Hvywt Charley Norkus photos.. Friends and Foes

[CNorkusJr]

Charley with one of boxing's greatest champions Ike Williams

[CNorkusJr]

Charley, Carmen Basilio, Frankie Ryff, Jim Winters.

[CNorkusJr]

Charley and Abe Attel, boxing champ and one of the men reportedly behind the 1919 Black Sox baseball scandal.

[raylawpc]

Ring Ratings 1955 Norkus still in top ten.

I believe those were the Boxing Illustrated/Wrestling News ratings, not Ring Magazine.

[The Great John L]

Charley and Abe Attel, boxing champ and one of the men reportedly behind the 1919 Black Sox baseball scandal.

Wow, what a great photo.

[CNorkusJr]

I stand corrected- the ratings were probably from Boxing & Wrestling Mag. This one sheet stood alone in a massive collection of mag articles I have. It was mixed in with Ring and Boxing/Wrestling Mags. Thank You.

[Brutu]

How many Charley Norkus fights were televised ?
Which ones were recorded on Kinescope?

[CNorkusJr]

My father claimed to have been televised 14 different times during his career.
I can only substantiate the following.:

The only Kinescope that I know and have on tape is Norkus vs Brion I (1950)

The Norkus/ Keene Simmons (1951) I have as a highlight reel (3-4 mins)
I do not know if it was televised.

Nardico vs Norkus I (Jan/1954) I explained above in detail-it exists and was shown on TV at a later date in 1954. I know it was shown again as late as 1970's in the south as a friend sent us a newspaper clipping/ad for it years ago. I dont have particulars on that.

Nardico/Norkus II national Live Tv- the broadcaster Jack Drees says during fight that this "is Norkus's first national TV appearance". The Brion I fight was on Tv though. I have the entire broadcast. (must have been local show -NYC area)
There lies I can see some confusion over National and local TV shows.

Jackson/ Norkus 1954 Live TV Broadcast (not sure if local or national)
I have Big Fights film version.

Cesar Brion / Norkus II National TV (I dont have any footage- I have Gillette
Cavalcade of sports radio version w/Don Dunphy at mike.

Charley Powell / Norkus I National TV (Big Fights Film exists of this)

LaStarza/ Norkus National TV ( big fights hi-lite exists as well as entire fight exists (no sound on full version)

Ezz Charles/ Norkus National TV fight (exists on film from Big Fights Inc)
A boxing fan recently posted this fight on Youtube. It is the version I have.If anyone knows this fellow, please send a note that I am deeply appreciative. I am not a you tube wiz, otherwise I would posted the other ones I have.

Joe Rowan/ Norkus (1956) entire broadcast National TV exists.

Pastrano/ Norkus (1956) entire National broadcast exists

My father remembered he was televised with Archie Moore for sure in 1958 (National) I do not have that fight.

My father then thought that his fights with (at least one-Crowe Peele 1957) and maybe Pat McMurtry and Charley Powell II (both 1958) were televised, but wasnt sure. I have no tapes of any of those three.
I will go through the scrapbook articles of those fights and see if any indication is there to enlighten these comments.
Temporary score: Kinescope- 1; National Live TV-8 fact, possible 3 more
National taped-1; Local TV -probably 2
All of the above listed as existing are available on the underground boxing market. They are mostly in good shape but you must remember 50-60 yrs old now. Just as you would view many of the ESPN classic versions you see on now. Most have original Pabst Blue Ribbon Commercials unless they were deleted out by dealer. They were humorous though.

[CNorkusJr]

Granberry- check out the size of Attel's fist.

[Brutu]

Here is the link to youtube of Ezzard Charles-vrs-Charley Norkus /February.18.1955(NBC-TV and radio).

Part One
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Letjrt-ksCg

Part Two
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAcZvu4ALbo

[Brutu]

I was looking at the old google newspaper archives.
Possibly the second Norkus-Curt Kennedy bout April-5-1950 from St.Nicholas Arena may have aired on WCBS-TV(NYC)?
(if so it appears to be from a on-line pay-per-view Newspaper article,New York Times April.5.1950)
Maybe someone can confirm if it was televised locally in the NYC area.

[CNorkusJr]

Could very well be. The 2nd Curt Kennedy- Charley Norkus fight was a Main Event. I thought that if it was a swing(pre-lim) bout that it was probably shown on TV as so to fill in time. As it was it was a Main Event- 1 Rd KO by Norkus over Kennedy. I never saw the film if it is out there.

Interesting enough though the fight is documented in Teddy Brenner's book "Only The Ring was Square" which Teddy talks about the IBC and what shady dealings were going on.

He claimed Kennedy went into the tank that night. When the book came out my father was not pleased in the light that he was portrayed in this book. It mentions how the odds changed right before the fight went off that night. Of course this brings up conversation of whats fixed or not.
I'd like to tell you what my fathers words were about fixed fights and It is well known and I heard it from many fighters- you didn't have to play that game. If you were approached, you were suppose to report it- to who ? Jim Norris ? Well anyway-You tell the racketeers that your not interested. Usually it was left at that . Problem was-you might not get what you want in the long run. One hand washes the other-see.
My father told me that the Kennedy fight, for my father, was on the level. If the fix is in there are only 2 or 3 people that have to know about it. The mob, the fighter (of course) and probably a cornerman (the guy with the towel in his hand).
Common Sense- The winner of the fight does not have to know he's involved with a fixed fight. Both fighters come out to kill each other anyway. If one is going down, he leaves himself open for a shot in the kisser and stays down. Why pay off the winner, why, if the fighter gets called in to testify on what he knows-he can honestly say "nothing".
My father said that he hit Kennedy so hard that night, that the punch would have Kayoed any of his opponents during his career. Its not his fault that the mob changed the odds, or if Kennedy stuck his face out. There is no mention of any follow-up on this fight or did Brenner state this in his book. Its all insinuation and to Mr Kennedy- it probably never happened.
I'd sure like to see this 1st Rd Kayo though. At that time, and for most of his career, my father was throwing looping rights and lefts that left alot guys flat out.

