EBF White Collar boxing semi pro whats it all about?

[wrimc]

So what are you sayin yes they make more money because they dont have the same costs as a pro poromoter? Or what?

[MeanMachine.biz]

No pro promoters will not give away 50% of the tickets sales so they have more ticket revenue coming back to them, its swings and roundabouts, i have promoted pro and semi pro and i earned more money on one show than i ever earned on semi pro but then some pro shows your doing your bollocks just to break even. its the same with semi pro and pro, some shows are good and some shows are not so good.

[damianhucker1]

No pro promoters will not give away 50% of the tickets sales so they have more ticket revenue coming back to them, its swings and roundabouts, i have promoted pro and semi pro and i earned more money on one show than i ever earned on semi pro but then some pro shows your doing your bollocks just to break even. its the same with semi pro and pro, some shows are good and some shows are not so good.

agreed , they dont always go to plan and some semi pro shows still fail to make a profit , the key is to get good fights made as cheaply as possible , im sure pro promotors take the same view but of course an away pro fighter will want more money than an away semi pro / white collar fighter , hence why pro's bring in all the latvians etc , as there cheaper

[wrimc]

So are the boxers purses for semi pro entirely related to the ticket sales for each individual boxer? What is the going rate for such a fight in comparison to the pro's and how often are fighters able to fight once a month once a fortnight?

[damianhucker1]

So are the boxers purses for semi pro entirely related to the ticket sales for each individual boxer? What is the going rate for such a fight in comparison to the pro's and how often are fighters able to fight once a month once a fortnight?

away fighters will have an agreed amount , nothing to do with tickets , but of course you need to use ticket sales as part of your budget , so you dont overspend on opponents for your fighters , theres no such thing as a going rate , you have to pay whats required for the particular fighter you want to use , but as a basic example most people wil pay an away fighter fighting for the first time , approximately £150 , but of course varies from one guy to the next and of course bigger shows can spend more.
fighters can fight as often as they want if they can get fights , i personally like to make it a bit like the pros , by not using a fighter thats been stopped in the last 28 days , but ive know lads to be stopped on my show and yet still be fighting a week later somewhere else , its up to the promotors and the fighters themselves to be cautious on that as if someone suffers heavy ko's 2 weeks running its gonna leave some damage im sure. personally think others should follow my lead on that.

[the truth]

dont mind boxers doing it for a laugh but alot of the ones i know tell ppl there pros, no there not! and theres no such thing as semi pro what a load of rubbish, they should bill them as semi_retired cos thats what they really are.

[Jeff Thomas]

dont mind boxers doing it for a laugh but alot of the ones i know tell ppl there pros, no there not! and theres no such thing as semi pro what a load of rubbish, they should bill them as semi_retired cos thats what they really are.

I hate that too.... Disrespects real pro's IMO. I remember watching a video of one claiming he was a pro on his myspace when I was active and thinking he was terrible i'd love a go at him and when I investigated he was an EBF boxer.

[damianhucker1]

dont mind boxers doing it for a laugh but alot of the ones i know tell ppl there pros, no there not! and theres no such thing as semi pro what a load of rubbish, they should bill them as semi_retired cos thats what they really are.

I hate that too.... Disrespects real pro's IMO. I remember watching a video of one claiming he was a pro on his myspace when I was active and thinking he was terrible i'd love a go at him and when I investigated he was an EBF boxer.

ok look at it this way , they get paid so there not amateur , thats fact . that leaves the terms semi pro and pro , which you both above seem to not like , i can undertsand that theres argument for both terms , but there not pro standard majority of the time , so therfor semi pro is the most fitting , i have no problem with an ebf or any other white collar boxer calling themselves semi pro , as in the meaning of semi pro , thats exactly what they are .

[tobyh5]

on my last show one of my lads dropped his unbeaten opponent after 9 seconds with a big body blow , to someone who didnt know they could have thought the guy was a nobody but he was unbeaten and definately a dangerous opponent , i like to think it was good match making by myself on behalf of my fighter , but in all honesty id have liked it to go on longer to entertain the crowd , and im sure most promotors feel the same .

