Status of Titles - a discussion

[whicker]

These are, I think, the current titles a British fighter can fight for.

A discussion:

Master: Closer to a trophy than a "championship" , a decent enough prize, recognises the winner over a 10 round fight. Does add soemthing to a small hall bill. Suits experienced boxers of more modest ability and journeymen boxers.

Area: Nonimally, champion of a geographical area. Somewhat outdated in these days of irregular shows and nationwide travel . Few contests made annually at this level, very few defenses made.

English/Celtic: A somewhat more open title than the Area, usually used as a decent support bout on televised shows. Few contests fought at this level, and no logical liniar progession to the British title.

British Title: Traditionally, and generally well respected- the belt becomes the overs property on making 3 successful defences. Champions will usually aim to move on from the British title relativly quickly these days. Some questionable levels of opposition these days, but still generally does produce good fights- a well matched British title fight can be one of the most hard fought and enjoyable contests in British boxing.

Commonwealth: Technically covers Britain and a fair chunk of the globe, in practicse a parallell "British level" title, ruined by endless poor opponents.

EU Belt: fornicate this shot.

European Title: logically, one step "above" the British, as it covers a wider area. Some good contests at this leave, but equally, some carefully engineered match ups where one fighter has a clear advantage, with an opponent who perhaps shouldn't (logically) be fighting for the Championship (due to recent losses, limited record etc.)

"International"- Technically anyone from the world can fight for these, but in practise, utterly pointless.

Intrim World Title-

World Title- "The Big One." "Champion of the world" . In theory. Whilst these most certainly are the highest achievement, current matchmaking means that several fighters can hold "World" belts. It's daft, we know it really. It's just the way it is. Occassional "world" titles seem to have a soft touch , meaning the holder isn't generally recognised as being the best in the world.

[whicker]

I dont put much value in titles these days with the Lonsdale belt being the only exception but it's only a matter of time before that goes pear. Maybe an ABA title still has some standing at that level of the sport?

Thats a good point.

I don't know much about the amateurs, but is there only one world champion (as in, the winner of the world championship) etc?

[slapbangwhallop]

At the moment, the only title that still holds a largee degree of cache is the Olympic Gold medal - and even Audley tried to feck that up

[m1kee50]

I'd put the Commonwealth title lower than the British nowadays, it is harder to get decent Commonwealth challengers.

ANY title is a good credible title if it is contested by the best boxers eligible over a prolonged period.

[terrez]

I'd agree with your list of belts.

I personally think all the belts/titles/championships should be clarified by the board, they should explain the relation and importance of all t he contested titles to one another. This would give people a clear idea of the level expected of each belt and intern this will focus boxers towards achieving them or taking alternative routes.

The main belts I think a British/Irish pro who is looking to start off or push onward in their careers should consider these championships in this order..

( I agree currently British/Commonwealth are close but Commonwealth should be slightly higher due to the major increase of nations and boxers who are eligible to fight for it if they wish.)

1. Area Belt
2. English/Irish
3. British
4. Commonwealth
5. Euro
6. WBC/WBA/WBO/IBF world

Get rid of all the rest! LOL!

Belts like the masters I think should been seen more as tournament award rather then a legit belt that gives you ranking for holding it, it's great to spice up a small hall show. Like the prizefighter tournament, no 'belt' as such but entertaining and has its own rewards for winning.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

I'd put the Commonwealth title lower than the British nowadays, it is harder to get decent Commonwealth challengers.

There are plenty of good commonwealth title challengers - the problem lies with the weak and spineless sanctioning body that gives the green light for some of the worst mismatches over 12 rounds in the boxing world.

They could bring in some really good Canadian, South African and Australian fighters and they wouldn't cost that much to bring in either - it's not uncommon for undercard fighters to box for free in Australia and New Zealand! Australian title purses are small - no-one is telling me that bringing over a fighter from there would be any problem but oh wait! They might fight back and win!

[m1kee50]

I'd put the Commonwealth title lower than the British nowadays, it is harder to get decent Commonwealth challengers.

There are plenty of good commonwealth title challengers - the problem lies with the weak and spineless sanctioning body that gives the green light for some of the worst mismatches over 12 rounds in the boxing world.

They could bring in some really good Canadian, South African and Australian fighters and they wouldn't cost that much to bring in either - it's not uncommon for undercard fighters to box for free in Australia and New Zealand! Australian title purses are small - no-one is telling me that bringing over a fighter from there would be any problem but oh wait! They might fight back and win!

