Tyson, Holyfield & Lewis. Who is the best fighter they beat?

[Shazam!]

Goodnight Irene - I wouldn't go for an absolute like 'past-it' when referring to a boxer like Holyfield who was still performing at a very high-level, held all the world titles and was ranked p4p #3. I believe the best version of Holyfield was probably the early 90's but he was still in excellent physical condition and performed very well in the later stages of the decade against Tyson and Lewis. So no 'past-it' is not something I'd use to describe the above fighter.

With regards to Lewis, I believe his peak was around 1995-2000 when he dominated the likes of Golota, Akindwande, Briggs, Holyfield (1) and David Tua. The early 90's was his physical peak...the later stages of his career he was more experienced....and that time in the middle was the period where those two qualities were best combined.

Hey Ezzard - I lived in Taipei for two years and there were natural disasters that caused a lot of damage, but nothing like that. Was that one of your reasons for leaving?

[Ezzard]

Yes. Checked on a few friends as the city burned down. Gave the keys to my apartment to a family whose house was rubble. Walked out of the city with everything I could carry in a rucksack.

Would love to go back one day.

The day before me, my girlfriend (now wife) and some American friends went to visit our Aussie mates who lived up the mountain. There was a great location where you could look down on the city. We use to eat at our friends and then take cocktails up and look down on the whole of Kobe, felt like we owned it.

Funny really, the trauma made me realise how it must have been (and still is) for soldiers in war. How they suffer terrible loss and come back to nothing, no real appreciation of their sacrifice. How does it feel for a vet of any conflict switching on the radio and hearing some kid rapping about how life was hard growing up because he couldn’t afford a £200 pair of trainers/sneakers…?

[Controversial]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/classic/ ... id=2719112

Good link mate. I always thought Bert Sugar was a dick now that column confirms it.

[Ezzard]

I've never ever seen, or heard, Bert discuss a British boxer and not use that Dunkirk line. In fact I only bothered reading it just see if he used it again...

Somebody needs to tell him to get some new material.

The sport needs flamboyant characters but Bert has had his day.

[Heartbreak_Kid79]

A lot of people clearly don't like Lewis because, quite simply, he aint American and he aint Mike Tyson. He went over to the states very early in his career and beats everyone that was put in front of him. One of the main proprietors of this personal bias is the respected historian, Bert Sugar. Bert has always had something against Lewis. He was asked to write a story for ESPN after Lewis beat Klitschko. A Lewis appreciation column. But if you read the article, linked below, you'll find it tinged with spite.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/classic/ ... id=2719112

In this 'appreciation' column, Bert fails to acknowledge, let alone appreciate, just one of Lewis's strengths (his jab, ring smarts, composure, huge right hand? no, no and no)....he starts off by taking a dig at UK boxers and UK fans, basically saying they're not as good as Americans (300 million people compared to 70 mill in a country where boxing isn't as big, anyone?)...

He then goes on to say that Lewis was born in Jamaica and isn't really English. Another misinformed insult. Actually, he was born in East London, where he spent his early childhood years before moving to Canada for about 10 years and then moving back to London for the next 25 years.

Sugar then ends the column with a whole three paragraphs on Lewis's least known, least important win against somebody named Jackson, using this as an attempt to sum up what is in his view an unimpressive career. No mention of Tua, Morrison, Mercer, Grant, Golota, Holyfield etc

It's this kind of patriotic journalism which perpetuates a false and unfair retrospect on Lewis's career, but history has proven that the great fighters rise to the top over time and this is what, despite the likes of Sugar, is rightly happening with Lewis's legacy.

This post is spot on.
And that column by old Bert was atrocious.... he must have lost his marbles.

I guess its 'not cool' to be American and root for a foreign HW champion.
When Lewis regained the titles from Rahman, Jeff Ryan from wrote in the Ring, literally moaning about Lewis becoming the man again..... stating that Rahmans act was fresh, and yet to stale.
Hang Jeff... these guys are boxers not comedians!
Little credit was given for Lewis fine performance and brutal KO of Rahman in the 4th

[gambler49]

Tyson - Tubbs
Holy - Bowe
Lewis - Morrison

Tubbs ok
Bowe ok
But i'd r8 Holy above Morrison! Also the Bruno on that cold night in October was possibly better the the Morrison Lewis beat.

[dempseyfire]

Tyson - Tubbs
Holy - Bowe
Lewis - Morrison

Tubbs ok
Bowe ok
But i'd r8 Holy above Morrison! Also the Bruno on that cold night in October was possibly better the the Morrison Lewis beat.

Morrison??? Is that a joke??? Lewis scalps better than Morrison: Holyfield, Tua, Bruno, Klitschko, Mercer etc. the list goes on.

[Shazam!]

I'd also rate Ruddock, Tucker, Briggs and possibly Golota ahead of Morrison.