Damian, the opponent you refer to, jamie, was unbeaten but he had fought a couple almost literally untrained guys out of the crowd at the Barn Club in Penzance in bouts where they swing for the rafters everytime, are knackered after a round and it is just a scrap with the only real relation to boxing being they have gloves on their fists. He had also had either one or two white collar bouts in a more controlled enviorment too. However, these guys, to my mind, are very basic, with rudimentary skill levels, without much grounding or knowledge. Good luck to them though, fighting in any way is damn tough and takes real balls. But I am 100% certain that any of the guys I know who have competed in white collar shows would not progress very far nor win too many ABA bouts. Jamie, for example, is a mate of mine but although his family and other mates think he is a tough lad (true) who is naturally quite hard (also true), they know fook all about boxing which is a sport which at its basics is fighting but a whole heap more in reality

I am 36 and only ever fought in ABA fights, but being a HUGE boxing fan, love any situation that involves a smack to the mouth lol. I did not do great in my own career with my best performance probably being putting up a half decent scrap before being stopped by Joe Harvey the year before he was in the ABA finals at Heavyweight (I was a 5ft 8" middleweight normally but at that time was fighting at Light Heavy due to slack training and carrying fat. I took that fight at heavy through bad advice by my coaches plus personal arrogance!!!)

i no longer do any boxing and instead train twice a day at the normal gym (cardio morning, weights evening) but do pop down the club where these lads train for a workout every now and my observations are that they are tough enough but a severe lack of true boxing skills. They are tough lads who fight. Not boxers.

**Although, the trainer Sean, he can kick some serious ass!!! He should sort his shit out and go pro. He can fight with amazing sublime skills, power, speed, timing, chin and fitness. He was ABA with me for years then swapped to kick boxing where he became European and World Champion. However Sean is now doing some white collar stuff and I believe is scoring mainly first round KO's. Shame, Sean is worth a lot lot more.

** Damian, thanks for the facebook reply to my message about videos of that show by the way, I presume it was you who replied, didnt realise you were a boxrec'er fella!!! :-)

[damianhucker1]

on my last show one of my lads dropped his unbeaten opponent after 9 seconds with a big body blow , to someone who didnt know they could have thought the guy was a nobody but he was unbeaten and definately a dangerous opponent , i like to think it was good match making by myself on behalf of my fighter , but in all honesty id have liked it to go on longer to entertain the crowd , and im sure most promotors feel the same .

Damian, the opponent you refer to, jamie, was unbeaten but he had fought a couple almost literally untrained guys out of the crowd at the Barn Club in Penzance in bouts where they swing for the rafters everytime, are knackered after a round and it is just a scrap with the only real relation to boxing being they have gloves on their fists. He had also had either one or two white collar bouts in a more controlled enviorment too. However, these guys, to my mind, are very basic, with rudimentary skill levels, without much grounding or knowledge. Good luck to them though, fighting in any way is damn tough and takes real balls. But I am 100% certain that any of the guys I know who have competed in white collar shows would not progress very far nor win too many ABA bouts. Jamie, for example, is a mate of mine but although his family and other mates think he is a tough lad (true) who is naturally quite hard (also true), they know fook all about boxing which is a sport which at its basics is fighting but a whole heap more in reality

I am 36 and only ever fought in ABA fights, but being a HUGE boxing fan, love any situation that involves a smack to the mouth lol. I did not do great in my own career with my best performance probably being putting up a half decent scrap before being stopped by Joe Harvey the year before he was in the ABA finals at Heavyweight (I was a 5ft 8" middleweight normally but at that time was fighting at Light Heavy due to slack training and carrying fat. I took that fight at heavy through bad advice by my coaches plus personal arrogance!!!)

i no longer do any boxing and instead train twice a day at the normal gym (cardio morning, weights evening) but do pop down the club where these lads train for a workout every now and my observations are that they are tough enough but a severe lack of true boxing skills. They are tough lads who fight. Not boxers.

**Although, the trainer Sean, he can kick some serious ass!!! He should sort his poop out and go pro. He can fight with amazing sublime skills, power, speed, timing, chin and fitness. He was ABA with me for years then swapped to kick boxing where he became European and World Champion. However Sean is now doing some white collar stuff and I believe is scoring mainly first round KO's. Shame, Sean is worth a lot lot more.

