Another robbery in Germany

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 12 Mar 2005, 17:08

Timo Hoffman just got his ass handed to him and still won with scores of 115-112 116-111 115-112 , Mirovic took over after 3 rounds and won nearly every round after that he had a point decucted for holding (which they both where doing) but still should have been a round or 2 in front. Even the German crowd disagreed and where chanting big bob as they gave Hoffman the belt.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Mar 2005, 17:31

Shocked by this, A guy beaten by Joe Bugner could effectively beat the number 1 contendor for the European title. Hoffman did run Kranisqi close (although I thought Laun deserved the nod). This makes Williams' performance for the European title look even more strange - given that (on a bad performance) KO'd a fighter who ran Kransiqi closer than Sam.

I thought Hoffman would have won fairly comfortably and thought both Williams and Skelton would have to be near or at their very best to beat him..... Not so sure now.

I think both have got to look for Hoffman, and got to do it now especially as there is a bit of confusion concerning Kransiqi's future as champion.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 12 Mar 2005, 19:36

I think Danny Green probably feels he got robbed too. Beyer won by scores of 114-114 / 114-113 / 115-112, in a close fight.

I had Green a winner by 115-113, but it was close. The Aussie fought a strange fight, trying to outbox Beyer instead of steaming in. I thought he pretty much lost most of the early rounds as he stood off and allowed Marcus breathing space.
But Beyer seemed to briefly hurt him a few times, especialy with a left to the body - so maybe Green was holding back out of respect for Beyer's power.
Then he started to apply the pressure with improved results from round 9 on. I gave him rounds 9-11, leaving things all square before the last, on my card.
Then he caught Beyer with a big right at the start of the 12th, knocking him over for a count. Beyer hung in there but it must have been a 10-8 round at least.
Marcus seemed to think he'd lost at the final bell, but his promoter was all huge smiles. Maybe he knew something.......

The referee was excellent BTW - no dramatics and no nonsense.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 12 Mar 2005, 19:42

MightyWarrior wrote:I think Danny Green probably feels he got robbed too. Beyer won by scores of 114-114 / 114-113 / 115-112, in a close fight.

I had Green a winner by 115-113, but it was close. The Aussie fought a strange fight, trying to outbox Beyer instead of steaming in. I thought he pretty much lost most of the early rounds as he stood off and allowed Marcus breathing space.
But Beyer seemed to briefly hurt him a few times, especialy with a left to the body - so maybe Green was holding back out of respect for Beyer's power.
Then he started to apply the pressure with improved results from round 9 on. I gave him rounds 9-11, leaving things all square before the last, on my card.
Then he caught Beyer with a big right at the start of the 12th, knocking him over for a count. Beyer hung in there but it must have been a 10-8 round at least.
Marcus seemed to think he'd lost at the final bell, but his promoter was all huge smiles. Maybe he knew something.......

The referee was excellent BTW - no dramatics and no nonsense.

I had Beyer by 2 he fought a great fight until the 12, Green could have won this fight but the dumb bastard didn't throw enough and when he did he nearly KOd him. He should have come out like the last fight and he would have stopped him.

This is the best i have ever seen Beyer but he should retire because a rematch would see him KOd.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 12 Mar 2005, 19:56

Yeah I've no arguments with the decision, I had Beyer winning easy up to round 8, but thought Green pulled it back over the last few.

I see some people saying Green is shot? More like dumb I'd say. He could have won it if he'd been a bit more busy - when he started throwing punches hard and fast, he'd have Beyer looking troubled, but he just didn't do it often enought.

Threw it away really. But Beyer boxed well and probably deserved the win. Really love to see Calzaghe/Green this year.......

rockinchair · Post by **rockinchair** » 12 Mar 2005, 20:48

I cannot agree with the result.

. I was close before the last round, but this one was 10-8 for Green. I saw Green winning the fight.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 12 Mar 2005, 22:00

my neutral friend at the show in Germany had big bob winning by 3-4 rounds in his opinion.

He also has Beyer a clean winner...

