Oscar De La Hoya vs these lightweights

[elmersalsa]

I was watching some Oscar De La Hoya's fights at lightweight and he looked too fast, too strong and overmatch over his opponents like Jesse James Leija, Genaro Hernandez, John John Molina and Jorge "El Maromero" Paez. These four guys were good at jr lightweight and featherweight classes, but, were too small for the Golden Boy. I do not consider De La Hoya a great fighter, not in my top 100 greatest fighters p4p list, but what happened if he would've stayed at lightweight for at least 4 more years? Would he be in the class of the greatest lightweights ever and beat guys like Sugar Shane Mosley?

What if De La Hoya at 135lbs, had to fight these guys in their primes:
Hector "Macho" Camacho
Edwin "Chapo" Rosario
Esteban De Jesus
Rodolfo "El Gato" Gonzalez
Ishimatsu Suzuki
Mando Ramos
Ismael Laguna
Ken Buchanan
Jose Luis Ramirez
Aaron Pryor

Would he come up on top vs these excellent fighters? Who in your view Oscar beats in this list?

For me, it's too hard to tell. De La Hoya should have stayed at lightweight at least 2 to 4 years to see if he could have made a mark at that weight class.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I was watching some Oscar De La Hoya's fights at lightweight and he looked too fast, too strong and overmatch over his opponents like Jesse James Leija, Genaro Hernandez, John John Molina and Jorge "El Maromero" Paez. These four guys were good at jr lightweight and featherweight classes, but, were too small for the Golden Boy. I do not consider De La Hoya a great fighter, not in my top 100 greatest fighters p4p list, but what happened if he would've stayed at lightweight for at least 4 more years? Would he be in the class of the greatest lightweights ever and beat guys like Sugar Shane Mosley?

What if De La Hoya at 135lbs, had to fight these guys in their primes:
Hector "Macho" Camacho
Edwin "Chapo" Rosario
Esteban De Jesus
Rodolfo "El Gato" Gonzalez
Ishimatsu Suzuki
Mando Ramos
Ismael Laguna
Ken Buchanan
Jose Luis Ramirez
Aaron Pryor

Would he come up on top vs these excellent fighters? Who in your view Oscar beats in this list?

For me, it's too hard to tell. De La Hoya should have stayed at lightweight at least 2 to 4 years to see if he could have made a mark at that weight class.

You under-estimate how hard he was draining to make the weight.

[Diamond WEAPON]

I was watching some Oscar De La Hoya's fights at lightweight and he looked too fast, too strong and overmatch over his opponents like Jesse James Leija, Genaro Hernandez, John John Molina and Jorge "El Maromero" Paez. These four guys were good at jr lightweight and featherweight classes, but, were too small for the Golden Boy. I do not consider De La Hoya a great fighter, not in my top 100 greatest fighters p4p list, but what happened if he would've stayed at lightweight for at least 4 more years? Would he be in the class of the greatest lightweights ever and beat guys like Sugar Shane Mosley?

What if De La Hoya at 135lbs, had to fight these guys in their primes:
Hector "Macho" Camacho
Edwin "Chapo" Rosario
Esteban De Jesus
Rodolfo "El Gato" Gonzalez
Ishimatsu Suzuki
Mando Ramos
Ismael Laguna
Ken Buchanan
Jose Luis Ramirez
Aaron Pryor

Would he come up on top vs these excellent fighters? Who in your view Oscar beats in this list?

For me, it's too hard to tell. De La Hoya should have stayed at lightweight at least 2 to 4 years to see if he could have made a mark at that weight class.

You under-estimate how hard he was draining to make the weight.

Exactly, very rarely do fighters move up weight classes "just because", many drain to extreme lengths to fight the smallest opponents possible for any kind of size/strength advantage available. De La Hoya was still physically maturing in his first few years as a pro and so he was forced out of 130, 135, and 140 by necessity due to the fact that continuing to drain that low with his ever-increasing mass would be detrimental to his health, something he should've realized before draining to 150 then 147 for Forbes and Pacquiao.

[Goodnight, Irene]

He states in his bio the reason for draining to extreme for 130 & 135 was to pursue his dream of winning six titles (130-160).

