But still Steve Cunningham would have been a real test -

[maxicarter]

Just watched Haye's interview - seems he thinks being smaller and more mobile than guys like Valuev (obviously) & Ruiz is going to be an advantage in the heavyweight division from now on ?
http://www.brandhatton.com/VideoNews/93 ... _Ruiz.aspx

[J]

Thing is he beat Cruiserweights so easily he had to move up. When he fought Macca he could have fought another 3 top ten on the same night.

Did you watch the Thompson,Fragemoni or Mormeck fights?Or read Steve Cunningham practically begging for a fight?He wasnt undisputed at all.I like Haye,but cant be doing with the hype we are all going to have to listen to for the next couple of days.

Its a great point you make and the niggling doubt I have always had over Hayes legacy at Crusierweight.

Its a fact he never filled in that missing piece in the Jigsaw and fight Cunnigham.

Lets be honest - Cunnigham was a proper World Class fighter - he would have given Haye a much sterner test than Maccarenelli.

Haye was not undisputed champion - that is a fact.


Probaly deserved to be ranked NO 1 after the Mormeck win.

But still Steve Cunningham would have been a real test -

utter shite.
Haye was undisputed cruiserweight champion went to the champs back yard and dusted him, cunningham was a threat was he really? Was this after he lost to Wlod in 2006 or before he lost adamek in 2008.

Haye beat mormeck in 2007. u two are talking crap that is a fact.

check your facts.. cunningham was getting beaten by much lesser fighters than haye so how could he be the number 1? Utter drivel.

[FLINT ISLAND]

Did you watch the Thompson,Fragemoni or Mormeck fights?Or read Steve Cunningham practically begging for a fight?He wasnt undisputed at all.I like Haye,but cant be doing with the hype we are all going to have to listen to for the next couple of days.

Its a great point you make and the niggling doubt I have always had over Hayes legacy at Crusierweight.

Its a fact he never filled in that missing piece in the Jigsaw and fight Cunnigham.

Lets be honest - Cunnigham was a proper World Class fighter - he would have given Haye a much sterner test than Maccarenelli.

Haye was not undisputed champion - that is a fact.


Probaly deserved to be ranked NO 1 after the Mormeck win.

But still Steve Cunningham would have been a real test -

utter shite.
Haye was undisputed cruiserweight champion went to the champs back yard and dusted him, cunningham was a threat was he really? Was this after he lost to Wlod in 2006 or before he lost adamek in 2008.

Haye beat mormeck in 2007. u tow are talking crap that is a fact.

Read my post again - I said Haye deserved to be NO 1 - the Linear Champ.

But to be a undisputed Champion you must tradtionally unify WBC / WBA / IBF titles.


Holyfield did it at Crusierweight.

Roy Jones did it at Light Heavyweight.

Haye did not do it at Crusierweight - he uinified WBC / WBA / WBO titles.

Its not a case of him not being able to beat Cunnigham - but his legacy will show he never won the IBF title.

He was a unifed champ - not a undisputed champ like Holyfield was.

[mickey1975]

Do you know what undisputed means?Im not saying he wouldnt have won,but the fact remains,there was another beltholder calling him out.That makes him disputed!As for Cunninghams loss,we can go on all day about everyones losses(with a tiny few exceptions).

[J]

my bad re IBF...apologies my oversight, i was wrong........

however fornicate me cunningham only helfd the belt for 6 months at the same time haye was fighting him at cruiser to suggest or imtimate that he was the one to give haye issues, is beyond the pale.

If you recall haye had jacked in fighting at cruiser and only came back down after fighting bonin at heavy to take FW's money and settle a best of british clash.

If he had fought cuningham Flint woudl still be wanking off over Enzo and saying he ducked him.

And yes we can talk about losses, but fact is cunningham was no better than your bog standard alphabelt holder once he was at world level he got beat regularly...

[Jeff Thomas]

Its a great point you make and the niggling doubt I have always had over Hayes legacy at Crusierweight.

Its a fact he never filled in that missing piece in the Jigsaw and fight Cunnigham.

Lets be honest - Cunnigham was a proper World Class fighter - he would have given Haye a much sterner test than Maccarenelli.

Haye was not undisputed champion - that is a fact.


Probaly deserved to be ranked NO 1 after the Mormeck win.

But still Steve Cunningham would have been a real test -

utter shite.
Haye was undisputed cruiserweight champion went to the champs back yard and dusted him, cunningham was a threat was he really? Was this after he lost to Wlod in 2006 or before he lost adamek in 2008.

Haye beat mormeck in 2007. u tow are talking crap that is a fact.