I can understand why Green fought like he did, he obviously didnt want to go all out to KO Beyer early in case he didnt catch him.. He was probably lacking in confidence a bit in his stamina as he hasnt really had many longer fights...

he will come back a better fighter for the 12 close rounds he fought tonight.

both fighters earned well and come out of the fight with something gained

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 12 Mar 2005, 22:21

I think Green will be better for the loss, He knew straight after he fucked up and i don't think he will do it agian.

coneye · Post by **coneye** » 12 Mar 2005, 22:24

Green was easilly outboxed , he was counter punched all the way to the bank, Green's a fighter not a boxer and he tried to box Marcus instead of fighting him , Green dragged Bayer into the trenched in th last rnd and came close to stopping him , why the fack did'nt he do it from rnd five on , cos it was obvious he was getting outboxed

dandantheweatherman · Post by **dandantheweatherman** » 13 Mar 2005, 07:13

Like you guys I couldn't understand Green's fight plan last night. I had Beyer winning 115-113 but thought it was there for Green to win. He wasn't busy enough nor did he throw enough punches. I thought Beyer looked there to be taken.

My German isn't too clever, but I got the impression during the fight that the commentator didn't expect Beyer to win. He certainly didn't expect the fight to go 12 rounds.

Green should have jumped on Beyer. I wonder if Green was worried about head clashes and getting DQ'ed. Jeff Fenech didn't look impressed with Green at the end. Did Green think he'd won by the way - he was interviewed after the decision but German TV translated over the top of Green and it went too quick for me.

Beyer looked out of it in the 12th (and I wonder if he didn't celebrate much at the final bell because he was still a bit out of it!), but actually I didn't think the knockdown was a knockdown - I didn't see Beyer's knee or glove touch the floor. He wobbled back into the ropes and Green fell (accidentally) on top of him.

I'd fancy Sven Ottke to beat Beyer if he made a comeback. And Calzaghe and maybe even Mundine to beat Beyer (Bubi - deep breaths, calm blue oceans!!!). Anyway, Green-Calzaghe might be a fun fight...

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Mar 2005, 07:16

This fight wasn't on Digital was it? Seems like alot of you watch it, its normally only MW who has the equipment.

dandantheweatherman · Post by **dandantheweatherman** » 13 Mar 2005, 07:24

It was on German TV - Sat Eins I think - Bubi/Freheit will know which channel it was.

I've got an Astra decoder (I think), primarily to pick up Dutch TV (I used to live there and don't want to forget how to speak the language) but I get loads of German TV channels too. I also pick up some French, Portuguese, Spanish and Italian channels.

rockinchair · Post by **rockinchair** » 13 Mar 2005, 22:40

the fight was televised on ARD - das Erste.

Grey · Post by **Grey** » 13 Mar 2005, 23:32

Interesting: Hoffman suffered a detached retina.

Sweet P · Post by **Sweet P** » 14 Mar 2005, 04:04

dandantheweatherman wrote:Like you guys I couldn't understand Green's fight plan last night. I had Beyer winning 115-113 but thought it was there for Green to win. He wasn't busy enough nor did he throw enough punches. I thought Beyer looked there to be taken.

My German isn't too clever, but I got the impression during the fight that the commentator didn't expect Beyer to win. He certainly didn't expect the fight to go 12 rounds.

Green should have jumped on Beyer. I wonder if Green was worried about head clashes and getting DQ'ed. Jeff Fenech didn't look impressed with Green at the end. Did Green think he'd won by the way - he was interviewed after the decision but German TV translated over the top of Green and it went too quick for me.

Beyer looked out of it in the 12th (and I wonder if he didn't celebrate much at the final bell because he was still a bit out of it!), but actually I didn't think the knockdown was a knockdown - I didn't see Beyer's knee or glove touch the floor. He wobbled back into the ropes and Green fell (accidentally) on top of him.

I'd fancy Sven Ottke to beat Beyer if he made a comeback. And Calzaghe and maybe even Mundine to beat Beyer (Bubi - deep breaths, calm blue oceans!!!). Anyway, Green-Calzaghe might be a fun fight...

I was watching the fight with my brother who before the 12th thought that Green was paid to lose

I think he just stuffed up and tried to box instead of brawl.
After the fight Green said that Beyer was the better man this time and deserved the victory.
In the paper here today it says that Greens managment is going to offer Beyer 2-2.5 million to fight a rematch here in Perth.

