I find it strange that when a good match comes about it is hardly ever discussed.
Relating to my other thread, this is apparently the next live boxing scheduled - April the 9th.
I have the feeling that nobody will be tipping the Commonwealth champion to successfully defend. I hope some people give him a chance at least, be interested to here your views.
Arthur vs Docherty predictions
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Manos de Oro
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Arthur is the worst type of hype machine - the kind that believes it's own hype.
Doc can be slippery, Arthur has a (hereditary, I think?) bad back, which hinders his lateral movement. I think if Doc can get in close, stay low inside and dig away, he's got a very good chance of the 'upset'. I still make Arthur the favourite because I can see him keeping Docherty at arms length and boxing open some cuts, maybe even stop him.
Doc can be slippery, Arthur has a (hereditary, I think?) bad back, which hinders his lateral movement. I think if Doc can get in close, stay low inside and dig away, he's got a very good chance of the 'upset'. I still make Arthur the favourite because I can see him keeping Docherty at arms length and boxing open some cuts, maybe even stop him.
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jomothepure
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Slapsie Maxie
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Bard of Boxrec
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Arthur has vowed to run naked through edinburgh if he loses.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/4372303.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/4372303.stm
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Manos de Oro
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Same here, I liked him up until that memorable night. He came across as being brand new in interviews and in person.Kilburn wrote:Has Arthur really got everyones backs up? I was over the moon when he lost but that was more being happy for Gomez than anything.
He came across as a really nice lad last time I saw him interviewed. I wish him luck.
But it was the complete denial following that loss that was irritating - making demands for Allegedly to get him a world title shot within the year and all sorts. You just got brutally slain at domestic level mate!
Then he constantly dismisses his domestic colleagues as if he's above them all. I usually see him mentioned as 'the IBF super-featherweight champion' in the media up here. Although this isn't his fault, it's very annoying.
That's the problem really, the PR dept. at Waxworks Inc. provide really good service to their main players. It's when those main players start to believe their own hype a lot of boxing fans turn on them. Hatton and Macarinelli, though fraud titlists, seem genuinley sound people. Arthur and Calzaghe seem to have vanished up their own arses. Scott Harrison has shown signs he is going the same way with the worrying comparisons he recently made between himself and Benny Lynch et al.
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Old bones Ian
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jomothepure
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Hearts and Hibs are both at Hampden on Sat/Sun. That's, say, 50,000 between them. Have to say I'm doing both tho :P . Maybe it's a money thing, maybe it's the old chestnut of less and less people knowing and/or caring :(KOJOE90 wrote:Apparently tickets sales are not going too well. I am a little suprised, maybe it is just a sign of what can happen when both fighters are only exposed on SKY TV?
Shame as it's a real fight for a real title as well.
Two terrific boxersTHEBUTCH wrote:Alex to win. Either by cuts or genuine stoppage.
Two terrific boxers whose style should complement each others. Should be a sparkling encounter
One guy is chinny and the other has got so much talent he lets himself get outworked in his hometown by a near 40yr old 
There has to be some reason the arena is only half full
Well Maloneys been in the press banging on about how, if the poor sales continue at sports network events up here then they will have no choice but to stop promoting up here.
Now as a regular attender of boxings shows in gods own country id have to say to that... big deal Mr Maloney. He cites this as one of the reasons that the Harrison v Brodie bout is going to Manchester. Unfortunately he doesnt stop to think why the fights arent selling. Up unitl maybe his last 3 or 4 fights Harrison sold out the barn like 5000 seat Braehead Arena with no difficulty, this despite the fact that unless you have private transport its a nightmare to get to. And despite the fact that other than Harrison or Arthur, when he supported him, there was a discernable lack of well known boxers on the bill to attract the casual punter.
