So, who wins Floyd vs Pacman now??

[Shirow]

Should i have said unprecedented in the sport of boxing? He should make that request to the boxing commission. Should only boxers fighting Floyd have to undertake "proper drug testing"?

Nutrional supplement control seem to be the next logical step. If Floyd gets to make the rules he can mandate whatever he likes can't he?

[Coco]

Should i have said unprecedented in the sport of boxing? He should make that request to the boxing commission. Should only boxers fighting Floyd have to undertake "proper drug testing"?

Nutrional supplement control seem to be the next logical step. If Floyd gets to make the rules he can mandate whatever he likes can't he?

I think it's about time boxing was brought into the 21st century in terms of drug testing
You can't think his requests are unreasonable? What is unreasonable is Pac refusing to take the test because he is so scared of needles!!!

[Shirow]

I agree with strict drug testing in boxing but Mayweather should have taken his campaign to the commission and shamed them into changing. He has the pull, he could say he wouldn't fight in Nevada unless they did something. The MGM Mirage group would lean on them hard too.

My point is that because Mayweather went about it the wrong way Pacquiao can't be forced to comply which means the fight may never happen. It's always going to get backs up when a boxer makes demands which are unneccessary when fighting any other boxer in the world.

If Pacquiao couldn't fight in the US unless he agreed to blood tests he'd book himself some hypnotherapy quick fast.

[Carbo]

OK, well, this may sound strange, but Mayweather went up in my estimations last night -- that is, he has even more to his armoury than I thought before last night -- but at the same time, I feel more confident that Pacquiao could beat him.

Let me explain. As I have said in a previous thread, I can now say with confidence that Floyd has a certifiable solid chin. What was impressive was that (1) He took those punches as well as anyone could have and (2) Floyd knows how to deal with being hurt: he handled the situation brilliantly -- a textbook case of how to handle being hurt, really; kind of an anti-Frank Bruno.

I don't think we should get carried away with that, because Shane has always wore people down rather than banged them out at the elite 147 level, and let's not forget that Margarito took three or four punches like that every round for 10 rounds before succumbing, but we can say that Floyd has a set of whiskers, and that he knows how to deal with being hurt very, very well, and that that's going to make it even harder for anyone to get him out: his defences are hardly pierced and when they are, he can take a shot, and even when he's hurt, he's very, very difficult to get out there, because he knows exactly what to do, it seems.

So why on earth am I now more confident that Pacquiao can win, given that Floyd has in my eyes added yet another piece to what was probably already the best game on the planet?

Well, the other thing I know is that Floyd can be got at. Judah is extraordinarily fast in the early rounds, faster than Mosley and Pacquiao for sure (it's just that he doesn't carry that speed beyond the third or fourth). Him troubling Mayweather in the first four might have therefore been a freak occurrence. But now I have confirmation that speed+power can bother Mayweather. And, as I said, Judah never carries that on much past the fourth, as seen in numerous fights in the past, and Mosley, as a semi-retired 38 year old, didn't have anything left beyond the big effort in the second, it seemed to me. I also think that Mosley always, for some reason, struggles to get off against men with fast straight punches. He seemed very subdued against DLH in the second fight, as if he just couldn't get off. Same against Forrest, and against Wright.

Pacquiao, on the other hand, has that speed an power, and will almost certainly be able to carry it on, and on and on. And at this stage in his career, I think he hits as fast, and, given the evidence of his recent fights, probably hits even harder, than Shane. Plus, he's a southpaw. So, what would happen, I wonder, if Mayweather's found in the way Mosley found him in the second in quite a few of the other rounds, too? And being hit more concussively, by a more energetic man? And that goes on and on? Mayweather knew how to ride out the storm in the second, but he did it by smothering the fight and giving up the round. He'd have to fire back eventually, which is what Cotto did when he got utterly blasted and what Hatton did when he got comatosed.

Of course, there's always the chance that Mayweather would just make adjustments and find the winning formula. That's perfectly plausible given his awesome gifts. It's also plausible that Mayweather's dazzling right cross (which I'm coming to consider the best right cross I've ever seen) would just keep Pacquaio off balance and at range.