Whatever people think of him, they have to admire one thing of De La Hoya's --- his courage & desire.

[elmersalsa]

Not a great fighter in my view. He was pretty good and nothing to be awed about.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Not a great fighter in my view. He was pretty good and nothing to be awed about.

Better than Chavez, peak-for-peak.

[Bricks]

He was a fighter of the highest calibre on his way up in the 90's. Like happens so often with guys who dethrone great fighters slightly on their way down after lengthy reigns or winning ways (eg McGuigan V Pedroza, Norris V SRL) the victorious fighter gets overrated and people start saying he could beat such and such in his peak. It happened with Tyson. In the late 80's many seasoned observers like jerry izenberg and herbert goldman were calling Tyson one of the 3-4 greatest HW's of all time!

So i feel De La Hoya in the ring, was overrated a little in the 90's as he beat the ageing Chavez, Whitakker and got a close disputed one against Quartey.

But as his career went on and he lost fights many people felt he won , such as Trinidad and Mosley II and Mayweather. I think somewhere along the line Oscar has become underappreciated. Also possibly due to his many business interests.

I think the truth of the matter is ODH was a very proud fighting man, blessed with superb hand speed, footwork and power.He had grit and charisma he had it all.

I cant comment on many of the matchups as I didnt see the fighters in the list actually fight.
I did see Camacho, rosario and ramirez and i think oscar would beat them

[elmersalsa]

First, to me, De La Hoya was not a complete fighter.

Second, he did not beat the great Pernell Whitaker, and probably, in my view, did not beat John John Molina. They gave him the fight. The fight with Tito, I could say personally that Oscar won, BUT, HE DID NOT DO ENOUGH. He did not win convincingly. Tito did not win convincingly either. If DLH would have closed the show by throwing more leather in the later rounds, it would have give him the best win of his career, in the biggest fight of his career.

Then he loses to Bernard Hopkins, Shane Mosley, Floyd Mayweather Jr. in which in none of those fights, he did not impress me.

[dempseyfire]

Give me a break, Oscar handidly beat Molina; Lederman's card was a joke. Oscar also won more rounds clearly than Trinidad, you can hate the way he fought the last few rounds all you want but he still by the rules of boxing won that fight.

Some people could never get over the 'pretty boy' image of Oscar and so every fight of Oscar's they view with very tainted glasses.

[Goodnight, Irene]

First, to me, De La Hoya was not a complete fighter.

Second, he did not beat the great Pernell Whitaker, and probably, in my view, did not beat John John Molina. They gave him the fight. The fight with Tito, I could say personally that Oscar won, BUT, HE DID NOT DO ENOUGH. He did not win convincingly. Tito did not win convincingly either. If DLH would have closed the show by throwing more leather in the later rounds, it would have give him the best win of his career, in the biggest fight of his career.

Then he loses to Bernard Hopkins, Shane Mosley, Floyd Mayweather Jr. in which in none of those fights, he did not impress me.

Yawn.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Give me a break, Oscar handidly beat Molina; Lederman's card was a joke. Oscar also won more rounds clearly than Trinidad, you can hate the way he fought the last few rounds all you want but he still by the rules of boxing won that fight.

Some people could never get over the 'pretty boy' image of Oscar and so every fight of Oscar's they view with very tainted glasses.

Agreed, I always laugh at that harold card and anyone that tries to talk about it. Molina performed in his usual gritty fashion and won 4 rounds. Oscar clearly beat tito.

Whitaker was however completely robbed in that fight.

As for these match ups. I think Pryor and dejesus beat Oscar. Buchanan & laguna are 50/50. He beats the rest of them.

[gambler49]

Better than Chavez, peak-for-peak.

He was a great fighter tho!

[Goodnight, Irene]

Better than Chavez, peak-for-peak.

He was a great fighter tho!

To be honest, over the years I've gone back-&-forth over who would've beaten who between the De La Hoya of around 1996 & the Chavez from about 1989 at Jr. Welter...it's completely open to interpretation, IMO. Just pushing his buttons

[gambler49]

Better than Chavez, peak-for-peak.

