MachoMan09 wrote:
That's a different argument. If the rules of a sport dictate that performance enhancing drugs and blood doping are not permitted, they should be tested for properly and severe bans handed out to those caught. If, though, a sport says it does not test and will never test, competitors should be free to juice all day long.
Yes i agree with that 100%, boxing needs to decide whether it wants *wink, wink* rules or real rules.
The fact that people are defending Pacquiao and criticising Mayweather over this issue leads me to believe that a lot of boxing fans prefer the "don't ask, don't tell" option.
I think if it had've been anyone other than Mayweather, there'd have been a much smaller split between fans.
For example, if someone like Cotto had've insisted on testing, there's a good chance most would've sided with him, there probably would've been much less protest from Pacquiao in turn. Maybe Cotto's a bad example because of the sympathy already there over the Margarito fiasco.
Mayweather's character and motives are a pretty big factor in all of this.
Can there really be any arguement against Mayweather's reluctance to fight his biggest challengers over the past several years or so? For whatever reason, he's been doing some serious dodging, and those he does choose to fight he handicaps in some way or another.
Perhaps you are right in that if it had been Cotto there would have been a slightly smaller split between the fans/media, but then Cotto is not known for dodging oponents!
You only need to have a look at the heavyweight to see they're rided to the hilt. The lower weight fighters have proven to have used PEDs to with all the benefits - stamina, strength, speed.
Its a complete joke in boxing and the Mayweather argument is irrelavant to that. Boxing should have standard random tests like in athletics, it doesnt cost too much for a porper of a sport like athletics, which means boxing can afford it.
Will it happen? Ofcourse not, its blatantly the most corrupt of sports.
Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:I reckon they could probably afford to use some of the projected $170 million the Manny - Floyd fight will generate to have proper testing, but no, i forgot, Pacquiao is superstitious about having blood drawn when it doesnt fit in with his steroid cycle, umm, sorry i mean 24 days before a fight....
Easy to see which side of the fence you've choosen to sit on.
!
What side of the fence I've chosen to sit on?
I am doing no such thing, i am in fact pissing up against one side of the fence, shouting obscenities at passers by.
Last edited by Khaosai-Galaxy on 05 May 2010, 15:54, edited 1 time in total.
I think it sifhould be improved to as well, because they are probably alot of people who wondering if some fighters are actually juicing up or not and they are probably whispers that are probably spread within the community of whom might be doing what like you have in many sports a programme of regular testing by the governing bodies and the athletic commissions would help clean the image of the sport because there must be people out there who wonder if the sport we love is clean or not. And this does need to be addressed.
boxing's always been about one guy getting the advantage, about stacking the odds in one direction. i guess this is an extension of it. it's seldom about 2 evenly matched combatants.
pac will keep on dithering, even fighting in a state that don't test unless they feel the need to. provided he keeps on coming out with such comments as "i won't give blood just before the fight because mayweather is big i don't want to be weak", at least we'll be able to laugh it off.
clearly it can be a problem if a guy who's on something knows when the test is going to be and how to mask it. it does piss me off if a fighter whose fights i've really got into may have been juicing.
Autobarn wrote:it does piss me off if a fighter whose fights i've really got into may have been juicing.
Does it? at what point exactly do you become pissed off. Are you prone to high levels of suspision (noticing bulging veins, red eye's, blank stare, i really dont know, please tell) or is it when others begin accusations that you start to get pissed off?
Autobarn wrote:it does piss me off if a fighter whose fights i've really got into may have been juicing.
Does it? at what point exactly do you become pissed off. Are you prone to high levels of suspision (noticing bulging veins, red eye's, blank stare, i really dont know, please tell) or is it when others begin accusations that you start to get pissed off?
for instance, holyfield. as a teenager i stayed up all night to listen to some of his fights on the radio. i was happy for a full week after he beat tyson, even though my mum only gave me fish fingers and water for tea and even though i'd been sacked from my paper round for not pushing the newspapers all the way in. then years later holyfield's name is found on a mailing list for seling PED's. makes you wonder. did he juice? when did he, and when didn't he? did he have reason to, going up from cruiser to fight some giants?
There is nothing worse than IGNORANCE and unfortunately you are all guilty.All World,European,Commonwealth and British Titles and even final eliminators in Britain are dope tested by UK SPORT,EVERY SINGLE CONTEST WITHOUT FAIL.
