Classic American West Coast Boxing

[Rick Farris]

I'd like to ask you West Coast guys something. Around 1990 I visited San Francisco to attend a relatives college graduation. It was the first time there for me. I wanted to see the old San Francisco Auditorium that held the old fights. I got there, I remember it was near city hall. I got inside and to my amazement , there was a boxing museum, on the 2nd floor I think.It was smallish in size ,but carried some great memoriabilia on local heroes like Art Aragon,etc etc. I read that a few years later, the place was remade into a concert hall honoring Bill Graham.

Can you tell me if the boxing museum is still inside ? If not, does san Fran have a boxing museum to visit. ? How about Los Angelas or other Calif. cities ? Thanks for any and all replies.

I don't know of any boxing museum in Calif.

There is a small exhibit commemorating Jim Jeffries at the Burbank Historical Society.

I live close to Burbank. I'll check it out sometime and see what they've got.

[Rick Farris]

I'd like to ask you West Coast guys something. Around 1990 I visited San Francisco to attend a relatives college graduation. It was the first time there for me. I wanted to see the old San Francisco Auditorium that held the old fights. I got there, I remember it was near city hall. I got inside and to my amazement , there was a boxing museum, on the 2nd floor I think.It was smallish in size ,but carried some great memoriabilia on local heroes like Art Aragon,etc etc. I read that a few years later, the place was remade into a concert hall honoring Bill Graham.

Can you tell me if the boxing museum is still inside ? If not, does san Fran have a boxing museum to visit. ? How about Los Angelas or other Calif. cities ? Thanks for any and all replies.

Boxing Museums . . .

"CNorkusJr" . . . Are you the son of Charley Norkus?
If so, I know that your dad was a helluva heavyweight in the 50's. I know that he KOed Charley Powell in San Francisco.
I also know that he whipped Roland LaStarza, and a lot of big names of that era.
He fought world champs Ezzard Charles and Archie Moore.
We have a semi-regular poster who lives in the Bay area of California. His name is Bruce, but he has not been posting lately.
I will try to get the info you are looking for. Welcome to the CAWCB thread.

By the way, there are no real boxing museums in California.
The WBHOF has been blowing smoke for thirty years about establishing a true museum. But it will not happen thru that organization.
What appears to be a simple reality, is actually a major undertaking in such a weak economy.
What is needed is benefactors, people with money and connections.
It must be somebody's labor of love, because it could never generate the revenue to support itself.

Something people are not aware of is how the International Boxing HOF maintains their Canastoga, N.Y. museum.
They try to keep this quiet, but the IBHOF has a federal grant. That is why they exist year-after-year.
This how they keep the champs coming for their event each June, and how they keep a museum operating.
Without the grant, they would have folded up long ago.


-Rick Farris
Former WBHOF Director/Historian

[Rick Farris]

Charley Norkus


birth date 1928-08-21
death date 1996-03-22
heavyweight
height 6′ 0″ / 183cm
residence Port Washington, New York, United States
birth place Bellerose, New York, United States
won 33 (KO 19) + lost 19 (KO 6)


1959-02-04 196 Waban Thomas 211 9-4-0
Camp Lejuene, North Carolina, United States W PTS 10 10
1958-12-19 197½ Charlie Powell 210 18-3-2
Coliseum, San Diego, California, United States L PTS 10 10
1958-07-26 193 Pat McMurtry 185 28-2-1
Cheney Stadium, Tacoma, Washington, United States L PTS 10 10
1958-05-26 193 Archie Moore 196 171-21-9
Civic Auditorium, San Francisco, California, United States L UD 10 10
~ referee: Jack Downey 89-100 | judge: Eddie James 85-100 | judge: Frankie Carter 86-100 ~

1958-03-24 197¾ Ollie Wilson 195 9-11-0
Arcadia Ballroom, Providence, Rhode Island, United States W PTS 10 10
1958-02-10 200½ Ollie Wilson 197½ 8-11-0
Arcadia Ballroom, Providence, Rhode Island, United States L TKO 4 10
Wilson was down in the 3rd, Norkus was dropped in the 4th. The bout was stopped after Norkus was driven through the ropes.

