40 years ago: Ali vs Zora Folley

[yancey]

If Ali pulled down his pants and took a sh*t in the middle of the ring

your "news" media would say that that proved he was the "greatest of all time."

deleted.

I hope you weren't going to endorse that aberrant nonsense.

No, I had said something irrelevant to the thread so I took it out. Mainly was laughing at how Gran was making his point.

Both sides have legitimate points on Ali.

[ThatOne]

deleted.

I hope you weren't going to endorse that aberrant nonsense.

No, I had said something irrelevant to the thread so I took it out. Mainly was laughing at how Gran was making his point.

Both sides have legitimate points on Ali.

I'm up for a good and honest debate. Be honest. I like that word. How many time has Granberry said the Folley quote was apocryhal and insulted people when they cited it.

[granberry]

In 1961 Alejandro Lavorante knocked out Zora Folley in 7 rounds.

Nobody said that made Alejandro Lavorante the greatest fighter of all time.

In 1962 Doug Jones knocked out Zora Folley in 7 rounds.

Nobody said that made Doug Jones the greatest fighter of all time.

In 1967 Ali knocked out Zora Folley in 7 rounds.

That makes Ali the 'greatest of all time."

LOL

[ThatOne]

In 1961 Alejandro Lavorante knocked out Zora Folley in 7 rounds.

Nobody said that made Alejandro Lavorante the greatest fighter of all time.

In 1962 Doug Jones knocked out Zora Folley in 7 rounds.

Nobody said that made Doug Jones the greatest fighter of all time.

In 1967 Ali knocked out Zora Folley in 7 rounds.

That makes Ali the 'greatest of all time."

LOL

Zora thought he was great:


I went to New York to win the championship. I wouldn't have gone if I did not think I could win. I was confident. But Ali beat me at my own game. He did the same thing to Liston (knocked him out with a right hand, didn't he); Williams, another big puncher, Ali knocked him out in short order. Terrell, the great jabber, what happened to him? He got outjabbed. And Patterson, the guy with superspeed hands, couldn't match Ali and just stood around and got punched to pieces.

"The right hands Ali hit me with just had no business landing—but they did. They came from nowhere. Many times he was in the wrong position but he hit me anyway. Blatt! and the punch connected. I've never seen anyone who could do that. The knockdown punch was so fast that I never saw it. He has lots of snap, and when the punches land they dizzy your head; they fuzz up your mind.

"The first time I went down, I wasn't hurt, but I didn't know what had happened. Suddenly I became aware of the noise and then I saw Ali standing over me, and I figured I was down. So I wheeled around to look at my corner, to find out the count. I kept thinking, was that a right hand he hit me with? So what did he do but hit me with the same punch again in the seventh round and knock me out. I can't believe it, but that's what he did.

"He's smart. The trickiest fighter I've seen. He's had 29 fights and acts like he's had a hundred. He could write the book on boxing, and anyone that fights him should be made to read it first.

"I did things to Ali that have never been done before. He missed more punches and landed fewer than with all of those other guys he's been in with. I also cut the ring on him, reduced it so consistently that he chose to stand and fight. He's a safety-first fighter, no matter how foolish he looks. And I made him fight. That could have been my worst mistake, making him fight. I hurt him to the body, but he's tough. You can tell from the way he's put together that he's got pride. The man's a real fighter. Look at the way he acts out of the ring and you can see that. In the ring the guy doesn't show when he's been hurt. Not even the smallest sign, the way most fighters do. He beat me good, but he didn't beat me bad.

"There's just no way to train yourself for what he does: the moves, the speed, the punches and the way he changes style every time you think you got him figured. Wendell Newton, my sparring partner, jumped around and he was awkward, but he wasn't Ali. Ali is something else. I fought middleweights, even smaller men and they weren't as fast. This guy has a style all of his own. It's far ahead of any fighter's around today, so how could those oldtime fighters, you know, Dempsey, Tunney or any of them keep up? Louis wouldn't have a chance—he was too slow. Marciano couldn't get to him, and he would never get away from Ali's jab. The only one who would have a good chance was Ezzard Charles, a real fast heavyweight who was smart and was perhaps the best combination puncher of them all."


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm

[granberry]

Folley was an old fighter when he fought Ali.

Everybody knows that except Ali worshippers.

