Dempsey-Firpo question

[yancey]

When the Wild Bull of the Pampas knocked Dempsey through the ropes in round 1, how long was Dempsey actually out of the ring?

The Wikipedia Firpo page says 17 seconds. True?

[Ric]

I've read nine seconds (see here), although if a boxer is knocked out of the ring, he has 20 seconds to get back in, unassisted, and on his feet.

[Woller]

There are no definitive proof that Dempsey were out of the ring for more than 9 seconds.

The 20 second rule was of course not in effect at that time. It is a much later invention. If you were knocked down or out of the ring, you had to be on your feet before 10.

Woller

[dempseyfire]

I know the film is sped up but to me it looks like Jack was definitely back in the ring before 10 . . I'd be shocked if the actual time was over 8 seconds.

[klompton]

The film is edited we have no idea how long Dempsey was actually out of the ring.

[Woller]

Correct, we have a problem there. No proof of wheather Dempsey made the count ot received outside help. We just have to go by the referee (Who had his hands full)

By the way "RIC" do you have a comment on your "20-second out ot the ring rule" at that time?

Would Joe Louis have been granted a 20 second count when he was knocked out of the ring by Buddy Baer for instance?

Woller

[klompton]

I found an article from the time the film of the Dempsey-Firpo fight was released whereby newspaper men who witnessed the premiere of the film complained heavily that it had been edited and surmised that this was done at either Rickards or Kearns instructions to supress evidence showing that Dempsey was assisted back into the ring. Rickard (or Kearns, I cant remember which) admitted that the film had been edited at this vital spot but denied that it was for nefarious reasons. Its interesting to note that two versions of this film exist. The regular theatrical release which we are used to seeing, and a more rare version shot from the opposite direction which was distributed to the armed forces for viewing among servicemen. Both versions are edited, leaving out the footage that could show how long Dempsey was out of the ring and whether he was assisted in getting back in.

[dempseyfire]

Interesting. It does seem though that these stories always seem to be exaggerated. See the Clay-Cooper 'delay' for example. I also remember reading that Louis 'barely' made it back to the ring from the Baer KD but the film clearly shows him getting up without much problem in a few seconds.

[yancey]

I always thought that Dempsey got a little help getting back in the ring.