Rocky Marciano (1951) vs. George Foreman (1991)...

[Goodnight, Irene]

I once started a thread here between this Foreman & a peak Frazier, & the debate it sparked was really worthwhile.

How about this one, involving Frazier's stylistic predecessor? Foreman with a huge overall size advantage, Marciano with an equally-enormous youth advantage.

[gambler49]

Marciano by brutal KO!

[Goodnight, Irene]

Marciano by brutal KO!

Vote for him! Someone already put one down for Foreman.

I'm not ready to decide yet.

[gambler49]

Marciano by brutal KO!

Vote for him! Someone already put one down for Foreman.

I'm not ready to decide yet.

Yea I thought it was prime Foreman and voted him then I saw it (1991). Maybe u could vote for Rocky for me.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Ah, well. Nothing can be done now --- but at least we know the first vote is really for Marciano.

You know, I think I'm going to join you. I'm taking Marciano, too.

[Goodnight, Irene]

So vote for him then!!! I voted for Marciano, and there has only been two votes

It's really 3-0 Marciano. You & I voted for him, as well as Gambler, who mistakenly entered Foreman.

Foreman has no intended votes yet.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Tough call, Goerge had a hell of time getting to an old and fat Qawi. Though that was earlier in the comeback it could be telling as to how effective he would be against a swarming Marciano. His punches were straighter in his older days as opposed to the wrecking ball UC that surely would have decapitated rock in George's youth.

The telling punch in the fight is george's jab, if he can get that working it could be a long night for Marciano. I think foreman's ability to push guys away from the inside could play a role but Marciano was relentless.

I think it goes the distance with Foreman's features swollen and marciano bleeding. 12 or 15 could make a difference. I'm going to take Foreman over 12 by the most narrow of margins based on his incredible physical strength being able to keep marciano outside more than he wants to be.

If it's 15, I might switch to Marciano.

[Bricks]

the 1991 Foreman was a tremendous vintage!!

I see foreman doing exactly what he did to jimmy ellis in 3 with marciano.

Foreman was like nothing marciano had seen and his pulverising power and cross armed defence and relaxed demeanour would have just destroyed marciano.

[The Great John L]

Prime Foreman takes Rocky out inside of 3, but the old, glacier slow and defensive challenged grille salesman gets busted up and stopped in the middle rounds.

[Nelson Gateau]

Marciano. George couldn't hurt Alex Stewart or Tommy Morrison, and remember that the guy that Thunder KO'd in seconds went 12 with him, as did big Lou Savarese. Marciano won't have to run as much as Tommy did so he will be able to land his power shots and he wears George down and beats him to a bloody pulp.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Rocky obviously wouldn't be running at all. So what does the Morrison fight have to do with anything?

He also fought Savarese in 97, Grimsley in 96 & even Morrison was 93. Don't you think that matters? It's pretty evident that the ts is pointing to the Foreman that fought Holyfield. Not the one that fought Savarese 6 years later. Add that to the completely different style Morrison & Stewart employed and my real question would be...What?

Not for your prediction, but the how is bizarre.

[Nelson Gateau]

Rocky obviously wouldn't be running at all. So what does the Morrison fight have to do with anything?

He also fought Savarese in 97, Grimsley in 96 & even Morrison was 93. Don't you think that matters? It's pretty evident that the ts is pointing to the Foreman that fought Holyfield. Not the one that fought Savarese 6 years later. Add that to the completely different style Morrison & Stewart employed and my real question would be...What?

Not for your prediction, but the how is bizarre.

You are absolutely right. I should have checked the dates on those fights before I posted but didn't. I didn't remember how far after '91 they were (although the Stewart fight is still relevant I think).

Morrison actually took a few flush shots and they had little effect on him. As far as his running, I meant that he really wasn't sitting down on his shots. Marciano would have, and I don't think even the '91 George would still had the explosive power to stop him. I think Marciano has more power than Holyfield, and I think if he was landing those flush shots he would have done more damage than Evander did.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I would agree that Rocky had more power than Holyfield but he wasn't nearly as fast and I have a hard time seeing Marciano bounce side to side and unleash 6 or 7 power shots in succession that land clean.

I don't recall Foreman hitting Morrison clean. But i haven't watched it since the live fight.

[Bricks]

Marciano. George couldn't hurt Alex Stewart or Tommy Morrison, and remember that the guy that Thunder KO'd in seconds went 12 with him, as did big Lou Savarese. Marciano won't have to run as much as Tommy did so he will be able to land his power shots and he wears George down and beats him to a bloody pulp.

But we're talking the 1991 foreman who was still a man on a mission. not the somewhat unmotivated 1995-1998 version who was really just hanging around for the tyson money.

Also i dont understand the tommy morrision analogy. Are you saying Rocky marciano would dance and move for 12 rounds and only counter?! Plus tommy was a lot lighter on his feet and taller and had a longer reach than Rocky! Rocky was no fred astaire on his feet? he would have to michael jordan foreman from a distance!

No . Marciano would only stand and trade as thats the only hope he had and it was his bread and butter. and that why he would be consumed in the furnace within 4 rounds.

[Robinson]

The flush shots Morrison took were usually when he was moving away.
Morrison was always susceptible to being dropped (much like Patterson)
when they were coming and were commited mid combination, especially
if off balance, in a wider stance.

Now... Marciano would most certainly attempt to bring the fight to George
and would look to sink his head into Georges chest and thump his fists into
anything that he could.

The effects of him coming in and George going to him is academic, though
we may speculate.

In any case the Morrison-Foreman is as relevant to this outcome as
Marciano-Walcott would be.

Marciano never fought any one like Foreman at any stage.

Foreman however fought one man very much like Marciano..twice.

[The Great John L]

Foreman however fought one man very much like Marciano..twice.