Aye I meant from the fans perspective, harder to see might have been the best way to put it... should have been clearer

[mickey1975]

The A.B.A is still a great title,and takes a lot of winning.The scoring can be dodgy though and a few of the elite boys dont enter because of international commitments.The world ams must be the hardest.Everyone is there,as opposed to the Olympics.It makes Frankie Gavin's achievement even more outstanding,to those in the know

[Billy_Boy]

EU Belt: fornicate this shot.

From a British fighter's point of view, I'd imagine this doesn't hold much kudos. However, for holders of less well regarded national belts within Europe, it would seem like a logical stepping stone to a European strap.

I agree that the Commonwealth belt has lost much of its status of late. It seems a shame that there now seems to be an endless conveyor belt of African fighters with seemingly unverified records - but often quoted as "4-0" on this website - vying for this once prestigious title when boxers from, say, Canada and Australia are overlooked. I'm not saying that there aren't worthy challengers from Ghana and Uganda; there are some very good boxers from these nations. However, it's a pity to see the Commonwealth shrinking at such an alarming rate.

[ra2006]

EU Belt: fornicate this shot.

I agree that the Commonwealth belt has lost much of its status of late. It seems a shame that there now seems to be an endless conveyor belt of African fighters with seemingly unverified records - but often quoted as "4-0" on this website - vying for this once prestigious title when boxers from, say, Canada and Australia are overlooked. I'm not saying that there aren't worthy challengers from Ghana and Uganda; there are some very good boxers from these nations. However, it's a pity to see the Commonwealth shrinking at such an alarming rate.

I totally agree with you. In Australia there is far less regard for the Commonwealth title and it is'nt seen as a traditional route to the world titles. In fact the Aussies view this belt as another British title, by fighting for this title would mean travelling halfway around the world for very little little reward and purse.

Generally the Aussies will favour going for the PABA or OPBF belts, or the piss poor IBF Australiasian and the equally poor WBO Pan Pacific tripe as a route to the World titles. The Commonwealth has lost it's shine here.

Also, as the WBF is operated from Melbourne and for some unknown reason they fight for a whole host of WBF crappy belts, for example the WBF Asia Pacific belt (???).

[computerrank]

Here are the average ratings for higher and lower rated, and combined opponents in ABC title bouts from last 2 years in Boxrec (10 title bouts in time period required at least) - some pointers for titles in scope