then the rot seemed to set in. headline fights against guys no one had ever heard of before and at 'championship prices'. Now we Scots have a reputation as being fond of keeping our pennies. this applies to spending money on quality things, so why would we want to spent our coppers and groats on second rate bouts and third rate support fights? We're not mug mancunians after all
Braehead when full generates an amazing atmosphere. but it was only ever full for the main bouts. whoever heard of 2-3000 people turning up to watch the undercard? Maloney banged on about taking Harrisons next fight to the Kelvin Hall. Much better idea. Smaller hall, great tradition, amazing atmosphere (even when half empty) and easy to get to. right outside the tube station at Kelvin Grove. Even an Edinburgh laddie like myself never judged it as a chore to watch fights there. But what did he do? Yep he decided to have it at Braehead again, which never sold out and had clumps of empty seats, prompting his "where is this famous tartan army we keep hearing about"
As regards Arthur fighting at Meadowbank. This fight, as you may recal was originally won on purse bids by Tommy Gilmour and Barry Hearns Matchroom, beating the bid put in by SN to be staged last week at the Kelvin Hall. But then his master at Sports Network got the hump about the way the timing of the fight was being handled and ran to the BBBofC
screaming "its no fair". the fight then went to SN who decided to move it to the larger and less atmospheric cowshed tht is Meadowbank, paying the boxers more money (nothing wrong with that, Gilmour was delighted infact) and putting in a higher purse bid. Now Im no economist, but i would imagine the thinking was along these lines.... We spent more money so we will have to make more money, bigger venue=more seats=higher prices= more punters= more profit. The only flaw in the plan is that other than the main bou and a few hundered Gary Young fans from Gilmerton, theres next to nothing on the support for your average Joe to get worked up about. Seems "this famous tartan army" have abit more sense than rather paying out to watch dross
Unfortunatley it all seems to have turned round and bit them on the arse and we're hearing them scream like stuck pigs again. Lets be honest, bar the Gomez fight not one of the Arthur bouts have been close to being interesting or meaningful, and this is coming from someone who has watched and followed Alex since his amateur days. And as for his last but one fight there, who remembers Michael Kizza?
KO Joe wrote, quite rightly its a shame as its for a genuine title too. But you got to ask yourself why do very few people these days recognise a fight for a genuine title. the reson is that they are sick to the back teeth of being fobbed off with mickey mouse baubles. now which promotions company have been recently flogging Alexs fights as for the IBF Intercontinental Super Featherweight Title? who has been passing that off as genuine championship boxing?
So what are the Frankies threatening to do? Take the fights down south and we will have to watch them on TV. now i might be wrong here, but those fans sick to the back teeth of watching fights in half empty barns against unheard of opponents, sitting through a far from inspiring undercard for titles drempt up in some dream somewhere and paying handsomley for the priveledge, might already be staying at home or in the boozer watching it already. so how exactly are we going to lose out there Frankys? I mean whats the thinking?... "Right if you people arent going to buy tickets for our shows and watch them on TV instead, then we'll take them somewhere that you wont buy tickets for and youll have to watch them on tv instead"
There are only so many times that punters can be fleeced after all. Unless your a manc hatton fan i suppose.
And all this on a weekend when both the local football teams are playing cup semi finals in Galsgow. I wonder who forgot to take that into consideration when it came to planning when to stage the bout?
For what its worth, im going for Arthur to win this. KO, stoppage or Cuts. Dochertys a classy fighter and possibly naturally technically better then Arthur but i just think he lacks the power to get to Alex, who seems to have slipped into his new style with a degree of improvement.
Oh and can I just say, i dont think anyones mentioned this yet, that this is the biggest fight north of the border since Kenny Buchanan fought Jim Watt in 1973
Finished!
Now as a regular attender of boxings shows in gods own country id have to say to that... big deal Mr Maloney. He cites this as one of the reasons that the Harrison v Brodie bout is going to Manchester. Unfortunately he doesnt stop to think why the fights arent selling. Up unitl maybe his last 3 or 4 fights Harrison sold out the barn like 5000 seat Braehead Arena with no difficulty, this despite the fact that unless you have private transport its a nightmare to get to. And despite the fact that other than Harrison or Arthur, when he supported him, there was a discernable lack of well known boxers on the bill to attract the casual punter.