Folley was in his prime nine/ten years earlier when he was no. 1 or 2 contender along with Eddie Machen early in Floyd Patterson's championship days.

[ThatOne]

Folley was an old fighter when he fought Ali.

Everybody knows that except Ali worshippers.

Folley was in his prime nine/ten years earlier when he was no. 1 or 2 contender along with Eddie Machen early in Floyd Patterson's championship days.

Not only have I demonstated you are a liar but now I must demonstrate you are a hypocrite. Folley was about a year and half older than Ali was when he lost to Young, a fight you imply that Ali was in his prime.

[donnellon]

George Chuvalo was just on Ringside talking about his fight with George Foreman and how it was his wife who ran up to the ring and started yelling at Arthur Mecante to stop the fight. Now I realize the two were different fights, but it seems sort of strange that in one fight Chuvalo's wife would curse him up one side and down the other for quitting and then in another fight turn around and beg the refferee to stop the fight.[/quote]

Maybe his wife was a women.....

[hitman09]

Folley was an old fighter when he fought Ali.

Everybody knows that except Ali worshippers.

Folley was in his prime nine/ten years earlier when he was no. 1 or 2 contender along with Eddie Machen early in Floyd Patterson's championship days.

This one never fails to make me laugh. So much hatred, so little reason, so ignorant of the fact his bullshit has been called for what it is and he was owned ages ago, yet he still grumbles on.

[ThatOne]

Folley was an old fighter when he fought Ali.

Everybody knows that except Ali worshippers.

Folley was in his prime nine/ten years earlier when he was no. 1 or 2 contender along with Eddie Machen early in Floyd Patterson's championship days.

This one never fails to make me laugh. So much hatred, so little reason, so ignorant of the fact his bullshit has been called for what it is and he was owned ages ago, yet he still grumbles on.

It's sad that he make things up, gets called on it, and refuses to acknowledge it.

In this case there is hard evidence.

[yancey]

Folley was an old fighter when he fought Ali.

Everybody knows that except Ali worshippers.

Folley was in his prime nine/ten years earlier when he was no. 1 or 2 contender along with Eddie Machen early in Floyd Patterson's championship days.

This one never fails to make me laugh. So much hatred, so little reason, so ignorant of the fact his bullshit has been called for what it is and he was owned ages ago, yet he still grumbles on.

Granberry is 100% correct about Folley being well past his prime when he met Ali in '67.

The Folley fight was viewed by insiders as basically a deserved payday for a nice guy who should have had a title shot quite a few years earlier.

If I'm not mistaken, Zora was able to go back to Arizona and buy a house with his paycheck from the Ali fight.

[ThatOne]

Folley was an old fighter when he fought Ali.

Everybody knows that except Ali worshippers.

Folley was in his prime nine/ten years earlier when he was no. 1 or 2 contender along with Eddie Machen early in Floyd Patterson's championship days.

This one never fails to make me laugh. So much hatred, so little reason, so ignorant of the fact his bullshit has been called for what it is and he was owned ages ago, yet he still grumbles on.

Granberry is 100% correct about Folley being well past his prime when he met Ali in '67.

The Folley fight was viewed by insiders as basically a deserved payday for a nice guy who should have had a title shot quite a few years earlier.

If I'm not mistaken, Zora was able to go back to Arizona and buy a house with his paycheck from the Ali fight.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Ali was well past his prime when he fought Jimmy Young; a point he will never concede.

Oh, and I flat out busted him when he falsely attributed quotes to Zora Folley and cited Sports Illustrated as a reference. I also flat out busted him when he accused milky of making up quotes from Zora Folley because milky was being honest.

I really don't see how anybody can defend such mendacious and base behavior.

What's lost in the wreckage of granberry's lies and aberrant behavior is that Zora Folley was a good man and a decent fighter.

[granberry]

The Ali worshippers say their god is the greatest of all time

because he beat Zora Folley in 7 rounds.

Yet Lavorante and Doug Jones beat a much younger Folley in the same 7 rounds and no one ever suggested they were the greatest of all time for doing that.

The 'thoughts' of the Ali worshippers become more and more disjointed as they drag on endlessly in their tired act of selling their media created hero.

[ThatOne]

The Ali worshippers say their god is the greatest of all time

because he beat Zora Folley in 7 rounds.

Yet Lavorante and Doug Jones beat a much younger Folley in the same 7 rounds and no one ever suggested they were the greatest of all time for doing that.

