Joe Louis vrs Lee Savold(1951)a milestone or footnote?

[granberry]

.....dempseyfire has the answer about the significance of this particular match-up. granberry has a good description of the fight. i think it was ring magazine in its review said "Louis-Savold is the Louis of old" If it doesn't come across in print just say the words quickly.

One smart feller--he felt smart.

Two smart fellers---they felt smart.

Three smart fellers--they felt smart.

Four.................


Bet you can't make it to ten.

[Goodnight, Irene]

"Louis-Savold is the Louis of old..."

Sounds like the handiwork of Larry Merchant

[Brutu]

Maybe(possibly) it was the Muhammad Ali vrs Brian London bout which was the first world-wide satellite television broadcast?

[Brutu]

The Muhammad Ali-Sonny Liston fight May 1965 at Lewiston Maine was the first live boxing match beamed live to England(and presumably Europe as well)
via Early Bird Satellite II.
They had to wake up at 3:30 am if they wanted to see it live though.

[Brutu]

The first world heavyweight title fight to be shown live(On Free TV) across the Atlantic on satellite(Early Bird)
Was aired on ABC's live World of Sports ,
Ali vrs Henry Cooper II
May-21-1966 live from London England.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uXDVeR862o
(I think the commentators are recent voice overs?)

and here is some trivia for you.
Between 1951 and 1966,
24 world heavyweight championship fights were shown on closed-circuit television.
Which was the last World heavyweight championship fight that was seen on live( free American) television
previous to Ali-Cooper II?
Clue:it had been a number of years before.

[CNorkusJr]

The tape of Louis-Savold says it all. They both had 16 years of Boxing behind them at the time. 16 years. Back when fighting 8-10 times a year was normal. Without even looking at their records at that point- both were tired boxers by then. Even Ali and Joe Frazier were going downhill after 10 years of fighting.Ali was using gimmicks like Rope a dope and holding on in his later years to get to the later rounds.Ali can shuffle all he wants-all day long-but can he get one in the jaw and stay up is a question.Norton sent him a wake-up call. A heavyweight fighter will still have a knockout punch in him even when he's 45, just look at Archie Moore, but he has to evade the speed of a younger opponent.
Louis -Savold sold based on nostalgia of the great Champ he was Joe Louis-the legend.

[CNorkusJr]

And just to throw this into the mix. It was well known, that TV (free or otherwise) killed the club boxing scene in Boxing. Many Ring Mag articles stated this-and it makes sense. Why go to fights when TV has it free. So when you compare 100,000 people at a Dempsey fight, to a mere 4,000 for a Ezz Charles fight, you are comparing apples and oranges. After TV started, many of the NY arenas closed. St Nicks 1959,just to name one. You needed fannies in the seat to meet payroll. Today, I think the parameters changed. PPV ($60 a pop average) sells thousands upon thousands subscriptions yet the people will plop down $5,000 for ringside and the event will most likely sell out too(or close to it). The bottom line- it is how well its promoted. Just look at the recent Clottey fight on last month. This guy couldn't stand a chance in the ring-but the promoters made it seem like he was a great contender ( I know- he wore a belt-really). It got millions to believe. Believe in your head, not your heart which sell more tickets than you ever can think of.

[CNorkusJr]

[quote="jimglen"]yes, but though inevitable, this would lead to TV which most commentators blame for an overall decline of the sport begining in the mid-50s.

This in turn brought about the closing of small halls and fight clubs, less fighters in numbers and the eventual disecting of divisions, sanctioning bodies and demise of the sport. Of course HBO and pay per view capitalized and made big on the few big names available (comparitively speaking), and sanctioning bodies added to the mess by having their own champions, ratings - often different, one from the other, and generally we are left with the remnant of once a huge and popular, competative and great sport.

Progress, always comes at a cost. Sad thing is we could return this sport back to a more savory and exceptable commodity.

Just saw Jim Glen's above piece. I apologize Jim- Props to you on stating the fact first earlier on.

[Brutu]

I think I read where the reason that the Louis-Savold bout was used as an experimental commercial use on closed-circuit.
Was because even though it was a non-title fight.
But Savold's manager demanded a minimum of $100,000 for television and radio rights for the fight.
None of the networks made a bid.So it was decided to try closed-circuit and see how that would work.
Thousands were turned away from the 9 theaters that were showing it live.

[CNorkusJr]

Brutu Thanks for the research work from "Billboard" listing the theatre fights with how many theatres . It is very helpful in figuring out the various levels of financial advances this sport took over its history. The seeds were planted and whether the fights were considered experimental or not , it definetly reshaped how and especially WHO would participate in the largest grossing audiences for the future championship fights(or non-title). It also had a huge influence on mob control of who gets what fight and their monetary take from these shows.