He was a great fighter tho!

To be honest, over the years I've gone back-&-forth over who would've beaten who between the De La Hoya of around 1996 & the Chavez from about 1989 at Jr. Welter...it's completely open to interpretation, IMO. Just pushing his buttons

H2H there wouldn't be much in it due to the fact ODH is naturaly bigger. But p4p u gotta r8 JCC higher. I would also r8 PW higher.
But all the same he was 1 hellava fighter. And there was no way he could be making 135 after he was 21. I hope he stays retired now.

[Datsue]

To be honest, over the years I've gone back-&-forth over who would've beaten who between the De La Hoya of around 1996 & the Chavez from about 1989 at Jr. Welter...it's completely open to interpretation, IMO. Just pushing his buttons

I think Chavez was better at lightweight. Compare how he looked versus Mayweather (II) & even Camacho (dominant but flat & beginning to regress technically) to the Rosario, Ramirez performances etc.: he'd begun to lose his head movement & the great engine was, if not wearing down, then at least you could say that the the incline was only going to be heading downwards from now on.

This is one of those situations where it's not really fair to rate Oscar as a lightweight -- still growing, just a kid -- & it's not quite fair to rate Chavez as a light-welter (past his peak). Day-before weigh-ins have blurred the divisions to the extent where it's difficult to know where to exactly rate guys, but for my money Chavez should be considered as a lightweight & Oscar somewhere above, maybe even as a fully-fledged welter. Therefore the mythical head-to-head runs into the weird slanting toward one guy or the other depending on whom you're handicapping & at what point in their respective careers you are considering (like saying Mikkel Kessler would've beat an old Tommy Hearns at light-heavy -- not sure he would BTW, just pulling it out of my arse for comparison's sake! -- without taking into account that they both also fought at light-middle, where I'm sure Tommy would've iced him in seconds).

[Goodnight, Irene]

It's obvious to me that the best meeting point for De La Hoya & Chavez is 140, where, IMO, Chavez was still quite close to the peak of his powers (around 88-90), & De La Hoya had moved onward & upward from Lightweight to what was, IMO, his best weightclass. Be a mighty close fight.

[elmersalsa]

Give me a break, Oscar handidly beat Molina; Lederman's card was a joke. Oscar also won more rounds clearly than Trinidad, you can hate the way he fought the last few rounds all you want but he still by the rules of boxing won that fight.

Some people could never get over the 'pretty boy' image of Oscar and so every fight of Oscar's they view with very tainted glasses.

That he handidly do what? Molina kicked his ass. John John carried the fight, was more agressive and Oscar was clutching like a sissy. Fight!!!

With Tito, I believe he won the fight. He beat Tito. But to me, NONE OF THE TWO deserved that night to be called "great fighters" in a night of that magnitude to prove and show the whole world what they were about. They fought like two pussssies. One did not wanted to get in and the other was running like a chicken. Both of them were PUSSYCATS THAT NIGHT.

I never agree with Harold Lederman's scoring. He had Meldrick Taylor all the rounds winning against the great Julio Cesar Chavez. The fight was much CLOSER than that. Ever since that night, I have never liked Lederman. He's too biased.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Taylor was way ahead of Chavez, 8-3 would be generous to Chavez.

[Goodnight, Irene]

"...That he handidly do what? Molina kicked his ass. John John carried the fight, was more agressive and Oscar was clutching like a sissy. Fight!!!" - Elmer

You're a fvcking sensationalist. Every time you take up arms over some arguable result (not that this one is), you signature your posts with, "Fighter X kicked his ass!" &, "That is BULLSHIT!" exaggerating your claims ten-fold.

Everybody here saw the fight. We all know you hate Oscar. Give us a break. Arguing Molina won is enough to open yourself to criticism. Saying he, "kicked De La Hoya's ass," is painting a target on your head. It is simply, unapologetically, a retarded thing to say.

[elmersalsa]

It happens every time. Every time that I debate with someone, always had the guts of name calling attitudes. Now to Goodnight Irene, it was retarded what I have said.

I saw the fight, and to me, IT WAS A ROBBERY. John John won the fight. I did not see DLH win this fight at all.