Still no mea culpa for your lies and deceit.


"Liars begin by imposing upon others, but end deceiving themselves”

[granberry]

Ali worshipper TheOne has nothing to offer but ad hominem posts.

That proves he has nothing to offer in the way of facts.

Just tired ad hominem attacks on anyone who doesn't grovel for his sappy Religion of Ali.

[ThatOne]

Ali worshipper TheOne has nothing to offer but ad hominem posts.

That proves he has nothing to offer in the way of facts.

Just tired ad hominem attacks on anyone who doesn't grovel for his sappy Religion of Ali.

I don't know which is worse. Being a liar or being an imbecile. I am compelled to go with the former because being a liar is a conscious act.

You made up a bunch of quotes by Zora Folley and cited Sports Illustrated . Much to your chagrin I researched the Sports Illustrated archives and discovered quotes diametrically opposed to the ones you made up. You also accused milky of lying when he was telling the truth. Rather than admit you are a liar you continue to attack me. It's rather pathetic.

You just should give up; you know crying the proverbial "uncle". I'm sure you're used to it.

[ThatOne]

YOU LIE, milky.

Folley was quoted in Sports Illustrated the week after that fight.

He said specifically that Ali was not a good puncher.

He gave Liston as the example of a real puncher. "But that was ten years ago," Folley said, referring to his fight with Liston.

WHAT ARE YOU SELLING, milky?



WHY DO YOU LIE?


granberry

Ali worshipper TheOne has nothing to offer but ad hominem posts.

That proves he has nothing to offer in the way of facts.

-granberry

Res ipsa loquitur

Zora Folley Ranks Muhammad Ali As No. 1



I went to New York to win the championship. I wouldn't have gone if I did not think I could win. I was confident. But Ali beat me at my own game. He did the same thing to Liston (knocked him out with a right hand, didn't he); Williams, another big puncher, Ali knocked him out in short order. Terrell, the great jabber, what happened to him? He got outjabbed. And Patterson, the guy with superspeed hands, couldn't match Ali and just stood around and got punched to pieces.

"The right hands Ali hit me with just had no business landing—but they did. They came from nowhere. Many times he was in the wrong position but he hit me anyway. Blatt! and the punch connected. I've never seen anyone who could do that. The knockdown punch was so fast that I never saw it. He has lots of snap, and when the punches land they dizzy your head; they fuzz up your mind.

"The first time I went down, I wasn't hurt, but I didn't know what had happened. Suddenly I became aware of the noise and then I saw Ali standing over me, and I figured I was down. So I wheeled around to look at my corner, to find out the count. I kept thinking, was that a right hand he hit me with? So what did he do but hit me with the same punch again in the seventh round and knock me out. I can't believe it, but that's what he did.

"He's smart. The trickiest fighter I've seen. He's had 29 fights and acts like he's had a hundred. He could write the book on boxing, and anyone that fights him should be made to read it first.

"I did things to Ali that have never been done before. He missed more punches and landed fewer than with all of those other guys he's been in with. I also cut the ring on him, reduced it so consistently that he chose to stand and fight. He's a safety-first fighter, no matter how foolish he looks. And I made him fight. That could have been my worst mistake, making him fight. I hurt him to the body, but he's tough. You can tell from the way he's put together that he's got pride. The man's a real fighter. Look at the way he acts out of the ring and you can see that. In the ring the guy doesn't show when he's been hurt. Not even the smallest sign, the way most fighters do. He beat me good, but he didn't beat me bad.

"There's just no way to train yourself for what he does: the moves, the speed, the punches and the way he changes style every time you think you got him figured. Wendell Newton, my sparring partner, jumped around and he was awkward, but he wasn't Ali. Ali is something else. I fought middleweights, even smaller men and they weren't as fast. This guy has a style all of his own. It's far ahead of any fighter's around today, so how could those oldtime fighters, you know, Dempsey, Tunney or any of them keep up? Louis wouldn't have a chance—he was too slow. Marciano couldn't get to him, and he would never get away from Ali's jab. The only one who would have a good chance was Ezzard Charles, a real fast heavyweight who was smart and was perhaps the best combination puncher of them all."