[Brutu]

Here is some trivia and a question for boxing fans.
Anyone know for what reason why that particular fight June.15.1951 Madison Square Garden NYC was important, even though it was neither a championship fight or particularly competitive ?

from June-10-1951 newspaper
"The IBC regards this as an experiment and doesnt expect to reap much revenue from it.Some day in the future,its going to be the big money-maker".

Here are the six cities the Joe Louis-Lee Savold bout was shown in and the names of the theatres

-Washington DC/Lincoln theater,RKO Kieth
-Pittsburgh/Fulton theater
-Chicago/State-Lake,Tivoli
-Baltimore/Loew's Century
-Albany/Fabian Palace
-Cleveland/RKO Palace

[Brutu]

I was just thinking back to when I was a kid in the late 1960's.
When I remember there was a lot of interest in satellites.
Anyone here remember the live two hour BBC special satellite broadcast OUR WORLD?
Which at the time was a big event,
June.25.1967
the first live global round-the-world satellite broadcast.
Four communication satellites were used to relay it.
It was to feature 42 locations in 19 countries live,but Russia and some East European countries pulled out at the last minute.
Australia was represented,Parkes,Canberra(the phototron)Melbourne(4:50 am).
also Tokyo and Takamatsu Japan were involved.
As well of course broadcasts from London,Paris,Montreal,Mexico City and a Saturn V rocket launching from Cape Kennedy Florida.
Perhaps the best known live segment was the Beatles singing live
ALL YOU NEED IS LOVE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifET2bakYaE

[Brutu]

The Lani Bird II Satellite was launched from Cape Canaval Florida January-12-1967.
I think the first live boxing match to be broadcast from USA to Hawaii,Japan and Asia and Australia.
was Muhammad Ali-Ernie Terrell in February.1967.

[CNorkusJr]

Who was the live-free TV Heavy Championship contestants before Ali-Cooper ?

Great info. If I had to guess Marciano-Charles I

[jaclem2]

..marciano-charles I and II were closed circuit to theatres.

I'm guessing the free on home tv fight in question was walcott-marciano II.

[jaclem2]

...oops...just remembered - i saw charles-louis on home free tv, so that should be it.

[CNorkusJr]

good memory-thanks

[Brutu]

..marciano-charles I and II were closed circuit to theatres.

I'm guessing the free on home tv fight in question was walcott-marciano II.

Another clue.
His initials were F.P.

[Brutu]

Would Lee Savold have done a better job fighting Joe Louis and possibly winning if he had fought Louis in 1946?
Savold wasn't a spring chicken either in 1951 either.

Joe Louis born May.23. 1914.
Lee Savold born March.22. 1916.

[basham]

Just for the record=
The first televised championship fight on 7th.April 1938 in London between
Len Harvey & Jock McAvoy was not publicly screened.

The first publicly screened title fight was on 23rd.February 1939 in London between
Eric Boon & Arthur Danahar.

The worlds first televised boxing bout on 22nd.August 1933 at Broadcasting House,London
was a 6 round exhibition between Archie Sexton & Laurie Raiteri.

[Brutu]

bump-someone asked about television in 1949.

[Brutu]

One of the theaters that had shown the live event also made a kinescope of it so that the crowds that were turned away that day could watch the replay of the fight later that night.
CBS later broadcast the film version of it the following Wednesday on national television.
Here is a clip of the fight,which looks grainy and it looks like its a video-tape of the kinescope
from the
Bill Cayton and Jim Jacobs produced FIGHTS OF THE CENTURY television show of the early 1960's
.The original ring commentater's voice has been replaced by a voice over.

June.15.1951.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR9zg7B-4p8

[evrenb]

Hi

I have the kinescope of this fight...from memory its different from the youtube clip (visually as well as audio)...havent watched it in a few years though...

evrenb

[Caractacus]

I remember reading that perhaps Joe Louis was to fight Lee Savold the following June 1940 after Louis fought Paycheck.
so why didnt it happen?

[Caractacus]

The book to read concerning Muhammad Ali and his closed circuit fights and satellite tv is, .
MUHAMMAD ALI THE MAKING OF AN ICON by Michael Ezra(2009).
I just came across it earlier on-line trying to answer some of my own questions here.

The Clay-Liston fight in Miami Beach in 1964 was transmitted to Europe from a NASA satellite on a delayed basis.
"First American sports program to be shown abroad in its entirety within 2 hours of its taking place".
TNT made a kinesope to video-tapetransfer of the bout ,then took it to the NASA's earth station in Andover Maine which then transmitted the signal on Eurovision which aired and was seen by 165 million people in 11 countries,
including Yugoslavia,Finland,Norway,Czcheslovakia,Ireland,Spain and Sweden.

Here in America it was seen live on 263 closed circuit theaters and arenas by 530,000 fans.
Reportly it was also seen live by 250,000 on cable tv.

Footnote -see Sonny Liston vrs Cassius Clay thread