Read my post again - I said Haye deserved to be NO 1 - the Linear Champ.

But to be a undisputed Champion you must tradtionally unify WBC / WBA / IBF titles.


Holyfield did it at Crusierweight.

Roy Jones did it at Light Heavyweight.

Haye did not do it at Crusierweight - he uinified WBC / WBA / WBO titles.

Its not a case of him not being able to beat Cunnigham - but his legacy will show he never won the IBF title.

He was a unifed champ - not a undisputed champ like Holyfield was.

Hello Flint.... Michelzewski was champ at light heavy when jones was disputed champion

[J]

what comes round......................(he was wbo tho i think)

[Jeff Thomas]

what comes round......................(he was wbo tho i think)

No he wasn't.... Check boxrec homey.... Also, Naseem Hamed was the first to beat all four champions but even he wasn't undiputed as he was stripped when taking the WBA title.

[hitman_hatton1]

agree on the cunningham thing.

not a big name.

but would have well and truly settled things at cruiser.

i think he's looked fairly good at heavy so far.

owned bonin.

bounced barrett around for 5 rds.

did enough to see off valuev.

ruiz will tell us more. ;;-)

[FLINT ISLAND]

my bad re IBF...apologies my oversight, i was wrong........

however eff me cunningham only helfd the belt for 6 months at the same time haye was fighting him at cruiser to suggest or imtimate that he was the one to give haye issues, is beyond the pale.

If you recall haye had jacked in fighting at cruiser and only came back down after fighting bonin at heavy to take FW's money and settle a best of british clash.

If he had fought cuningham Flint woudl still be wanking off over Enzo and saying he ducked him.

And yes we can talk about losses, but fact is cunningham was no better than your bog standard alphabelt holder once he was at world level he got beat regularly...

Your wrong again - you sucking Hayes bollocks too hard and overlooking what really happened

Haye took the Bonin fight as a tune up to get himself fit for Mormeck

Bonin then Mormeck then Maccarenelli -

[hitman_hatton1]

i agree with his essential point though.

haye only came back down for the payday and he knew enzo would be easy meat.

[FLINT ISLAND]

utter shite.
Haye was undisputed cruiserweight champion went to the champs back yard and dusted him, cunningham was a threat was he really? Was this after he lost to Wlod in 2006 or before he lost adamek in 2008.

Haye beat mormeck in 2007. u tow are talking crap that is a fact.

Read my post again - I said Haye deserved to be NO 1 - the Linear Champ.

But to be a undisputed Champion you must tradtionally unify WBC / WBA / IBF titles.


Holyfield did it at Crusierweight.

Roy Jones did it at Light Heavyweight.

Haye did not do it at Crusierweight - he uinified WBC / WBA / WBO titles.

Its not a case of him not being able to beat Cunnigham - but his legacy will show he never won the IBF title.

He was a unifed champ - not a undisputed champ like Holyfield was.

Hello Flint.... Michelzewski was champ at light heavy when jones was disputed champion

Yes I realise that

But I always thought that the tradional standard of being undisputed champ was to unify the main 3 like Mike Tyson did as a young man - WBC / WBA / IBF

The WBO is newer and the least regarded of the other 3........or at least it was - but times do change and standards change

so pherhaps you can only be considered undisputed if you unifty the WBO as well these days

[damianhucker1]

its got eff all to do with which belts you hold , if your a multiple belt champion you can be called undisputed champion if no one in general disputes your the real champion of that division , so on that merit haye was the undisputed king of the cruiserweights , at least short term , read the dictionary for what undisputed means , im the undisputed champion of my street , ive not got a belt to prove it but no one would dispute it lol , you get my point .

[Finn]

Its a great point you make and the niggling doubt I have always had over Hayes legacy at Crusierweight.

Its a fact he never filled in that missing piece in the Jigsaw and fight Cunnigham.

Lets be honest - Cunnigham was a proper World Class fighter - he would have given Haye a much sterner test than Maccarenelli.

Haye was not undisputed champion - that is a fact.


Probaly deserved to be ranked NO 1 after the Mormeck win.

But still Steve Cunningham would have been a real test -

utter shite.
Haye was undisputed cruiserweight champion went to the champs back yard and dusted him, cunningham was a threat was he really? Was this after he lost to Wlod in 2006 or before he lost adamek in 2008.

Haye beat mormeck in 2007. u tow are talking crap that is a fact.

Read my post again - I said Haye deserved to be NO 1 - the Linear Champ.

But to be a undisputed Champion you must tradtionally unify WBC / WBA / IBF titles.


Holyfield did it at Crusierweight.

Roy Jones did it at Light Heavyweight.