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm


OWNED

[granberry]

When called on their worship of their god Ali as the 'greatest of all time'

because he managed to beat an old Zora Folley in 7 rounds

Ali worshippers cannot explain why Lavorante and Doug Jones were never called the greatest of all time for beating Folley in the same 7 rounds

years earlier when Folley was closer to his prime.

[ThatOne]

folley was quoted as saying that "joe louis would never of being able to beat ali . Louis wouldnt of being able to take alis speed and power..."

-milky skin

You LIE some more milky.

The only sources for your lies are your own milky imagination.

-granberry

RES IPSA LOQUITUR (REDUX)


Zora Folley Ranks Muhammad Ali As No. 1



I went to New York to win the championship. I wouldn't have gone if I did not think I could win. I was confident. But Ali beat me at my own game. He did the same thing to Liston (knocked him out with a right hand, didn't he); Williams, another big puncher, Ali knocked him out in short order. Terrell, the great jabber, what happened to him? He got outjabbed. And Patterson, the guy with superspeed hands, couldn't match Ali and just stood around and got punched to pieces.

"The right hands Ali hit me with just had no business landing—but they did. They came from nowhere. Many times he was in the wrong position but he hit me anyway. Blatt! and the punch connected. I've never seen anyone who could do that. The knockdown punch was so fast that I never saw it. He has lots of snap, and when the punches land they dizzy your head; they fuzz up your mind.

"The first time I went down, I wasn't hurt, but I didn't know what had happened. Suddenly I became aware of the noise and then I saw Ali standing over me, and I figured I was down. So I wheeled around to look at my corner, to find out the count. I kept thinking, was that a right hand he hit me with? So what did he do but hit me with the same punch again in the seventh round and knock me out. I can't believe it, but that's what he did.

"He's smart. The trickiest fighter I've seen. He's had 29 fights and acts like he's had a hundred. He could write the book on boxing, and anyone that fights him should be made to read it first.

"I did things to Ali that have never been done before. He missed more punches and landed fewer than with all of those other guys he's been in with. I also cut the ring on him, reduced it so consistently that he chose to stand and fight. He's a safety-first fighter, no matter how foolish he looks. And I made him fight. That could have been my worst mistake, making him fight. I hurt him to the body, but he's tough. You can tell from the way he's put together that he's got pride. The man's a real fighter. Look at the way he acts out of the ring and you can see that. In the ring the guy doesn't show when he's been hurt. Not even the smallest sign, the way most fighters do. He beat me good, but he didn't beat me bad.

"There's just no way to train yourself for what he does: the moves, the speed, the punches and the way he changes style every time you think you got him figured. Wendell Newton, my sparring partner, jumped around and he was awkward, but he wasn't Ali. Ali is something else. I fought middleweights, even smaller men and they weren't as fast. This guy has a style all of his own. It's far ahead of any fighter's around today, so how could those oldtime fighters, you know, Dempsey, Tunney or any of them keep up? Louis wouldn't have a chance—he was too slow. Marciano couldn't get to him, and he would never get away from Ali's jab. The only one who would have a good chance was Ezzard Charles, a real fast heavyweight who was smart and was perhaps the best combination puncher of them all."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm


OWNED (REDUX)

[ThatOne]

When called on their worship of their god Ali as the 'greatest of all time'

because he managed to beat an old Zora Folley in 7 rounds

Ali worshippers cannot explain why Lavorante and Doug Jones were never called the greatest of all time for beating Folley in the same 7 rounds

years earlier when Folley was closer to his prime.

Maybe Ali is considered one of the greats because he beat six IBHOFERS , four Olympic Gold Medalists, and was the first linear three time heavyweight champion.

You really should consider petitioning anton or buzz to lock this thread to protect you from further embarrassment.

[granberry]

Why is the Ali worshipper so desperate have the thread locked?

In the real world, Ali got beaten up by Doug Jones and Henry Cooper in two fights in a row,
had his fakes with Liston, then immediately after his fake "one punch" first round "knockout" of Liston showed he had no punching power at all as he fought a sore backed Floyd Patterson who couldn't even stand up straight, had his wins over crippled Cleveland Williams and old Zora Folley, got knocked flat on his back by his superior, Joe Frazier, had his weird, loosened ropes fight with Foreman, his fake "knockout" of Ron Lyle, got his ears boxed off by Jimmy Young, lost to 7 fight novice Leon Spinks, etc.

That crap passes for the "greatest of all time" ?