Code: Select all

+-----------+---------+----+---------+---------+---------+
| title     | interim | n  | r_h     | r_l     | r_hl    |
+-----------+---------+----+---------+---------+---------+
| WBASUP    | N       | 17 |   634.2 |   329.5 |   457.1 | 
| IBF       | N       | 67 |   454.4 |   222.2 |   317.8 | 
| WBO       | N       | 73 |   466.0 |   200.1 |   305.4 | 
| WBC       | N       | 82 |   451.8 |   203.3 |   303.1 | 
| WBA       | N       | 76 |   402.3 |   201.7 |   284.8 | 
| IBO       | N       | 39 |   356.5 |   205.7 |   270.8 | 
| WBO       | Y       | 18 |   273.7 |   190.8 |   228.5 | 
| WBA       | Y       | 29 |   287.1 |   143.7 |   203.1 | 
| WBC       | Y       | 23 |   286.0 |   143.9 |   202.9 | 
| NABO      | N       | 40 |   234.7 |   128.5 |   173.6 | 
| EBU       | N       | 59 |   235.3 |   127.3 |   173.1 | <---
| JP        | N       | 69 |   209.7 |   116.6 |   156.4 | 
| USBA      | N       | 18 |   177.9 |   133.8 |   154.3 | 
| WBANAT    | N       | 12 |   227.8 |    93.9 |   146.2 | 
| UK        | N       | 57 |   184.3 |   110.0 |   142.4 | <---
| WBOINT    | N       | 44 |   186.9 |   102.9 |   138.7 | 
| IBFINT    | N       | 17 |   191.8 |    98.0 |   137.1 | 
| IBA       | N       | 13 |   166.4 |    97.5 |   127.4 | 
| OPBF      | N       | 69 |   183.0 |    86.9 |   126.1 | <---
| WBF       | N       | 26 |   163.2 |    96.9 |   125.8 | <--- 
| WBAINT    | N       | 33 |   173.4 |    86.1 |   122.2 | 
| NABF      | N       | 67 |   188.3 |    78.4 |   121.5 | 
| WBAEBA    | N       | 11 |   170.8 |    76.6 |   114.4 | 
| WBCINT    | N       | 57 |   145.3 |    79.7 |   107.6 | 
| COMM      | N       | 53 |   167.4 |    68.6 |   107.2 | <---
| EEC       | N       | 33 |   144.0 |    77.0 |   105.3 |  
| IBFINTNAT | N       | 26 |   138.0 |    70.0 |    98.3 | 
| AR        | N       | 24 |   142.0 |    66.8 |    97.4 | 
| NABA      | N       | 38 |   145.1 |    63.9 |    96.3 | 
| WFO       | N       | 13 |   177.5 |    51.6 |    95.7 | 
| UKENG     | N       | 25 |   121.5 |    73.6 |    94.5 | <---
| FR        | N       | 46 |   140.2 |    60.6 |    92.2 | 
| PH01      | N       | 26 |   124.8 |    64.3 |    89.6 | 
| WBOLAT    | N       | 58 |   126.5 |    62.0 |    88.5 | 
| SOAM      | N       | 27 |   129.9 |    58.5 |    87.2 | 
| WBOAP     | N       | 47 |   138.6 |    50.0 |    83.2 | 
| IBC       | N       | 11 |   100.5 |    62.7 |    79.4 | 
| FEDCEN    | N       | 24 |   111.4 |    53.6 |    77.3 | 
| WBCCON    | N       | 53 |   128.4 |    42.5 |    73.9 | 
| WBCABC    | N       | 42 |   144.2 |    37.2 |    73.2 | 
| ZA        | N       | 56 |   112.2 |    47.3 |    72.9 | 
| WBOORI    | N       | 45 |   124.6 |    41.5 |    71.9 | 
| PABA      | N       | 89 |   132.4 |    38.3 |    71.2 | 
| IT        | N       | 30 |    81.8 |    58.9 |    69.4 | 
| WBALAT    | N       | 54 |   107.0 |    44.2 |    68.8 | 
| MX        | N       | 41 |   113.1 |    41.3 |    68.4 | 
| WBOEUR    | N       | 12 |   112.5 |    41.6 |    68.4 |  
| UKSO      | N       | 14 |    93.9 |    49.5 |    68.2 | <--- 
| WBOLAT    | Y       | 20 |   102.8 |    44.5 |    67.6 | 
| WBCUSNBC  | N       | 31 |   101.6 |    40.7 |    64.3 | 
| WBCY      | N       | 80 |    94.3 |    43.7 |    64.2 | 
| WBCMED    | N       | 21 |   103.3 |    38.8 |    63.3 | 
| PABA      | Y       | 18 |   110.7 |    34.7 |    62.0 | 
| EEU       | N       | 20 |    89.2 |    40.0 |    59.8 | 
| IBFPP     | N       | 28 |   101.9 |    33.2 |    58.2 | 
| FECOM     | N       | 27 |   101.2 |    33.4 |    58.2 | 
| WBCY      | Y       | 20 |    86.1 |    38.1 |    57.3 | 
| PH00      | N       | 25 |    81.3 |    40.2 |    57.2 | 
| WBCLAT    | N       | 53 |    99.1 |    32.0 |    56.3 | 
| WBCLAT    | Y       | 17 |    99.0 |    30.1 |    54.6 | 
| WBOAFR    | N       | 18 |   103.4 |    28.7 |    54.5 | 
| IBFMED    | N       | 10 |    75.2 |    39.4 |    54.4 | 
| WBOORI    | Y       | 10 |   102.4 |    28.7 |    54.2 | 
| WBOAPY    | N       | 15 |   102.0 |    28.4 |    53.9 | 
| FECAR     | N       | 53 |    86.8 |    32.2 |    52.8 | 
| WBCYINT   | N       | 20 |    85.9 |    30.9 |    51.5 | 
| IE        | N       | 16 |    78.1 |    33.6 |    51.2 | 
| WBOAP     | Y       | 14 |    93.8 |    26.7 |    50.1 | 
| WBFINT    | N       | 12 |    83.9 |    29.0 |    49.4 | 
| WBCFEM    | N       | 46 |    84.5 |    28.5 |    49.1 | 
| AU        | N       | 42 |    74.2 |    32.2 |    48.9 | 
| IBFYTH    | N       | 32 |    76.8 |    30.8 |    48.7 | 
| UKMA      | N       | 17 |    70.1 |    31.3 |    46.8 | 
| WBACAB    | N       | 21 |    69.2 |    30.5 |    45.9 | 
| CA        | N       | 15 |    70.1 |    29.3 |    45.3 | 
| WBAFEM    | N       | 40 |    67.8 |    27.6 |    43.3 | 
| CABOFE    | N       | 36 |    78.5 |    22.1 |    41.6 | 
| WBFAUSA   | N       | 13 |    66.6 |    25.5 |    41.3 | 
| BNLX      | N       | 11 |    92.5 |    17.0 |    39.7 | 
| WBABOL    | N       | 22 |    68.2 |    21.5 |    38.3 | 
| RU        | N       | 13 |    63.1 |    21.0 |    36.4 | 
| ES        | N       | 15 |    58.9 |    22.1 |    36.1 | 
| WIBF      | N       | 36 |    54.2 |    23.6 |    35.7 | 
| IBFAUS    | N       | 10 |    98.2 |    12.9 |    35.6 | 
| WBFINN    | N       | 14 |    57.8 |    21.4 |    35.1 | 
| ID01      | N       | 30 |    46.7 |    26.1 |    34.9 | 
| WIBA      | N       | 26 |    58.9 |    19.2 |    33.6 | 
| ABU       | N       | 26 |    51.1 |    21.7 |    33.3 | 
| WBCFEM    | Y       | 19 |    53.2 |    19.5 |    32.2 | 
| IFBA      | N       | 14 |    42.5 |    23.0 |    31.3 | 
| GBUFEM    | N       | 18 |    57.8 |    15.6 |    30.0 | 
| WBAPAF    | N       | 24 |    76.6 |    11.5 |    29.7 | 
| WBAFEM    | Y       | 10 |    42.7 |    20.4 |    29.6 | 
| WBCMUN    | N       | 43 |    55.0 |    15.2 |    28.9 | 
| KR        | N       | 33 |    54.3 |    10.1 |    23.4 | 
| WBCFEMINT | N       | 15 |    25.2 |    14.1 |    18.8 | 
| ID00      | N       | 11 |    36.0 |     9.6 |    18.6 | 
| CO        | N       | 10 |    39.7 |     7.0 |    16.7 | 
| MXFEM     | N       | 12 |    25.7 |     8.9 |    15.1 | 
| AUNSW     | N       | 17 |    26.0 |     4.7 |    11.0 | 
| GBC       | N       | 13 |    28.1 |     3.2 |     9.5 | 
| AUQLD     | N       | 27 |    20.4 |     4.3 |     9.4 | 
| BR        | N       | 39 |    17.5 |     2.6 |     6.8 | 
| GH        | N       | 10 |     5.8 |     7.5 |     6.6 | 
| AUVIC     | N       | 15 |    17.6 |     2.1 |     6.0 | 
+-----------+---------+----+---------+---------+---------+