But I now think that Mayweather can be found and hurt at elite level by a man with speed and power, and that he just hasn't fought anyone who could sustain that push.

He will in Pacquaio. And that's why I see it as being very much like Pacquaio-Marquez II -- a controversial, brilliant, high quality fight that ebbs and flows in which Mayweather is rocked and dropped on more than one occasion, but keeps Pacquaio at bay for long stretches, too.

Just my probably not-so-humble take

[Mensa07]

Mayweather will stop Pacman IMO. Pac's not elusive enough and will eat counter after counter until he's just busted up.

[ArtOfWar]

Carbo makes some good points and I will add in the workrate factor. I'll reserve judgement on the actual outcome of a possible fight between the two, but Pacquiao's punch output must be noted. We always talk about styles make fights and not getting carried away after one performance, yet that always goes out the window in the early hours of a Sunday morning.

Fact is Mosley's approach to the fight was a whole lot different than Pacquiao's will be. Mosley tried to think with a thinker and low and behold got totally outboxed/outsmarted. Pacquiao is a lot more instinctive, and will throw many more punches than Mosley did. We've seen before that simply workrate can trouble Mayweather with Castillo. It may in fact turn out to be a negative for Pacquiao, because he may leave himself open for Mayweather's counters. I tend to believe it's an advantage though, because Mayweather never punches with his opponants and tends to cover up when punches in bunches are thrown his way.

Pacquiao's energetic approach and simple mindset combined with the technical skills Freddie Roach has taught him makes me think a fight between the two will be very interesting. There are a lot of different variables to consider for both men and it's no good creaming in your pants the morning after Mayweather has fought.

The most important thing is that they both actually sign the damn contract, because I don't se any other fight that is nearly as compelling for either man.

[Deserter]

The problem I've got is that after watching last night's performance I just can't see how Pacman could maintain a high punch output as Mayweather seems so strong on the counter - it's human nature to become tentative in throwing if every time you do you're getting nailed with stinging counters.

Two other observations to throw into the mix:
1) While Mayweather is never going to be a big puncher, he seems to be hitting with more spite than I've ever seen and his shots certainly seem stiff enough to force other welters to think twice about trying to walk him down.

2) Castillo is constantly brought up as the blueprint for exploiting Mayweather's perceived weakness, but that fight is bordering on irrelevant now given how long ago it was. Mayweather's a different fighter now. It's like talking about how Margarito's style is the blueprint for beating Martinez - it doesn't recognise the fact that Martinez has evolved as a fighter massively since his loss to Margarito back in the day.

[ArtOfWar]

The problem I've got is that after watching last night's performance I just can't see how Pacman could maintain a high punch output as Mayweather seems so strong on the counter - it's human nature to become tentative in throwing if every time you do you're getting nailed with stinging counters.

Two other observations to throw into the mix:
1) While Mayweather is never going to be a big puncher, he seems to be hitting with more spite than I've ever seen and his shots certainly seem stiff enough to force other welters to think twice about trying to walk him down.

2) Castillo is constantly brought up as the blueprint for exploiting Mayweather's perceived weakness, but that fight is bordering on irrelevant now given how long ago it was. Mayweather's a different fighter now. It's like talking about how Margarito's style is the blueprint for beating Martinez - it doesn't recognise the fact that Martinez has evolved as a fighter massively since his loss to Margarito back in the day.

Valid points and this is really why the fight needs to happen. We're all trying to figure out in our minds what will happen, but it's tough to really say. The thing with Mayweather's counters is they only ever come after single shots have been thrown. You watch any of his fights and if he see's that second punch coming, he goes straight into defensive mode. That fact coupled with Pacquiao's side to side move (which is awesome) gives you something to think about when weighing up what will happen.

I have to see this fight. A victory for either one of them and you really have to start to look at them being right near the top of the all-time p4p list, even if it is just something mythical for fans to argue over. The body of work of the both of these fighters makes this fight even more important for the sport. Most superfights nowadays are promoted at us, but this is one we all really want.