No thank you.

[BoxBuzz]

Folley was an old fighter when he fought Ali.

Everybody knows that except Ali worshippers.

Folley was in his prime nine/ten years earlier when he was no. 1 or 2 contender along with Eddie Machen early in Floyd Patterson's championship days.

This one never fails to make me laugh. So much hatred, so little reason, so ignorant of the fact his bullshit has been called for what it is and he was owned ages ago, yet he still grumbles on.

Granberry is 100% correct about Folley being well past his prime when he met Ali in '67.

The Folley fight was viewed by insiders as basically a deserved payday for a nice guy who should have had a title shot quite a few years earlier.

If I'm not mistaken, Zora was able to go back to Arizona and buy a house with his paycheck from the Ali fight.

Hey Yance....I bought a Chevy van from Zora at Lou Grub Chevrolet in Phoenix Az! A nicer guy you could never find! He sold cars in Phoenix into his last days.

[overhand_right]

Why is the Ali worshipper so desperate have the thread locked?

In the real world, Ali got beaten up by Doug Jones and Henry Cooper in two fights in a row,
had his fakes with Liston, then immediately after his fake "one punch" first round "knockout" of Liston showed he had no punching power at all as he fought a sore backed Floyd Patterson who couldn't even stand up straight, had his wins over crippled Cleveland Williams and old Zora Folley, got knocked flat on his back by his superior, Joe Frazier, had his weird, loosened ropes fight with Foreman, his fake "knockout" of Ron Lyle, got his ears boxed off by Jimmy Young, lost to 7 fight novice Leon Spinks, etc.

That crap passes for the "greatest of all time" ?

No thank you.

4 years and nearly 4000 posts on the EXACT SAME SUBJECT.

Do you have nothing to do with your time?

At what point does Boxrec clear out the detritus? Is there any quality control here at all?

'overhand-right and his Thomas Hauser Ali industry yadda yadda yadda' yes we've heard it all before.

4 YEARS. 4000 POSTS. That's all that needs to be said.

[ThatOne]

Why is the Ali worshipper so desperate have the thread locked?

In the real world, Ali got beaten up by Doug Jones and Henry Cooper in two fights in a row,
had his fakes with Liston, then immediately after his fake "one punch" first round "knockout" of Liston showed he had no punching power at all as he fought a sore backed Floyd Patterson who couldn't even stand up straight, had his wins over crippled Cleveland Williams and old Zora Folley, got knocked flat on his back by his superior, Joe Frazier, had his weird, loosened ropes fight with Foreman, his fake "knockout" of Ron Lyle, got his ears boxed off by Jimmy Young, lost to 7 fight novice Leon Spinks, etc.

That crap passes for the "greatest of all time" ?

No thank you.

Falsus in unum, falsus in omnibus.

Until you admit I caught you in a lie and exposed you for being the mendacious miscreant and charlatan that you are I will continue my crusade on behalf of righteous people everywhere.

[ThatOne]

Why is the Ali worshipper so desperate have the thread locked?

In the real world, Ali got beaten up by Doug Jones and Henry Cooper in two fights in a row,
had his fakes with Liston, then immediately after his fake "one punch" first round "knockout" of Liston showed he had no punching power at all as he fought a sore backed Floyd Patterson who couldn't even stand up straight, had his wins over crippled Cleveland Williams and old Zora Folley, got knocked flat on his back by his superior, Joe Frazier, had his weird, loosened ropes fight with Foreman, his fake "knockout" of Ron Lyle, got his ears boxed off by Jimmy Young, lost to 7 fight novice Leon Spinks, etc.

That crap passes for the "greatest of all time" ?

No thank you.

4 years and nearly 4000 posts on the EXACT SAME SUBJECT.

Do you have nothing to do with your time?

At what point does Boxrec clear out the detritus? Is there any quality control here at all?

'overhand-right and his Thomas Hauser Ali industry yadda yadda yadda' yes we've heard it all before.

4 YEARS. 4000 POSTS. That's all that needs to be said.

+!

[Robinson]

Folley was a name on Ali's resume. Sadly it was not the best Folley
taking on Ali at his or near his very best. The outcome was naturally
inevitable.

I enjoy watching Folley fight.


I think Folley, Johnson, Patterson, Jones and Machen could of made some
interesting series' had they met each other more than once or if at all.