[Deno1986]

EU Belt: fornicate this shot.

From a British fighter's point of view, I'd imagine this doesn't hold much kudos. However, for holders of less well regarded national belts within Europe, it would seem like a logical stepping stone to a European strap.

A good few of the Irish lads go for this belt. It is a viable way to climb the EBU rankings. Andy Murray has won it in the past, Paulie Hyland recently won it in Italy and there is talk of his brother, Pajo fighting for it in the near future.

[slapbangwhallop]

EU Belt: fornicate this shot.

From a British fighter's point of view, I'd imagine this doesn't hold much kudos. However, for holders of less well regarded national belts within Europe, it would seem like a logical stepping stone to a European strap.

A good few of the Irish lads go for this belt. It is a viable way to climb the EBU rankings. Andy Murray has won it in the past, Paulie Hyland recently won it in Italy and there is talk of his brother, Pajo fighting for it in the near future.

Exactly, its good for fighters from smaller nations like Ireland to get into the EBU rankings. Winning the British title (I think) automatically gets you in the EBU top 10 - whereas winning the Irish title doesnt. However, winning the Irish title gets you in line for a tilt at the EU title and winning that gets you into the EBU.

Thats my understanding of it anyway - feel free you correct.

[Deno1986]

From a British fighter's point of view, I'd imagine this doesn't hold much kudos. However, for holders of less well regarded national belts within Europe, it would seem like a logical stepping stone to a European strap.

A good few of the Irish lads go for this belt. It is a viable way to climb the EBU rankings. Andy Murray has won it in the past, Paulie Hyland recently won it in Italy and there is talk of his brother, Pajo fighting for it in the near future.

Exactly, its good for fighters from smaller nations like Ireland to get into the EBU rankings. Winning the British title (I think) automatically gets you in the EBU top 10 - whereas winning the Irish title doesnt. However, winning the Irish title gets you in line for a tilt at the EU title and winning that gets you into the EBU.

Thats my understanding of it anyway - feel free you correct.

Sounds right to me.