[hazzo123]

you may think im nuts but i believe it will be a fairly easy fight for manny . shane had him hurt and he is 38 and been past his best for a long time . i think manny will hurt mayweather early on and if he doesnt finish him he will win a convincing points decision.

[MightyWarrior]

Pacman knows PBF has his number, thats why he backed out of the last meet on the pretence of being scared of needles

That's a unique take. Most people seem to think if you impose unprecedented conditions that the commission doesn't require that's it's you who are trying to back out.

For Manny to back out over "principles", and lose a purse of around 40 million, just looks completely wrong.

He's a PRIZE fighter, and reckons himself the best in the world, but turns down the ultimate prize?

He's been my favorite fighter of the last few years, just an amazing performer, but to me he's definitely running scared of something now, and it isn't the needles.

[ArtOfWar]

Pacman knows PBF has his number, thats why he backed out of the last meet on the pretence of being scared of needles

That's a unique take. Most people seem to think if you impose unprecedented conditions that the commission doesn't require that's it's you who are trying to back out.

For Manny to back out over "principles", and lose a purse of around 40 million, just looks completely wrong.

He's a PRIZE fighter, and reckons himself the best in the world, but turns down the ultimate prize?

He's been my favorite fighter of the last few years, just an amazing performer, but to me he's definitely running scared of something now, and it isn't the needles.

I think what it comes down to is being dictated to by a possible opponant. If I was Manny I would be annoyed at Floyd telling what I have to do for a fight. It should be the commission doing this sort of thing, but they are useless. This is where the problems lie in my opinion. Pacquiao has run the gauntlet over the last few years, so you can't start accusing him of being afraid to fight someone.

[Kilburn]

I slightly lean towards Mayweather, as I did before last nights fight. But I agree with those who believe Pac would have stopped Mosley.

A masterclass from Mayweather it might have been - and I'm sure Floyd could have made it even easier if he'd used his legs - but Mosley clearly started to weaken after only 2 rounds. Pacquiao is still warming up at that stage.

Mayweather v Pacquiao is a massive showdown when it happens. Both fighters have to contend with a challenge the likes of which neither has had to conquer to date.

[bfchunk]

OK, well, this may sound strange, but Mayweather went up in my estimations last night -- that is, he has even more to his armoury than I thought before last night -- but at the same time, I feel more confident that Pacquiao could beat him.

Let me explain. As I have said in a previous thread, I can now say with confidence that Floyd has a certifiable solid chin. What was impressive was that (1) He took those punches as well as anyone could have and (2) Floyd knows how to deal with being hurt: he handled the situation brilliantly -- a textbook case of how to handle being hurt, really; kind of an anti-Frank Bruno.

I don't think we should get carried away with that, because Shane has always wore people down rather than banged them out at the elite 147 level, and let's not forget that Margarito took three or four punches like that every round for 10 rounds before succumbing, but we can say that Floyd has a set of whiskers, and that he knows how to deal with being hurt very, very well, and that that's going to make it even harder for anyone to get him out: his defences are hardly pierced and when they are, he can take a shot, and even when he's hurt, he's very, very difficult to get out there, because he knows exactly what to do, it seems.

So why on earth am I now more confident that Pacquiao can win, given that Floyd has in my eyes added yet another piece to what was probably already the best game on the planet?

Well, the other thing I know is that Floyd can be got at. Judah is extraordinarily fast in the early rounds, faster than Mosley and Pacquiao for sure (it's just that he doesn't carry that speed beyond the third or fourth). Him troubling Mayweather in the first four might have therefore been a freak occurrence. But now I have confirmation that speed+power can bother Mayweather. And, as I said, Judah never carries that on much past the fourth, as seen in numerous fights in the past, and Mosley, as a semi-retired 38 year old, didn't have anything left beyond the big effort in the second, it seemed to me. I also think that Mosley always, for some reason, struggles to get off against men with fast straight punches. He seemed very subdued against DLH in the second fight, as if he just couldn't get off. Same against Forrest, and against Wright.