popeye · Post by **popeye** » 14 Mar 2005, 04:41

This was a strategy fight.
Danny has a flaw that his punching power has overwhelmed. He doesn't go to the body, pure & simple. It's quite extraordinary really.
The Germans called him "Robotic" but the hint was ignored.
They told Beyer to protect his head with a high guard. It was a calculated risk based on Greens previous fights.
When Danny was about ot unwind, Beyer ripped him to the liver. Danny's hand came down but Beyer stayed cool.
It as a brilliant strategy because Beyer kept doing it very sparingly all night. It threw Greens timing out & beyers counterpunching looked the faster because of the tentativeness of Green brought about by these brief forays to the body.
The irony of the whole affair was that Danny dropped him twice in the first fight & he got back up. That would indicate that Beyer has a good chin & Green would need to get a clear crack at it, & the only way that was going to happen was working on the body, which he never did. & the rest is history.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 14 Mar 2005, 06:42

dandantheweatherman wrote:Like you guys I couldn't understand Green's fight plan last night. I had Beyer winning 115-113 but thought it was there for Green to win. He wasn't busy enough nor did he throw enough punches. I thought Beyer looked there to be taken.

My German isn't too clever, but I got the impression during the fight that the commentator didn't expect Beyer to win. He certainly didn't expect the fight to go 12 rounds.

Green should have jumped on Beyer. I wonder if Green was worried about head clashes and getting DQ'ed. Jeff Fenech didn't look impressed with Green at the end. Did Green think he'd won by the way - he was interviewed after the decision but German TV translated over the top of Green and it went too quick for me.

Beyer looked out of it in the 12th (and I wonder if he didn't celebrate much at the final bell because he was still a bit out of it!), but actually I didn't think the knockdown was a knockdown - I didn't see Beyer's knee or glove touch the floor. He wobbled back into the ropes and Green fell (accidentally) on top of him.

I'd fancy Sven Ottke to beat Beyer if he made a comeback. And Calzaghe and maybe even Mundine to beat Beyer (Bubi - deep breaths, calm blue oceans!!!). Anyway, Green-Calzaghe might be a fun fight...

Under certain sanctioning bodies' rules, a referee can call a knockdown if a fighter falls into the ropes. If the referee deems that the only thing holding the fighter up is the ropes, a knockdown is called.

It's not a ruling I've ever liked though, as if the fighter is with it enough to bounce off of the ropes and regain their footing, why should they be penalised. It happened in the Echols v Brewer fight. Brewer got stopped without ever going down, whilst Echols was allowed to get up three times in one round.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 14 Mar 2005, 10:21

GreyMinus wrote:Interesting: Hoffman suffered a detached retina.

Serious, it might (well should, but you never know with science) mean the end of Hoffmann which is a shame. I quite like watching his fights.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 14 Mar 2005, 10:25

jamesmcdonnell wrote:If the referee deems that the only thing holding the fighter up is the ropes, a knockdown is called.

It's not a ruling I've ever liked though, as if the fighter is with it enough to bounce off of the ropes and regain their footing, why should they be penalised.

i say its a good rule myself.... if i fighter would have touched down had it not been for the ropes then an 8 count should be made....

dandantheweatherman · Post by **dandantheweatherman** » 14 Mar 2005, 16:50

Didn't know about the ropes thing. Cheers James.

However, Beyer fell into the ropes because Green seemed to fall into him - it looked like a half push/half stagger. That said, Beyer looked ready to go.

I had a small bet on Beyer and was shitting it at this point!!!

Beyer fought a smart fight, but I still think it was all there for Green to win. If I was a manager of a British middle or super-middle I'd be making an offer to bring Beyer to the UK for a crack at say Reid, Eastman, Calzaghe, Froch...I'd fancy them all in the UK against Beyer.

Incidentally this is nothing to do with any perceptions I may have about German judges (we're as bad here!!), just that fighting at home with people cheering for you must help. That's all.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 15 Mar 2005, 06:20

I fancied Beyer in this one, was going to put a bet on as the odds seemed a bit long to me.

The thing is, it's probably inexperience on Green's part. In the first fight he went hell for leather, and gassed a bit, which led him to get desperate and get himself DQ'd. This time it seems he paced himseld TOO well, and left too much in the tank.

Green can come again from this.

The SM division is interesting right now, if only Calzaghe would actually fight anyone who presents a serious challenge. Beyer, Lacy, Kessler, Green, Mundine, etc etc, but I fear it's just not going to happen.

mickeybeard · Post by **mickeybeard** » 15 Mar 2005, 06:38

The divison is as interesting as I can remember. I don't think any of the protaganists are P4P candidates, but there are some good quality, even match-ups that could be made.

Lets face it, as much as any of us may like the science of boxing, a good even contest between two slightly-less-than-great fighters is much more enttaining when you've got a few mates 'round (and is much more likely to attract casual fans to the sport) than watching Hopkins pick Eastman apart without ever leaving 3rd gear.