1957-10-21 197½ Leo Johnson 187½ 13-11-2
Arena, Bristol, Connecticut, United States W TKO 5 10
1957-08-12 194½ Crowe Peele 187 14-1-0
Municipal Auditorium, New Orleans, Louisiana, United States W KO 4 10
1957-05-28 194½ Crowe Peele 186 14-0-0
Municipal Auditorium, New Orleans, Louisiana, United States W UD 10 10
1957-05-07 195 Bob O'Brien 195½ 6-7-1
Scranton, Pennsylvania, United States W TKO 4 10
~ time: 2:45 | referee: Manny Geld ~
Bout stopped on a cut eye suffered by O'Brien.

1956-12-26 194 Willie Pastrano 189½ 37-4-5
Auditorium, Miami Beach, Florida, United States L UD 10 10
Scoring: 100-87, 100-90, 100-90. Norkus was knocked down in the 7th, on what many felt was a slip. (UP)

1956-10-29 195½ Joey Rowan 185 28-9-1
St. Nicholas Arena, New York, New York, United States W UD 10 10
Scoring: 6-4, 6-4, 5-4-1

1956-10-02 198 Roy Harris 185 16-0-0
Houston, Texas, United States L UD 10 10
1955-02-18 195½ Ezzard Charles 191½ 83-12-1
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States L UD 10 10
~ referee: Harry Kessler 1-8 | judge: Jack Gordon 2-8 | judge: Joe Agnello 1-9 ~
Norkus was down in the 9th.

1954-12-01 192½ Roland LaStarza 190 53-5-0
Arena, Cleveland, Ohio, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Jackie Davis 96-94 | judge: George Sherman 94-93 | judge: John Sayanek 96-94 ~

1954-10-06 193 Charlie Powell 212 11-0-1
Civic Auditorium, San Francisco, California, United States W TKO 7 10
~ time: 2:10 | referee: Frankie Carter | judge: Toby Irwin | judge: Eddie James ~
Norkus was down in the 1st, Powell was down in the 4th and three times in the 7th.

1954-09-03 196¾ Cesar Brion 201¾ 42-9-0
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States W SD 10 10
~ referee: Harry Kessler | judge: Bert Grant | judge: Jack Gordon ~
Referee Kessler had Brion winning 5-4-1 but Judges Grant, 6-4 and Gordon 5-5 (6-5 on points) had it for Norkus.

1954-05-28 194 Tommy Jackson 192½ 15-2-1
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States L TKO 5 10
~ time: 2:29 | referee: Al Berl ~

1954-03-24 197¼ Danny Nardico 180¼ 49-11-4
Auditorium, Miami Beach, Florida, United States W UD 10 10
~ referee: Jimmy Peerless 98-96 | judge: Morris Feingold 97-91 | judge: Stuart Winston 98-91 ~

1954-01-20 197 Danny Nardico 181½ 49-10-4
Auditorium, Miami Beach, Florida, United States W TKO 9 10
~ time: 2:15 | referee: Jimmy Peerless ~
This fight was a thriller, with eight knockdowns.

1953-12-09 195 Hal Boylston 184 16-1-1
Arena, Cleveland, Ohio, United States W TKO 2 8
~ referee: Vito Masseo ~

1953-12-04 194½ Ray Wilding 197½ 40-4-3
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States W KO 2 8
~ time: 2:43 ~
Norkus was a last minute substitute for Jimmy Di Lenge. He took the bout on a 1 day notice.

1953-10-29 197 Matt Daniels 185 6-15-0
Laurel Garden, Newark, New Jersey, United States W PTS 8 8
~ referee: Joe Kukal ~
Referee Joe Kukal scored it 7-0-1 for Norkus

1953-08-06 194 Ike Thomas 184 1-4-0
Meadowbrook Bowl, Newark, New Jersey, United States L TKO 8 8
~ referee: Joey Harrison ~
"Norkus could not come out for the eighth round due to cuts over his left eye and a broken nose. (He) got off to an early lead, but took a beating in the sixth and seventh." (The Ring, November 1953, page 59.