Pacquiao, on the other hand, has that speed an power, and will almost certainly be able to carry it on, and on and on. And at this stage in his career, I think he hits as fast, and, given the evidence of his recent fights, probably hits even harder, than Shane. Plus, he's a southpaw. So, what would happen, I wonder, if Mayweather's found in the way Mosley found him in the second in quite a few of the other rounds, too? And being hit more concussively, by a more energetic man? And that goes on and on? Mayweather knew how to ride out the storm in the second, but he did it by smothering the fight and giving up the round. He'd have to fire back eventually, which is what Cotto did when he got utterly blasted and what Hatton did when he got comatosed.

Of course, there's always the chance that Mayweather would just make adjustments and find the winning formula. That's perfectly plausible given his awesome gifts. It's also plausible that Mayweather's dazzling right cross (which I'm coming to consider the best right cross I've ever seen) would just keep Pacquaio off balance and at range.

But I now think that Mayweather can be found and hurt at elite level by a man with speed and power, and that he just hasn't fought anyone who could sustain that push.

He will in Pacquaio. And that's why I see it as being very much like Pacquaio-Marquez II -- a controversial, brilliant, high quality fight that ebbs and flows in which Mayweather is rocked and dropped on more than one occasion, but keeps Pacquaio at bay for long stretches, too.

Just my probably not-so-humble take

Great assessment. I agree and could have not have put it better myself.

[jBacca]

From reading these posts, it appears I may be the black sheep in my thinking that Pacman will punish PBF.

As impressive as Floyd may have looked against Sugar Shane, I thought this was mainly due to the latter gassing after his second round blow out.

It was in that second round that we saw Floyd rocked, which has made me think Pacquiao has a great chance.

Will Pacman get to Mayweather like SSM? I believe so.
Will Pacquiao start blowing out of his arse after two rounds? No, no chance.

PBF responded well to being staggered, but I really believe the current Pacquiao will be a lot less remorseful than the 38 year old, rusty Mosley.

[Mensa07]

Most people seem to think if you impose unprecedented conditions that the commission doesn't require that's it's you who are trying to back out.

lol 'unprecented conditions'. It's not like he was asking him to wear a tutu, he was just asking him to take a test. Pac refused, looks guilty, and his rep is tarnished until he takes the test. sorry, thats how it is.

[richie77]

i think manny will break floyds heart.pacman will take everything floyd has and walk through it.manny has speed and power over 12 rounds and stilll has something extra in the tank.

[Autobarn]

have you heard th e stuff that pac comes out with?

is he supposed to sound like an uneducated peasant?

he doesn't want to give blood close to the day of the fight as it'll weaken him - given that pac is small and mayweather is big.

priceless.

[winkveron]

Let's get real here, think about principles. Whether or not Manny (I don't think he is!) is taking something, you have to admit if you were in his shoes why would you let Floyd dictate the terms for the tests which ARE NOT in line with the sports ruling bodies then why would you? Considering at the time of the negotiations Manny was the bigger draw. Yes, we all want to see a clean sport but it should be the commissions, NOT Floyd who decide what is the correct method for testing.

[Bomber 1]

Pac Man can't deal with counter punchers, The Marquez fights showed this, He needs fighters who meet him head on it's that simple, In Mayweather he'll be meeting someone even quicker than himself and someone who is physically stronger than him too, Hatton has boxed both and is under the impression that Mayweather takes this all day long. Not that it counts for much but for me Mayweather looks sensational in stopping Pac Man in the championship rounds... I feel Mayweather is the best fighter I've ever seen in my lifetime anyway..

[DIRT SUGAR]

It will be interesting to see if Pacquaio can take Mayweather out of his comfort zone. If he can, he's in the fight. Marquez too small, Mosley too old to make him fight and once he got the measure of them it was all over.

I think Manny can make it really hard for Mayweather and make him earn the victory by having to outfight as well as outbox him. Marquez and Mosley kind of entered into silent contracts after their best spells in the fights and from then on how much they got punished all depended on how much they made Mayweather turn on the heat. That wouldn't happen against Pacman.