Another way of forcing a outcome is going through the judges or ref, a little more daring, but just as effective. I bring your attention to a book out by Tony Napoli (co writer Charles Messina) "My Father, My Don". Beckham Press 2008 Its about Tony's father Jimmy "Jimmy Nap" Napoli , Genovese Capo who controlled gambling back in the 40's-60's. The book has mention of Marciano, Kid Chocolate, and Paddy DeMarco and links to Frank Costello and the boxing game. The book is 1/4 boxing and rest you can figure out.
Thanks for posting the Ezz Charles- Norkus fight link.

[Expug]

This is a great thread. Thanks for the terrific photos and info mr. Norkus.

[jaclem2]

..this is one of the all-time great threads ever to be posted here!!!

[CNorkusJr]

Your Welcome. I don't mind telling you the things that my father shared with me over the years. I stood by and watched quite a few times when he was interviewed by various ring media (publications, TV, Newspapers etc,etc)
Also as I grew up I had questions of my own. I was 2 years old when my father threw his last punch in the ring. I'll believe to my dying day that what my father told me was the truth. Everything he said to me all washed clear when it went through the wringer and was backed up by many ,many boxing people who I met over the years. Most of those personal pictures that you see above were shot by me and I had the chance to talk to many champions and contenders many times over with my dad.
Now,with that stated, I am sure my father did not tell me Everything
that there was as far as shady dealings-All I can tell you was that he, and he alone, was not part of any shenanigans that he ever told me about. If you have a chance, look at the videos of his fights. He keeps getting back up if he was down, and won more than he lost. I can also tell you that looking through the scrapbooks- he was usually a 3-1, 5-1 or 7-2 underdog most of his career ,especially, 1954. If anything he was making money for somebody.
I am an active member of Ring 8 here in NY, as well as an assoc. member of the New Jersey Boxing HOF. I attend many fight cards and see a great many fighters who remain, Thank The Lord, from the Golden Era. Many of them told me that sometimes the fighter himself didnt even know he was in on a deal. Mgrs and Trainers sometimes cut deals that would better their fighter in the long run. Contracts bought and sold out from under a boxer.
Does Don King ring a bell with anybody. This has been going on since day one and usually the fighter goes broke or out of a championship.Why did Rocky Marciano hide his money in a mattress? Fights-It is what it is and most of them were on the level with its outcome.Its the spilt blood that the fighter gives and hopes there is something big in return.

[Brutu]

I think the Norkus-Brion fight was a nationally televised fight coast to coast on either CBS or NBC.(live on the East Coast and recorded on kinescope for the West Coast for showing later that evening.)
btw
Anyone know the name of the sparring partner that Rocky Marciano had hurt his hand on and which reportly was the reason given for the
Marciano-Norkus title fight having been canceled in 1954?

[CNorkusJr]

One of my fathers scrapbooks is currently lent out to a friend-It has the Marciano news articles. As soon as I get it back I'll answer your question.I expect it back by the end of this month.

[CNorkusJr]

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[CNorkusJr]

[CNorkusJr]

The above is a compilation of news articles on the 2nd contract with Marciano in April 1952.

The first contract was cancelled when my father hurt his arm in training, the two were suppose to meet in Providence, RI in 1950. The 2nd contract was signed but Rocky was suspended by the Maine Athletic Commission for 30 days when it was divulge that he fought his brother illegally there the previous month. His brother used the name Pete Fuller.The Rhode Island Commission as well as many others honored the suspension accordingly. During that 30 day period, the Norkus/Rocky Marciano fight was to take place. The fight was never rescheduled.

There was talk of a Marciano Fight going to Norkus for the title if Charley can get by Ezzard Charles. No contract was ever signed. Marciano was never injured during these 3 time frames.
When I track down the particular articles on the Marciano suspension, I'll post them.

[The Great John L]

Wow, great stuff. Thanks.

[CNorkusJr]

Tommy "Hurricane" Jackson vs. Charley Norkus

5/28/1954 Weigh-in before their Madison Sq. Garden bout.
Jackson by TKO 5th rd., Norkus with bad cut eyes.

[CNorkusJr]

Norkus vs LaStarza at Cleveland Arena 1/12/1954

Norkus by UD - 10 Rds.

[CNorkusJr]

Norkus vs Cesar Brion II at Madison Sq. Garden 3/09/1954

Norkus avenges 1950 lose to Brion with a split decision in 10 Rds.

[CNorkusJr]

Charley Norkus stands over Charlie Powell in their first fight
against each other in San Francisco Auditorium on 6/10/1954

Powell came into the fight undefeated (11-0) and Suey Welch (Powell's mgr and trainer) thought Norkus would be a walk through. Rocky Marciano was on hand to see the fighters up close. Powell was lined up for a shot vs. Marciano if he beat my father. The same for Danny Nardico a few months earlier.
Rumor had it that Al Weill owned a piece of my father, which would have been illegal at that time by all accounts I read. If there was a partnership between Ghee Leico and Al Weill it was unbeknownst to my father because it would of come out of Ghee's cut of the money.
What is well known, was the fact that many of the fighters had to go through my father to get a shot at Marciano. This is why Rocky went to alot of my fathers fights. Maybe it was this fact that my father did get 2 contracts to fight Rocky.
Norkus by 7th Rd TKO in this one. Referee was Frankie Carter. This one is on DVD out there and is well worth a look. My fathers left was on display here.
Added - Gorilla Jones was Powell's trainer I believe