Yeah, when he was in his 20's. Unfortunately, we're talking the fat, face first George who's greatest skill was self deprication and standup comedy.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Foreman however fought one man very much like Marciano..twice.

Yeah, when he was in his 20's. Unfortunately, we're talking the fat, face first George who's greatest skill was self deprication and standup comedy.

Out of interest, what sort of chance would you give Foreman (let's say, percentage-wise) against this Marciano?

[The Great John L]

Foreman however fought one man very much like Marciano..twice.

Yeah, when he was in his 20's. Unfortunately, we're talking the fat, face first George who's greatest skill was self deprication and standup comedy.

Out of interest, what sort of chance would you give Foreman (let's say, percentage-wise) against this Marciano?

Are you saying the '91 Foreman? I'd say that old George probably had a 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 chance. Boxing isn't black and white, so although I think the prime Rock is just too much for the slow, defensive challenged old George, George still had a great chin, an iron will and a darn good jab. And that gives him enough to win maybe 1 out of 3, probably busting Rocky up enough to get a TKO.

Prime George is probably the opposite, with Rocky having a very hard time taking any, but maybe the Rock could take 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 from a prime George.

[Bricks]

Foreman however fought one man very much like Marciano..twice.

Yeah, when he was in his 20's. Unfortunately, we're talking the fat, face first George who's greatest skill was self deprication and standup comedy.

some great posts here from John L and robinson....

Back to topic......dont forget he destroyed bert cooper and dwight muhammed qawi.
Sure they werent rocky marciano! But they were on their best day very good shorter fighters of that style of a frasier or marciano. George crushed them both.

I actually rate the 1991 Foreman very very highly.

[coachingGOLD]

Big George Foreman!

[The Great John L]

Foreman however fought one man very much like Marciano..twice.

Yeah, when he was in his 20's. Unfortunately, we're talking the fat, face first George who's greatest skill was self deprication and standup comedy.

some great posts here from John L and robinson....

Back to topic......dont forget he destroyed bert cooper and dwight muhammed qawi.
Sure they werent rocky marciano! But they were on their best day very good shorter fighters of that style of a frasier or marciano. George crushed them both.

I actually rate the 1991 Foreman very very highly.

Hmmm, A washed up and grossly overweight Dwight Qawi, and perrenial journeyman Bert Cooper. Have you seen the Qawi fight? George took quite a few solid shots in that one.

How do you think old George would have done against the James Toney that stopped Holyfield? How about Orlin Norris?

[Bricks]

Yeah, when he was in his 20's. Unfortunately, we're talking the fat, face first George who's greatest skill was self deprication and standup comedy.

some great posts here from John L and robinson....

Back to topic......dont forget he destroyed bert cooper and dwight muhammed qawi.
Sure they werent rocky marciano! But they were on their best day very good shorter fighters of that style of a frasier or marciano. George crushed them both.

I actually rate the 1991 Foreman very very highly.

Hmmm, A washed up and grossly overweight Dwight Qawi, and perrenial journeyman Bert Cooper. Have you seen the Qawi fight? George took quite a few solid shots in that one.

How do you think old George would have done against the James Toney that stopped Holyfield? How about Orlin Norris?

hehhehe I prefer to see Bert cooper as the guy who was close to beating Evander Holyfield and Michael Moorer for the HW title! As you know berts career started off well under joe fraziers tutelage but sadly by his mid 20's he did become a journeyman. Foreman beat him when he still had his best years ahead of him.I suppose it depends on your viewpoint i think it was a good win.

Again the way i see it Qawi wasnt washed up when foreman beat him he was still a world class cruiser who had given holyfield hell 18 months earlier. But he had blown up to HW and was way too short and waay overweight but like you admit he competed with George. Qawi was best at LH but after he lost to foreman he remained a top top cruiser contender for years.

Bottom line it depends on your interpretation as a fight fan, personally I see the 2 wins as meaning something in regards to how foreman 91 would have dealt with marciano.

orlin norris i never really held in the same regard as qawi or toney.

hehehe james toney 2003 v 1991 foreman is a great thread for another time!

[The Great John L]

orlin norris i never really held in the same regard as qawi or toney.

Why not? Is it because he actually beat a number of top 10 HWs? He also got jobbed in his fight against Tucker, as most people with me thought he won just about every round, but Tucker was a King house fighter.

Let's see, Snipes, Ferguson, Page and the Tucker rip off. He did lose to Cooper, but that fight was a complete shutout for Orlin until he hurt his leg and couldn't continue. Qawi wasn't even a HW, and when he fought Foreman he had gained about 30 lbs since his last fight. It was a pay day.

Norris was several steps above Qawi as a HW and actually knew how to get by a taller fighters jab, which Toney has never figured out. Of course you can't really rate Qawi as a HW since he only fought one HW (Foreman) until he was well past 40.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Foreman looked terrible against Qawi, he never even had Dwight near going down from my recollection. He was just too fat and exhausted to fight on. That was the worst George looked in his comeback.

[Robinson]

The Qawi fight served to prove that Foreman does not necessarily
own short and swarmer type fighters.

Sure it was the 'old' Foreman. But lets not forget it was Foreman who
hand picked Qawi, as a name opponent who was coming out of
his troubles with drink and coke. Foreman picked the former 175lb and
190lb king because he was 'doable' and had a name that would be
good on any record.

Qawi did his best and took the fight to Foreman. Could Marciano
do better against the 'primer' 1991 Foreman? Would the Rock that
ended Louis' career be able to damage George as well as he did
the Brown Bomber?

Re- Orlin Norris I thought he beat Tucker as well. I enjoy watching
Norris in action, it is an ashame he never went on to greater things.
I would not mind starting an open scoring thread for Norris-Tucker
to see how people had it.