Haye did not do it at Crusierweight - he uinified WBC / WBA / WBO titles.

Its not a case of him not being able to beat Cunnigham - but his legacy will show he never won the IBF title.

He was a unifed champ - not a undisputed champ like Holyfield was.

That was down to the difficulty in holding all the belts at one time, its virtually impossible these days.

Haye is certainly world class weather he can do the same in the heavyweight as he did a cruiser is another matter, the ruiz fight will be a good measuring stick though!

[CheckHook]

The idea that Haye wasn't undisputed beacause he didnt' hold every version of the world title at the same time is a big stretch. If that's the critera there really aren't gonna be many undisputed champs over the next 100 years. Haye took out the lineal champ via KO and then unified another belt via KO and held a few alphabets + the ring title. Cunningham was there, but he was just a very ordinary belt holder. Certainly not enough to deny Haye the mantel of undisputed Crusier champ. If you are one of the people who say Haye wasn't undisputed then I wouldn't hold your breath about seeing many undisputed champs in your lifetime.

[FLINT ISLAND]

The idea that Haye wasn't undisputed beacause he didnt' hold every version of the world title at the same time is a big stretch. If that's the critera there really aren't gonna be many undisputed champs over the next 100 years. Haye took out the lineal champ via KO and then unified another belt via KO and held a few alphabets + the ring title. Cunningham was there, but he was just a very ordinary belt holder. Certainly not enough to deny Haye the mantel of undisputed Crusier champ. If you are one of the people who say Haye wasn't undisputed then I wouldn't hold your breath about seeing many undisputed champs in your lifetime.

Its not a idea - IBF title is part of the main mix of belts = its a fact he didnt win the IBF.

We can rule out joking nonsence belts like WBU and WBF and IBA and IBO, etc etc.

But over the years the main established belts have been - WBC / WBA / IBF and more recently WBO

Granted - Haye was the number 1 and the Linear Champ - I would have favored him to beat Cunnigham.

However Haye who claims he wanted to emulate hero Evander Holyfields achievements at Crusierweight then Heavyweight - failed to do what Holyfield did - WBC / WBA / IBF Champion.

Haye won WBC / WBA then opted for a easier fight and won the WBO title - good move - easy money - easy win and picked up another belt.

But legacy wise - a IBF belt would have been more impressive than a WBO belt.

I agree - you dont see many undisputed champions - because its a tough achievement - not only do you have to been a great boxer but you also have to work through the boxing politics to make fights happen

In my lifetime a few undisputed champions come to mind..............

Mike Tyson - WBC / WBA / IBF

Lennox Lewis - WBC / WBA / IBF /

Evander Holyfield - WBC / WBA / IBF @ Heavyweight and Crusierweight

Roy Jones - WBC / WBA / IBF

Joe Calzaghe - (didnt hold them at the same time - but done a clean sweep) = WBC / WBA / IBF / WBO

Bernard Hopkins - WBC / WBA / IBF / WBO

Naseem Hamed - (didnt hold them at the same time - but done a clean sweep) = WBC / IBF / WBO (and beat the reigning WBA Champion without the belt on the line)

[sendo]

Haye would have bounced Cunningham around the ring. Adamek exposed Cunningham and Cunningham made no effort to make a fight with Haye, he was more interested in exposing Enzo first. As a fight there was sod all interest in it at the time.

Mormeck and Enzo were the only two worthwhile fights for him before moving to Heavy.

[yiddo14]

Holding all 3/4 belts is not the only way to become undisputed world champ.

Bell became the undisputed champ when he beat Mormeck in their 1st fight(becoming WBC/WBA and IBF champ in the process). He then lost the rematch to Moremck, thus Mormeck became undisputed top dog(in between their fights, Bell didn't lose but got stripped, still doesn't detract from his standing)
Mormeck then got knocked out by Haye, who became undisputed top dog.

Whilst all this was happeneing, Cunningham and co were scrapping it out for the belt that got taken away from Bell purely because the IBF wanted to make a few more quid through sanctioning fees etc. The WBO doesn't even come into it as the top dog in the cruiserweights had never hald that title until Haye beat Macca for it.

Haye was undisputed champ in real terms. The others were paper titlists who benefitted from the organisations love of stripping fighters left, right and centre.

[Jon Saxon]

The WBO does NOT count.

Does anyone dispute Bowe or Holyfields claim over Damiani or Mercer or Moorer's?


Thought not.

[Small Axe]

Haye has proved to be a world class heavy - he now needs to prove to be an elitre heavy.

Where does a fighter become world class? If he is rated number 30 in the world is he not world class? Who knows? Either way Haye IS world class.

Happy Easter!