** Damian, thanks for the facebook reply to my message about videos of that show by the way, I presume it was you who replied, didnt realise you were a boxrec'er fella!!! :-)

yeah that was me pal , lol .

no your right , as i said above i already stated top amateur boxing beats top white collar boxing hands down , but there are some descent fighters out there , and from what i gather , yes , sean is meant to be pretty good , but not seen him fight , myself .

the main topic of this thread though seems to be that people cannot understand how white collar shows do so well , and id guess you will know yourself , they do seem to do well , whats your views on why you think ? what can you add to the topic ?

as for jamie , i can only go on what his trainers say really , they of course thought he was good enough , and i saw 2 videos of his fights , i guess they were the 2 more organised bouts you say he had done .
he was 4-0 coming into the bout , my lad 4-1 , so on paper it was fine , i try to make bouts as close as poss if i can , the crowd like to see 50/50 fights , which in my view is what makes white collar boxing so popular.

as a boxing fan though , i do aim to make my shows the highest possible standard i can , but i do also get the local sluggers that come to train , and i try to give them a run out on small shows in their home town , as more often than not there good ticket sellers , its this that lowers the standard level of a show but to me i want them to enjoy it and improve so theyve got to get a fair match up somewhere , and if i take them to go on someone elses show as opponents they would end up overmatched and take a pasting , im sure other white collar promotors do similar too.

[the truth]

dont mind boxers doing it for a laugh but alot of the ones i know tell ppl there pros, no there not! and theres no such thing as semi pro what a load of rubbish, they should bill them as semi_retired cos thats what they really are.

I hate that too.... Disrespects real pro's IMO. I remember watching a video of one claiming he was a pro on his myspace when I was active and thinking he was terrible i'd love a go at him and when I investigated he was an EBF boxer.

ok look at it this way , they get paid so there not amateur , thats fact . that leaves the terms semi pro and pro , which you both above seem to not like , i can undertsand that theres argument for both terms , but there not pro standard majority of the time , so therfor semi pro is the most fitting , i have no problem with an ebf or any other white collar boxer calling themselves semi pro , as in the meaning of semi pro , thats exactly what they are .

i disagree, if i was hanging a radiator for a friend and got paid does that make me a semi qualified plumber?? no pro fighters have brain scans, full medicals etc, and ring tests before they are accepted to be a pro, theres no such thinf as semi pro ur talikg shite

[the truth]

ebf is for wanna be"s .fact do the real thing or go home, or do white collar

[damianhucker1]

ebf is for wanna be"s .fact do the real thing or go home, or do white collar

well if that was aimed at me then im really confused , as it didnt make sense , sounds to me like your saying ebf is crap so dont bother with them , or if you want to do it then do white collar . ???????????? , firstly im nothing to do with the ebf and secondly ebf IS white collar , so in all honest i dont know what your post was about .

[damianhucker1]

I hate that too.... Disrespects real pro's IMO. I remember watching a video of one claiming he was a pro on his myspace when I was active and thinking he was terrible i'd love a go at him and when I investigated he was an EBF boxer.

ok look at it this way , they get paid so there not amateur , thats fact . that leaves the terms semi pro and pro , which you both above seem to not like , i can undertsand that theres argument for both terms , but there not pro standard majority of the time , so therfor semi pro is the most fitting , i have no problem with an ebf or any other white collar boxer calling themselves semi pro , as in the meaning of semi pro , thats exactly what they are .

i disagree, if i was hanging a radiator for a friend and got paid does that make me a semi qualified plumber?? no pro fighters have brain scans, full medicals etc, and ring tests before they are accepted to be a pro, theres no such thinf as semi pro ur talikg shite

you muppet , its nothing like that , these guys are doing it to earn a living , therfor its a job , very different to plumbing in a radiator for someone .

your showing a complete lack of respect for fighters in gerneral and i guess youve never boxed before as it takes a lot of balls to even get in the ring , so no matter what level someone does box at , in my opinion they deserve respect regardless .

youve no idea what it takes to be a fighter , if you did youd realise your comments are stupid .

to put the record straight , i personally call my shows white collar , but i really dont see the problem with someone calling it semi pro , as long as its a descent standard , so there not seen as trying to fool the punters .