1953-07-02 193 Ernie Sheppard 192 10-7-0
Meadowbrook Bowl, Newark, New Jersey, United States W PTS 8 8
~ referee: Mike Antonelli ~

1952-10-20 191¾ Tommy Harrison 177 15-6-1
Rhode Island Auditorium, Providence, Rhode Island, United States L SD 10 10
~ referee: Sharkey Buonanno | judge: Eddie Jansen | judge: Dick Cotter ~
Harrison was down in the 9th. Harrison was a substitute for Roland LaStarza who pulled out with an injury. Referee Buonanno voted for Norkus, with judges Jansen and Cotter gave Harrison the edge.

1952-07-28 195 Dave Davey 204 31-3-2
Yankee Stadium, Bronx, New York, United States L PTS 5 5
1951-12-21 190 James J Parker 194 14-2-2
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States L KO 5 8
~ time: 1:46 ~

1951-11-23 189 Lalu Sabotin 174½ 18-2-0
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States L PTS 8 8
1951-11-09 191½ Keene Simmons 208 8-13-1
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States W PTS 8 8
1951-10-09 192 Cesar Bolin 202 2-2-2
Laurel Garden, Newark, New Jersey, United States W KO 7 8
1950-11-16 195½ Duilio Spagnolo 184½ 19-8-4
Eastern Parkway Arena, Brooklyn, New York, United States L SD 8 8
Norkus was returning to the ring after a layoff which included an operation for appendicitis.

1950-05-24 189½ Cesar Brion 194½ 24-3-0
St. Nicholas Arena, New York, New York, United States L TKO 4 10
Bout stopped because of a severe cut over Norkus's left eye. He suffered an 8-count knockdown in the third round and had been beaten soundly by Brion up to the point of the stoppage.

1950-04-05 190½ Curt Kennedy 191 23-3-1
St. Nicholas Arena, New York, New York, United States W KO 1 8
~ time: 1:54 ~

1950-02-17 189 Curt Kennedy 190 21-3-1
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States L PTS 8 8
1949-12-28 194½ Sonny Parisi 193 8-0-0
St. Nicholas Arena, New York, New York, United States W TKO 5 8
~ time: 2:24 | referee: Jack Appell ~
Parisi was knocked down six times

1949-12-16 191½ Eddie Davis 212½ 1-9-0
Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, United States W PTS 4 4
1949-11-23 191½ Ricky Ronci 186 19-5-1
St. Nicholas Arena, New York, New York, United States W UD 8 8
~ referee: Fred Fullum ~

1949-10-24 193 George Washington 192½ 8-15-0
Jersey City Gardens, Jersey City, New Jersey, United States W KO 3 6
~ time: 1:06 | referee: Joe Walker ~
Washington was down 3 times in the 2nd round and once in the 3rd.

1949-10-05 192¾ Buddy Moore 198½ 14-10-2
St. Nicholas Arena, New York, New York, United States W KO 1 6
~ time: 1:36 ~

1949-08-29 183 Clifton Murphy 187 0-3-0
Meadowbrook Bowl, Newark, New Jersey, United States W KO 3 5
~ time: 2:11 | referee: Paul Cavalier ~

1949-08-10 188¾ Tommy DiGiorgio 182¼ 9-6-0
Yankee Stadium, Bronx, New York, United States W KO 4 4
~ time: 2:26 ~

1949-07-25 185 Jack LaBoard 173 1-1-0
Meadowbrook Bowl, Newark, New Jersey, United States W TKO 2 5
~ time: 2:21 | referee: Mike Antonelli ~

1949-06-28 189 Jimmy Walls 190 10-16-1
Veterans' Stadium, Bayonne, New Jersey, United States W PTS 6 6
~ referee: Harry Kaplan ~

1949-05-16 191¾ Johnny Pretzie 192 9-7-0
Laurel Garden, Newark, New Jersey, United States W TKO 6 6
~ referee: Gene Roman ~

1949-04-18 190 George Washington 195 4-14-0
Jersey City Gardens, Jersey City, New Jersey, United States L TKO 4 6
~ referee: Paul Cavalier ~
Norkus floored Washington twice in the third round but was not allowed to answer the bell for round four because of a badly cut eye.