[skelp]

Tyson - KO4 Larry Holmes
Holyfield - UD Ray Mercer
Lewis - SD Ray Mercer

[gambler49]

Tyson - Tubbs
Holy - Bowe
Lewis - Morrison

Tubbs ok
Bowe ok
But i'd r8 Holy above Morrison! Also the Bruno on that cold night in October was possibly better the the Morrison Lewis beat.

Morrison??? Is that a joke??? Lewis scalps better than Morrison: Holyfield, Tua, Bruno, Klitschko, Mercer etc. the list goes on.

Maybe u should re-read the post I agree Morrison shouldnt be there. I sed Holyfield. Tua and Bruno are only coin tosses vs Morrison snd Vitaly only had 2 weeks to prepare for Lewis so I wouldn't put him in the mix. Il rank his oppenents on the night.
1. Holy
2. Bruno
3. Vitaly
4. Morrison
5. Mercer

Wen Lewis fought Vitaly, Mercer and Bruno he wern't his best thats why the fights where such a struggle. Wen he fought Morrison he was at his very best. Tua is overated I think cos all he is is a granite chined hard hiter and he looked rubish that night he fought LL.

I stated that Holyfield was his hardest oppenent. So I don't see ur point.

[gambler49]

I'd also rate Ruddock, Tucker, Briggs and possibly Golota ahead of Morrison.

Ruddock got smacked up by Morrison..
Tucker- Maybe.
Briggs- Wat did he ever show in the pro game that compare to Morrison? Although I will say that 1st round vs Tyson was very sweet. And it kinda showed u wat Clay woulda done wiv Tyson1 (The whole fight)
Golota no way! In fact Golota should never be mentioned ever again.

[The Great John L]

Briggs- Wat did he ever show in the pro game that compare to Morrison? Although I will say that 1st round vs Tyson was very sweet. And it kinda showed u wat Clay woulda done wiv Tyson1

Briggs/Tyson? Are you thinking of Tyrell Biggs? I think the original poster was talking about Shannon "The Cannon" Briggs, who we all know Tyson would never have had the balls to fight.

[BoxBuzz]

Biggs Briggs, Lewis, Louis, Lipton Liston, Moore, Moorer.........what's in a name? same game right? They're all a good bunch of Chess players.

[Shazam!]

I'd also rate Ruddock, Tucker, Briggs and possibly Golota ahead of Morrison.

Ruddock got smacked up by Morrison..
Tucker- Maybe.
Briggs- Wat did he ever show in the pro game that compare to Morrison? Although I will say that 1st round vs Tyson was very sweet. And it kinda showed u wat Clay woulda done wiv Tyson1 (The whole fight)
Golota no way! In fact Golota should never be mentioned ever again.

Hmm, Ruddock was pretty past it by the time he fought Morrison. But in 92 he had just come off 19 rounds with Mike Tyson and was seen as having an even chance of beating Lewis. That was a career defining victory for Lewis.

Briggs was a big puncher who came to fight. He caught Lewis with some good shots in their fight. Maybe I'm looking at the fight instead of their careers. In that case, Morrison may have been a bigger scalp, though Briggs had a very good record when he fought Lewis. But I'm not that familiar with his career, I'm just going by what he offered in that fight. So I could be wrong.

Golota I said possibly, but it was a good win in the mid-90's. He was a dangerous opponent. Unpredictable. He could be poor, he could be dangerous. At that point he was more dangerous. Here I'm probably thinking more of the way Lewis dealt with him. A 1st round KO against a guy coming in to the fight with that pedigree is impressive. OK he went on to be exposed later by Michael Grant, but he had some decent wins, was beating Bowe in both their fights and fought to a credible draw with Chris Byrd when he was 36.

[gambler49]

Biggs or Briggs it don't matter cos Tommy was better then both.

[The Great John L]

Biggs or Briggs it don't matter cos Tommy was better then both.

Are we talking the pre Atlantic City Morrison? In that case it's possible, otherwise the "damaged" Tommy wouldn't have lasted 1 round with "The Cannon".

[dempseyfire]

Tubbs ok
Bowe ok
But i'd r8 Holy above Morrison! Also the Bruno on that cold night in October was possibly better the the Morrison Lewis beat.

Morrison??? Is that a joke??? Lewis scalps better than Morrison: Holyfield, Tua, Bruno, Klitschko, Mercer etc. the list goes on.

Maybe u should re-read the post I agree Morrison shouldnt be there. I sed Holyfield. Tua and Bruno are only coin tosses vs Morrison snd Vitaly only had 2 weeks to prepare for Lewis so I wouldn't put him in the mix. Il rank his oppenents on the night.
1. Holy
2. Bruno
3. Vitaly
4. Morrison
5. Mercer

Wen Lewis fought Vitaly, Mercer and Bruno he wern't his best thats why the fights where such a struggle. Wen he fought Morrison he was at his very best. Tua is overated I think cos all he is is a granite chined hard hiter and he looked rubish that night he fought LL.