[damianhucker1]

I hate that too.... Disrespects real pro's IMO. I remember watching a video of one claiming he was a pro on his myspace when I was active and thinking he was terrible i'd love a go at him and when I investigated he was an EBF boxer.

ok look at it this way , they get paid so there not amateur , thats fact . that leaves the terms semi pro and pro , which you both above seem to not like , i can undertsand that theres argument for both terms , but there not pro standard majority of the time , so therfor semi pro is the most fitting , i have no problem with an ebf or any other white collar boxer calling themselves semi pro , as in the meaning of semi pro , thats exactly what they are .

i disagree, if i was hanging a radiator for a friend and got paid does that make me a semi qualified plumber?? no pro fighters have brain scans, full medicals etc, and ring tests before they are accepted to be a pro, theres no such thinf as semi pro ur talikg shite

and just one final point to show your the one taking stupid , you friggin troll , some of the bigger white collar organisations are looking into introducing brain scans , if that becomes the done thing in the white collar scene then the smaller ones will pack in as they cant afford it or be seen as useless so no one will go anyway , and the others will fall in line with pro game .
if you had a clue what you was talking about you may know this . idiot

[the truth]

ur the idiot, go and promote muppet boxing clown

[Spud]

Damian,

I have been to some absolutely fantastic EBF shows - many of them are well worth the money the punter pays - in fact I will go further - I have not been to one bad show - the atmosphere is superb and some of the scraps are slugfests and I thoroughly enjoy every show - worked the corner on some.

However - recently gave it up - not because of the promoter, not because of the EBF, not because of the shows - it was down to the medical side of things.

The onus of responsibility if anything goes wrong medically is solely down to the boxer - they sign disclaimers before they enter the ring - please correct me if I am wrong - in addition there is no weigh in and thus the risk sometimes is high and to be honest I did not want that on my conscience.

I will stress again - every single EBF show I attended was truly brilliant entertainment and the punters loved the fights - however I fear for the day when something horrible happens and like I say I do not want to be part of it when it happens.

[Smigga]

A professional boxer is like a pregnancy - There's no semi about it!

[damianhucker1]

A professional boxer is like a pregnancy - There's no semi about it!

, but think about smigga , if your doing a sport that your paid for but not at pro standard youd be recognised as semi pro , why should boxing be so snobbish that it should be any different , again ill repeat i dont personally call my shows anything other than white collar , but can see why some do call it semi pro , which seems to be the name being more commonly used nowdays , also why should a 35 year old be told hes too old to box if hes not proffessional , no one tells my 51 year old dad that he cant play for his local sunday league football club , and if a semi pro club thought he was good enough , why shouldnt he be allowed to go to them and continue playing , and then who knows a small professional club could come in for him , i know thats all hypothetical , but it can happen , and i see no reason boxing should be so snobbish that they can be different , its the boxing snobbery that actually caused white collar boxing to spring up in the first place.


spud , id disagree with you on weigh ins , as every white collar promotor that i know does them , anyone not doing them is stupid , furthermore as the weigh ins are more often than not , on the night , it means people have to fight at what is more their weight rather than being able to drain and dehydrate etc , then bulking back up over 24 hours , anyone that did try to weight drain would feel really weak when weighing in on the night, also rounds are usually only 3 x 2's and bigger gloves are used , and sometimes headgear . also in my opinion there are less missmatches than there are in the pros , for example a 4-0 prospect in the pros may well fight a latvian with a 2-13 record , wheras in white collar he would be likely to be against someone with a similar record , all the mentioned factors above , make the risk of injury dramatically reduced , compared to a weight drained joe bloggs taking on a 15-0 prospect over 8 or 10 rounds , 3 minuttes long , with smaller gloves and no headgear , taking repeatedly good shots , a situation like that wouldnt happen in white collar , at least it wouldnt on my shows as the crowd would see straight through it , but yes i do see your points , and im sure eventually someone will get hurt on a show not done correctly , id like to say it will never happen on one of my shows , as im careful etc, BUT .... things can go wrong on any show , be it pro , amateur or white collar .
At the moment though im not aware of ANYBODY thats been seriously hurt in a white collar bout , correct me if im wrong , im sure you will do lol .
As for the discaimers , yes many people use them , but i know the northern EBF (European boxing federation ) do have proper insurance , id have assumed the other EBF and similar organisation like WCBC and BBF would too , but the problem with being covered for most white collar promotors is no one will touch them insurance wise due to the stupid things seen on tv such as the movie snatch , otherwise i know many promotors that would take up the insuarance if they could get it , its this reason the disclaimers are usually used

[Smigga]

I don't want to get in a debate about it mate, It's your livelyhood and good luck to you. I want no part of it myself.... People should go through the right channels in my opinion.
I've seen the shows first hand, juice heads wearing battered in bag mitts to fight in....