1949-03-23 190 Eddie Blair 182
Jersey City Gardens, Jersey City, New Jersey, United States W KO 1 6
~ referee: Joe Kukal ~

1949-03-09 190 Howard Berger 215 9-15-0
Jersey City Gardens, Jersey City, New Jersey, United States W KO 1 6
~ time: 1:44 ~
Berger down 4 times

1949-02-02 186 Jimmy Hill 190 6-7-0
Jersey City Gardens, Jersey City, New Jersey, United States W PTS 6 6
1949-01-26 210 Eddie Brown 188 1-2-0
Jersey City Gardens, Jersey City, New Jersey, United States W KO 2 6
Brown was knocked down five times.

1948-12-07 194 Jimmy Walls 190 4-10-1
Jersey City Gardens, Jersey City, New Jersey, United States L PTS 5 5
1948-11-30 188 Jimmy Walls 193 3-10-1
Jersey City Gardens, Jersey City, New Jersey, United States L PTS 5 5

[bennie]

The day will dawn for Britain's WBA heavyweight king David Haye as he seeks a showdown with two Ukrainian boxing giants by the name of Klitschko for the mantle of undisputed heavyweight champion of the world. Annoyingly, firstly, came a boxing minnow by the name of John Ruiz, an American of Puerto Rican descent who held the mandatory position but went down four times in nine bloody, one-sided rounds earlier this month in front of 20,000 adoring Haye fans in Manchester. If Tex Cobb took credit for retiring Howard Cosell, Haye takes credit for retiring Ruiz. The Quiet Man says he wants to get the kids off the streets and into the gym in Worcester, Massachusetts.
As for the muscled, powerful, swashbuckling Haye, the former undisputed cruiserweight champion of the world is now ready to perform a similar cleansing exercise in a moribund heavyweight division at the age of 29, a good age for a heavyweight, a fresh age. Haye breathes new life into the division after just three fights there (forget the Tomasz Bonin trial, if you will.) He won his WBA title in November with a 12-round decision over Nikolai Valuev in Germany, wobbling the gigantic Russian in the last with a cracking left hook, and before that put America's Monte Barrett down five times on the way to a spectacular stoppage in London. Then came that triumph over the horribly awkward if incredibly gutsy Mr Ruiz.
At 24-1 (22), Haye's one defeat, to cruiserweight Carl Thompson in five rounds in September 2004 at Wembley, proved a victory in disguise for the Bermondsey Bomber who has improved beyond all measure since and knows precisely when to unload on a tiring opponent, after punching himself out against the iron-jawed Thompson, one Hayemaker after another. Haye has won 14 on the spin since - 12 of them early. He brings excitement as well as a touch of vulnerability to his new heavyweight campaign. He also brings a smile and real charisma, although he himself fails to take himself too seriously. Women must be there but he loves boxing. If women weaken legs, his priorities are right - those Klitschkos.
Haye holds all the belts if he topples Wladimir and Vitali, both much bigger and heavier than the Londoner, true, but older and with more mileage. Two wins… Before he destructs and destroys like an an old Philly-killer, Haye just needs a Klitschko to sign a contract.

[bennie]

McGuire gave Greg Haugen a great tune-up prior to arguably Haugen's best-ever performance: his 15-round trouncing of Vinny Paz in Atlantic City in 1988. Southpaw Fabri came over to London in 1989, with Boza-Edwards in his corner, and was robbed against 'house' fighter Sean Murphy.

Didn't Fabri have red hair? or am I thinking of somebody else....

Yes, he did, Frankie. He looked a bit like Chuck Davey, and was also a southpaw.

[raylawpc]

I don't know of any boxing museum in Calif.

There is a small exhibit commemorating Jim Jeffries at the Burbank Historical Society.

I live close to Burbank. I'll check it out sometime and see what they've got.

Not much . . . a mannequin dressed up like Jeffries and some pictures. The historical society is only open a couple of days a week, so call before you drive over there.

[Randyman]

Sugar Shane Mosley vs Floyd "Money" Mayweather

Floyd Mayweather Jr. has been pretty vocal and critical about Shane Mosley’s comment ”It’s not about the money”. I look at it this way, when Mosley and Mayweather are in the trenches late in the fight and have to reach down deep inside to find the right stuff to keep going, one fighter may say “The hell with it, I got my money” and the other fighter will just keep reaching. One man is fighting for money the other for his place in boxing history, his legacy. There is no such thing as a sure thing but all things being equal I would bank on the a pure fighter with a big heart. In this case that would be Mosley.