I stated that Holyfield was his hardest oppenent. So I don't see ur point.

Morrison was a hard hitter but had crap defense, crap chin and crap stamina. How can you rate him over Mercer when Mercer in many eyes beat Lewis and knocked Morrison into next week.
A coin toss vs Tua? Morrison is made to order for Tua, a guy with a weak chin who faded badly down the stretch. Tua was a much more dangerous opponent.
Vitali had been in training for 6 weeks for another opponent. In any case any version of Vitali destroys Morrison.

[gambler49]

Morrison was a hard hitter but had crap defense, crap chin and crap stamina. How can you rate him over Mercer when Mercer in many eyes beat Lewis and knocked Morrison into next week.
A coin toss vs Tua? Morrison is made to order for Tua, a guy with a weak chin who faded badly down the stretch. Tua was a much more dangerous opponent.
Vitali had been in training for 6 weeks for another opponent. In any case any version of Vitali destroys Morrison.

Mercer and Tua would be bad matches for Morrison. But it don't mean they are better. Who have they beat apart from Morrison?? And don't say a washed up Moorer or a washed up Spoon. And that crock of sht Rahman was well over rated due to his fluke win over LL. His win over a washed up Pinky = anything those other 2 have beat. However don't get me wrong here Mercer was a solid contender, but also remember he got outboxed by the fat washed up Larry Holmes. I'd rate Mercer & Morrison about the same wiv a slight edge for Morrison.
As for Vitaly he was preparing for a weak oppenent. U need time to mentaly prepare for such a challenge. Well u dont need, but it helps alot. Also Vitaly became a better fighter later on. And I think u need 2 read my posts more carfully cos I rated Vitaly ahead of Morrison. BTW Tua is way below all names mentioned.

[gambler49]

Biggs or Briggs it don't matter cos Tommy was better then both.

Are we talking the pre Atlantic City Morrison? In that case it's possible, otherwise the "damaged" Tommy wouldn't have lasted 1 round with "The Cannon".

I think that fight would end in 1 round either way...

BTW are u related to Shannon "The Cannon" Briggs??

[Shazam!]

I actually had that fight scored even. I can see how it could have gone either way....naturally the benefit of the doubt should go to the champion, but Mercer was aggressive and I wouldn't have complained too much if he had been given the victory. It's one of Lewis's few debatable decisions that he actually got. A lot of great fighters got much bigger gifts than this.

Mercer fought a great fight that night and Lewis wasn't at his best. It made for a great fight.

[The Great John L]

Biggs or Briggs it don't matter cos Tommy was better then both.

Are we talking the pre Atlantic City Morrison? In that case it's possible, otherwise the "damaged" Tommy wouldn't have lasted 1 round with "The Cannon".

I think that fight would end in 1 round either way...

BTW are u related to Shannon "The Cannon" Briggs??

Of course not. I'm just an unbiased observer who recognizes the conspiracy in play that has kept Briggs from his destiny.

[gambler49]

Are we talking the pre Atlantic City Morrison? In that case it's possible, otherwise the "damaged" Tommy wouldn't have lasted 1 round with "The Cannon".

I think that fight would end in 1 round either way...

BTW are u related to Shannon "The Cannon" Briggs??

Of course not. I'm just an unbiased observer who recognizes the conspiracy in play that has kept Briggs from his destiny.

Yea but u also think Wladimir is running scared of Briggs!

[The Great John L]

Yea but u also think Wladimir is running scared of Briggs!

He obviously is, because he has never fought him. He or his skirt wearing, panzy sister Vitali. 98 fights between them, and not once has either one had the balls to step in with The Cannon. Care to explain that?

[gambler49]

Yea but u also think Wladimir is running scared of Briggs!

He obviously is, because he has never fought him. He or his skirt wearing, panzy sister Vitali. 98 fights between them, and not once has either one had the balls to step in with The Cannon. Care to explain that?

LMFAO!!!!
Briggs is taylor made for Vitaly..... And wen did Vitaly ever run scared?
Man, u must be pulling my worm!

[The Great John L]

Yea but u also think Wladimir is running scared of Briggs!

He obviously is, because he has never fought him. He or his skirt wearing, panzy sister Vitali. 98 fights between them, and not once has either one had the balls to step in with The Cannon. Care to explain that?

LMFAO!!!!
Briggs is taylor made for Vitaly..... And wen did Vitaly ever run scared?
Man, u must be pulling my worm!

As I said, almost 100 fights between them and neither one of the sisters has had the balls to fight him. It isn't like these little girls have just started fighting. The Cannon has been around for a long time, and so have the sisters. Why haven't they been man enough to get in the ring with him?