If you have been using drugs in the last 4 weeks or so you will get caught the tests are that good.The only way to get past it would be to use someone else's clean urine and that would be difficult because the doping control officials actually look at your tackle as u piss in the pot.In europe you have to strip to your pants so that nothing can be concealed.
Ask this question, why all of a sudden is Mayweather switched on to blood testing?
If your urine is clean then your blood will also be clean in regards to Anabolic Steroids etc, your liver has metabolised the drugs ,your blood has been cleaned by your kidneys,your kidneys then flush out the waste product in urine and thats where the drug metabolites are found.The process of clearing these drugs from your system would take about 3-4 weeks and thats a gamble,many athletes take diuretics to "super flush " their system,diuretics leave the body much quicker 2-3 days and they are tested for too,but carry a much less penalty a heavy fine or 3-6 months suspension compared to 3 years for Anabolic Steroids.
The whole blood testing argument comes down to 2 things EPO and Growth Hormone,EPO increases Red Blood Cells or Hematocrit this allows the athlete to develop greater endurance,RBC will increase to 47/51 of blood volume normal being around 40 ish.
from WIKIPEDIA
" Professional athletes' hematocrit levels are measured as part of tests for blood doping or Erythropoietin (EPO) use; the level of hematocrit in a blood sample is compared with the long-term level for that athlete (to allow for individual variations in hematocrit level), and against an absolute permitted maximum (which is based on maximum expected levels within the population, and the hematocrit level which causes increased risk of blood clots resulting in strokes or heart attacks).
Anabolic Androgenic Steroid (AAS)use can also increase the amount of RBC's and therefore impact the hematocrit, particularly the compounds boldenone and oxymethelone.
If a patient is dehydrated, the hematocrit may be elevated. Repeat testing after adequate hydration therapy will usually result in a more reliable result."
EPO is a drug that stimulates the body to produce more RBC once injected it is in the body for 3 days approx if an athlete is urine tested in this 3 day period he will fail for EPO use.The drug will clear after this period but the effect is on going and the signal (epo) has been sent to the body to raise hematocrit.As boxing is very rarely subject to random testing a boxer can train for 12 weeks raise his hematocrit train hard and recover stop the drug 2 weeks before he fights but his RBC will still be high it takes about 4-6 weeks for RBC to go back to normal.Track and field athletes on the other hand find this much more difficult to get around due to random testing.
As for hGH Human Growth Hormone this is also difficult to detect and almost impossible if not impossible by urine and even blood testing,relying more on BIO MARKERS in the body such as high IGF levels but that is a whole new complicated story.
Mayweather demanding blood tests would seem to rule out the use of EPO to raise Hematocrit but lets say they agree to test blood, every friday, theorectically he could inject EPO on Sat and monday the drug would be cleared by friday the only tell tale sign would be raised hematocrit,but this could be explained by either various forms of altitude training or even an altitude chamber,all legitimate ways to raise hematocrit.
Injecting EPO is just a much easier way to raise Hematocrit,old methods were extract a pint of blood freeze it then allow the athlete to train and naturally replace the pint that was taken this would take 2-3 weeks,then 3 weeks before competition replace the stored blood intravenously back into the athlete.This would increase stamina etc.
De la Hoya ,Pacman,Mayweather,Mosley the superstars of the boxing game earning millions will all have access to people,Doctors ,clinics,nurses able to perform transfusions to increase RBC,dialysis to purify and clean the blood of offending drug metabolites.
So do not be suprised when two of boxings biggest superstars after whetting everyones appetite and hyping this fight so it becomes the biggest fight in Boxing history where they will make 5 times more than they are earning now agree to fight.
And it will be a superfight because no matter how difficult they make it for each other to take P.E.Ds they is always a way around it,always.
Pacman will eventually agree to blood testing but by the time he does I would imagine another "route " has been found.
I would like to add in MAYWEATHERS defence (although my own personal belief is that all top level athletes use P.E.Ds) that on a level playing field he would beat Pacman purely because of his skill level and I think that is why is saying "Hey Pacman lets do this the clean way" they stand to make multi millions but the there is room for only one in the Book of Boxing history and that would be the winner.
Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:It is indeed an absolute disgrace. The thing is, the governing bodies are for the main part an even bigger disgrace so it will be difficult to sort it out - but it really needs doing.
Completely agreed - and to add I completely agree with PBF and his stance on this issue.