I think Mayweather will be in for a shock on Saturday. He’s banking on Mosley’s age being a factor. In fact he’s counting on it or he wouldn‘t have taken the fight. Mosley, who could have been a champ in any era, still has a couple of great fights left in him. When it comes to speed, Mosley is right there with Mayweather. The same with boxing ability. When it comes to power Mosley has a big edge. However, the difference between the two is not what you can see on the outside, it’s what’s inside of them that will separate the two when they step into the ring at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas this weekend.

To be fair, Mayweather has a lot of talent and has beaten some pretty good guys. He stopped the late Diego Corrales in ten after knocking him down five times. He beat Jose Luis Castillo twice, though most fans and expert alike thought Castillo should have been given the nod. He beat him convincingly in the second fight. He stopped crafty Genaro Hernandez in eight rounds, and Arturo Gotti in six. He has wins over Ricky Hatton, Oscar De la Hoya and Juan Manuel Marquez. Hatton was stopped in the second round. Mayweather has yet to lose a fight. Still, unless your name is Rocky Marciano, there comes a time in every fighter’s career when he is ripe for a loss. I think this is the time. When Mayweather steps into the ring at the Grand he will be facing his Waterloo.

Mosley is not undefeated, he has lost to both the late Vernon Forrest and Winky Wright, twice by decision to each fighter in very hard fights but the fact that he fought a rematch with both says a lot about what Mosley has inside. He also lost to Miguel Cotto in a grueling fight in 2007. However he beat the man that beat Cotto, Antonio Margarito, in devastating fashion to win the WBA Super Welterweight title, as well as a spot in the pound for pound rankings. Because he has lost, he knows what it feels like and won’t let it happen again. Sometimes a man, a fighter, has something to prove. Not just to the world but to himself. It’s not about the money.

It’s no secret to anyone that knows me that Mosley is my kind of fighter. He’s a throwback fighter with a huge heart and would have fit in nicely in boxing’s last great era, the 1980’s, or any of boxing’s great eras where even contenders were great. Mosley is a West Coast fighter and will always get my support. My hope for Saturday night is that Mosley reaches back in time and stops Mayweather in the late rounds. Then it’s Mosley vs. Manny Pacquiao.

All that being said, let the best man win. That’s what boxing is all about.


Sugar Shane Mosley and Floyd Mayweather Jr. will fight Saturday night, May 1st, at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. The fight will be shown on HBO PPV.

[Randyman]

Sorry I haven't been on the thread lately guys. I have had a lot on my plate lately but I'm still here with you!!

Randy

[raylawpc]

Sorry I haven't been on the thread lately guys. I have had a lot on my plate lately but I'm still here with you!!

Randy

How's your Mom doing, Randy?

[CNorkusJr]

Rick Ferris- Thank You for your kind words and posting my fathers record.
Sorry about the Boxing Museums status out there, but its the same everywhere. I do remember a small one in San Francisco at the old Civic Auditorium downtown. No one seems to remember it. Maybe it was just a short time exhibition that the city was having that summer. I dont remember who sponsored it.

There are few of virtual boxing Hall of Fames in the country. My dad was inducted into the New Jersey Boxing Hall of Fame that Henry Hascup presides over. There is no building, but a great membership nontheless.
The monthly meetings are fun and you never know who shows up. Connecticut has a HOF organization too. Ring 8 in NY still exists as well as Ring 1 in Philly, who is presently getting ready to uncloak its Joey Giardello statue in Sept or Oct there.Lots of names still stop by.

As far as my fathers career goes, I posted a thread (a few pages now) called "Charley Norkus, photos of friends and foes" which for anybody who hasnt visited it yet, might enjoy the 1950's boxing scene. It probably on page two of this "boxers of the past" forum. Enjoy.

[Randyman]

Rick Ferris- Thank You for your kind words and posting my fathers record.
Sorry about the Boxing Museums status out there, but its the same everywhere. I do remember a small one in San Francisco at the old Civic Auditorium downtown. No one seems to remember it. Maybe it was just a short time exhibition that the city was having that summer. I dont remember who sponsored it.