Someone is going to die, and or get severely hurt and the anti-boxing brigade will have a field day when in fairness, "we" want nothing to do with it

[damianhucker1]

I don't want to get in a debate about it mate, It's your livelyhood and good luck to you. I want no part of it myself.... People should go through the right channels in my opinion.
I've seen the shows first hand, juice heads wearing battered in bag mitts to fight in....

Someone is going to die, and or get severely hurt and the anti-boxing brigade will have a field day when in fairness, "we" want nothing to do with it

i always fully understand people having concerns , maybe its that theres some dodgy people out there putting on shows , i like to think i do it as well as possible . as i do it as a boxing fan and therfor know what people dont want to see , eg drug filled 20 stone ex body builders knocking crap out of each other , i train lads at a small gym and teach them to box not slug it out , some lads cant be taught regardless , but thats what i attempt to do , and you say you dont want to get into a debate about it , well im a fan pal , many on here are , i dont want a debate with you either .

[damianhucker1]

Funny thing is with this thread i was just answering someones questions as to what white collar boxing is , im fully aware that many people on here dont like it and wasnt trying to cause any controversy etc .

some dont like it , accepted .

just dont tell someone they shouldnt do it , it may be the only thing they know how to do , to be able to earn a living , but not good enough to be pro , a guy whos a binman may not be the best of bin men , but if someones willing to give him a job doing it , then why should anyone say he cant do it .
In fact ignore that , it was a stupid way of putting it

[Spud]

Damian on your points concerning Weight ins - b*llocks!!! - absolute b*llocks!!!

I have been to a number of shows and am flaberghasted whilst the shows are top notch and totally worthy of the money the punters pay - the total and utter disregard of the medical safety and weight ins.

Sorry pal - the EBF in my view does have a future - but it also needs consistency with regards safety of the boxers.

[boxer70]

I don't want to get in a debate about it mate, It's your livelyhood and good luck to you. I want no part of it myself.... People should go through the right channels in my opinion.
I've seen the shows first hand, juice heads wearing battered in bag mitts to fight in....

Someone is going to die, and or get severely hurt and the anti-boxing brigade will have a field day when in fairness, "we" want nothing to do with it

i could not agree more!

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

its the boxing snobbery that actually caused white collar boxing to spring up in the first place.

Absolutley correct! There is a reason why the EBF and 'unlicensed' boxing has took off is because the shows are a) well matched and b) value for money. The reason why the EBF are getting fighters to participate is because of the STUPID rules the AIBA have implemented regarding age limits in competing in the amateur circuit - what the ABAE could do of course is get rid of the age limit like they have done in Australia and Canada or even have a 'masters' division like they they do in the states - this alone could probably kill off licensed boxing on its own but no! Boxing people in this country want to stick their head in the sand and pretend its not happening thinking criticism of unlicensed activities will be enough - far as I am concerned - the status of 'professional' and correct me if I am wrong is that a boxer is getting paid for his or her efforts - well - if some 3 x 2 white collar guy is getting 600 quid to get in the ring - how is he or she not a professional in the true sense of the word?

People will go and see and pay good money for even matches - that is all anyone wants - and thats why people aren't going to go and pay to watch Johnny Prospect who at 6-0 fight 2-17 Don Stumblebumvis from Latvia because Johnny Prospect has passed a BBB of C medical and holds a license. Unless you are his mate or a relation and this is what British boxing is being relegated to. It never used to be like this by the way - and why on earth with a weak dollar - are we not importing more Americans to fight over in the UK when American boxers used to be a mainstay of the opposition? I know it makes more business sense to bring over some Latvian and to have it 90/10 in your favour but thats never going to bring people through the doors to watch it.

Even on the world scene it is just as ridiculous - WBC 'silver' belts and god knows what else - people aren't stupid unfortuneatley and won't pay good money they work hard for to watch one sided bouts who we know who is going to be the winner - you can save the sport but get rid of the politicians that are infested in the pro and amateur game and start making more even matches!