[winkveron]

Pac Man can't deal with counter punchers, The Marquez fights showed this, He needs fighters who meet him head on it's that simple, In Mayweather he'll be meeting someone even quicker than himself and someone who is physically stronger than him too, Hatton has boxed both and is under the impression that Mayweather takes this all day long. Not that it counts for much but for me Mayweather looks sensational in stopping Pac Man in the championship rounds... I feel Mayweather is the best fighter I've ever seen in my lifetime anyway..

Hatton also said that DLH & Cotto would both beat Pacman. Not to mention his prediction that he would 'have too much' for both Pacman & Floyd. As a boxing crystal ball the man is about as much use as a chocolate tea cosy!

[MightyWarrior]

That's a unique take. Most people seem to think if you impose unprecedented conditions that the commission doesn't require that's it's you who are trying to back out.

For Manny to back out over "principles", and lose a purse of around 40 million, just looks completely wrong.

He's a PRIZE fighter, and reckons himself the best in the world, but turns down the ultimate prize?

He's been my favorite fighter of the last few years, just an amazing performer, but to me he's definitely running scared of something now, and it isn't the needles.

you can't start accusing him of being afraid to fight someone.

I'm not, to be honest, though I do think Floyd would beat him.
Based on his career history there's NO WAY Manny Pac is afraid of anyone, which is just what makes the whole stand off so suspect.

[Shirow]

Most people seem to think if you impose unprecedented conditions that the commission doesn't require that's it's you who are trying to back out.

lol 'unprecented conditions'. It's not like he was asking him to wear a tutu, he was just asking him to take a test. Pac refused, looks guilty, and his rep is tarnished until he takes the test. sorry, thats how it is.

No need to apologise for your point of view. I agree with the view that at least 50% of this is about Pac refusing to bow down to Mayweather's demands. He turned down $40M at least in part to avoid having to say "yes Floyd, whatever you say Floyd" and unless the commission get involved i'm afraid he'll do it again.

have you heard th e stuff that pac comes out with?

is he supposed to sound like an uneducated peasant?

he doesn't want to give blood close to the day of the fight as it'll weaken him - given that pac is small and mayweather is big.

priceless.

Are you under the impression that Manny is not an uneducated peasant who just happens to have become of the best boxers on the planet? From reading about his history i'm not at all surprised by his 3rd world superstitions. I believe Roach when he says that they have trouble getting him to take vitamins as it's just not done and seems unnatural where he comes from.

[bad mamma jamma]

From reading these posts, it appears I may be the black sheep in my thinking that Pacman will punish PBF.

As impressive as Floyd may have looked against Sugar Shane, I thought this was mainly due to the latter gassing after his second round blow out.

It was in that second round that we saw Floyd rocked, which has made me think Pacquiao has a great chance.

Will Pacman get to Mayweather like SSM? I believe so.
Will Pacquiao start blowing out of his arse after two rounds? No, no chance.

PBF responded well to being staggered, but I really believe the current Pacquiao will be a lot less remorseful than the 38 year old, rusty Mosley.

true words..can't believe so many people were impressed by PBF last night..shane looked old man...Manny will overwhelm PBF...all PBF did last night was foookin hit then hold...i wasnt impressed, but will be if he beats somebody with a pulse

[liamlion]

From reading these posts, it appears I may be the black sheep in my thinking that Pacman will punish PBF.

As impressive as Floyd may have looked against Sugar Shane, I thought this was mainly due to the latter gassing after his second round blow out.

It was in that second round that we saw Floyd rocked, which has made me think Pacquiao has a great chance.

Will Pacman get to Mayweather like SSM? I believe so.
Will Pacquiao start blowing out of his arse after two rounds? No, no chance.

PBF responded well to being staggered, but I really believe the current Pacquiao will be a lot less remorseful than the 38 year old, rusty Mosley.

true words..can't believe so many people were impressed by PBF last night..shane looked old man...Manny will overwhelm PBF...all PBF did last night was foookin hit then hold...i wasnt impressed, but will be if he beats somebody with a pulse

Really?? I think we were watching different fights...