There are few of virtual boxing Hall of Fames in the country. My dad was inducted into the New Jersey Boxing Hall of Fame that Henry Hascup presides over. There is no building, but a great membership nontheless.
The monthly meetings are fun and you never know who shows up. Connecticut has a HOF organization too. Ring 8 in NY still exists as well as Ring 1 in Philly, who is presently getting ready to uncloak its Joey Giardello statue in Sept or Oct there.Lots of names still stop by.

As far as my fathers career goes, I posted a thread (a few pages now) called "Charley Norkus, photos of friends and foes" which for anybody who hasnt visited it yet, might enjoy the 1950's boxing scene. It probably on page two of this "boxers of the past" forum. Enjoy.

There is a Boxing Museum in San Bernardino, California that opened up a few years ago.

Here's a couple of links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WBC_Legend ... ing_Museum

http://www.pe.com/localnews/sanbernardi ... 59ec5.html

Randy

[Randyman]

Here's another link to the Boxing Museum. This one has a short video.
http://www.instantriverside.com/?p=5404

Maybe one day we can all make a "West Coast Boxing" pilgrimage to the museum.

Randy

[Expug]

Anybody here anything from Roger?
Its been way too long.

[kikibalt]

Who is going to win tonight??

[Randyman]

Who is going to win tonight??

Well, I gave my opinion a few post back. It will be Mosley.

Randy

[Randyman]

Sorry I haven't been on the thread lately guys. I have had a lot on my plate lately but I'm still here with you!!

Randy

How's your Mom doing, Randy?

Thanks for asking Tom. She's doing good. She's slowing down a bit but she's doing good. Tomorrow, May 2 is her 81st birthday. We'll be getting together at my daughters house for dinner, cake & ice cream.

Randy

[kikibalt]

Sorry I haven't been on the thread lately guys. I have had a lot on my plate lately but I'm still here with you!!

Randy

How's your Mom doing, Randy?

Thanks for asking Tom. She's doing good. She's slowing down a bit but she's doing good. Tomorrow, May 2 is her 81st birthday. We'll be getting together at my daughters house for dinner, cake & ice cream.

Randy

Happy birthday to your Mom Randy....

[THEHAMMER321]

Good morning everyone I was out after midnight to have dinner with some friends, it seemed to be unusually busy as we had to wait in line for about 15 minutes, I spoke to a few people in line and they said they were here for the fight tonight that was at the South Point hotel about a ten minute drive to the MGM where the fight will be, I won't be watching it but hope Mosley wins.

[kikibalt]

Who is going to win tonight??

Well, I gave my opinion a few post back. It will be Mosley.

Randy

My heart is with Shane, but my mind tells me Floyd.....

[THEHAMMER321]

I was looking up Bobby Valdez record as I heard Rick mention his fight with Dwight Hawkins, I notice he did good in his fights with''Gato'' Gonzalez, also he had a very short career anybody know much about him

[Randyman]

How's your Mom doing, Randy?

Thanks for asking Tom. She's doing good. She's slowing down a bit but she's doing good. Tomorrow, May 2 is her 81st birthday. We'll be getting together at my daughters house for dinner, cake & ice cream.

Randy

Happy birthday to your Mom Randy....

Thank you Frank.

[Randyman]

Who is going to win tonight??

Well, I gave my opinion a few post back. It will be Mosley.

Randy

My heart is with Shane, but my mind tells me Floyd.....

Yeah, I hear you. Going with my heart has cost me a bundle in the past. That's why I don't bet any more than the cost of a lunch anymore. Still I think Mosley is going to pull this one off. I just can't tell if it's my mind or my heart that's making that statement. Hopefully both. Whoever wins though, I hope it's a great fight.

Randy

[THEHAMMER321]

Welcome back Randy and Happy birthday to your mom

[Randyman]

But back to Hammer's original post . . .

Separated at birth?



Hmmm . . .

That's funny. I have always thought they looked alike. I thought it was just me.

Randy

[Randyman]

"Jerry Quarry-lookalike" Glen Campbell



Did he look kinda like this, Rick?

Jeez, what a mess!

Randy