then the rot seemed to set in. headline fights against guys no one had ever heard of before and at 'championship prices'. Now we Scots have a reputation as being fond of keeping our pennies. this applies to spending money on quality things, so why would we want to spent our coppers and groats on second rate bouts and third rate support fights? We're not mug mancunians after all
Braehead when full generates an amazing atmosphere. but it was only ever full for the main bouts. whoever heard of 2-3000 people turning up to watch the undercard? Maloney banged on about taking Harrisons next fight to the Kelvin Hall. Much better idea. Smaller hall, great tradition, amazing atmosphere (even when half empty) and easy to get to. right outside the tube station at Kelvin Grove. Even an Edinburgh laddie like myself never judged it as a chore to watch fights there. But what did he do? Yep he decided to have it at Braehead again, which never sold out and had clumps of empty seats, prompting his "where is this famous tartan army we keep hearing about"
As regards Arthur fighting at Meadowbank. This fight, as you may recal was originally won on purse bids by Tommy Gilmour and Barry Hearns Matchroom, beating the bid put in by SN to be staged last week at the Kelvin Hall. But then his master at Sports Network got the hump about the way the timing of the fight was being handled and ran to the BBBofC
screaming "its no fair". the fight then went to SN who decided to move it to the larger and less atmospheric cowshed tht is Meadowbank, paying the boxers more money (nothing wrong with that, Gilmour was delighted infact) and putting in a higher purse bid. Now Im no economist, but i would imagine the thinking was along these lines.... We spent more money so we will have to make more money, bigger venue=more seats=higher prices= more punters= more profit. The only flaw in the plan is that other than the main bou and a few hundered Gary Young fans from Gilmerton, theres next to nothing on the support for your average Joe to get worked up about. Seems "this famous tartan army" have abit more sense than rather paying out to watch dross
Unfortunatley it all seems to have turned round and bit them on the arse and we're hearing them scream like stuck pigs again. Lets be honest, bar the Gomez fight not one of the Arthur bouts have been close to being interesting or meaningful, and this is coming from someone who has watched and followed Alex since his amateur days. And as for his last but one fight there, who remembers Michael Kizza?
KO Joe wrote, quite rightly its a shame as its for a genuine title too. But you got to ask yourself why do very few people these days recognise a fight for a genuine title. the reson is that they are sick to the back teeth of being fobbed off with mickey mouse baubles. now which promotions company have been recently flogging Alexs fights as for the IBF Intercontinental Super Featherweight Title? who has been passing that off as genuine championship boxing?
So what are the Frankies threatening to do? Take the fights down south and we will have to watch them on TV. now i might be wrong here, but those fans sick to the back teeth of watching fights in half empty barns against unheard of opponents, sitting through a far from inspiring undercard for titles drempt up in some dream somewhere and paying handsomley for the priveledge, might already be staying at home or in the boozer watching it already. so how exactly are we going to lose out there Frankys? I mean whats the thinking?... "Right if you people arent going to buy tickets for our shows and watch them on TV instead, then we'll take them somewhere that you wont buy tickets for and youll have to watch them on tv instead"
There are only so many times that punters can be fleeced after all. Unless your a manc hatton fan i suppose.
And all this on a weekend when both the local football teams are playing cup semi finals in Galsgow. I wonder who forgot to take that into consideration when it came to planning when to stage the bout?
For what its worth, im going for Arthur to win this. KO, stoppage or Cuts. Dochertys a classy fighter and possibly naturally technically better then Arthur but i just think he lacks the power to get to Alex, who seems to have slipped into his new style with a degree of improvement.
Oh and can I just say, i dont think anyones mentioned this yet, that this is the biggest fight north of the border since Kenny Buchanan fought Jim Watt in 1973
Finished!
Last edited by neil r on 06 Apr 2005, 18:34, edited 1 time in total.
I've almost forgotten what it's like to have a decent domestic scrap to look forward to. It's been a crap year so far.
I haven't seen Docherty that much, I think Arthur has more gears so I'll go for Amazin Alex to stop him somewhere in the middle rounds. But then again that was pretty much what I thought about Gomez....
I haven't seen Docherty that much, I think Arthur has more gears so I'll go for Amazin Alex to stop him somewhere in the middle rounds. But then again that was pretty much what I thought about Gomez....
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Manos de Oro
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I think because it's in Edinburgh. Arthur got devastated in his big moment there, participated in the Kizza farce, then fought a cautious (but good for him) 12 rounder. These are factors that will have decreased the casual turnout. Plus there's the fitba factor. They should have put this one on Saturday night at the Kelvin Hall. With a bit of clever marketing they could divert many a fan to some cheap buses at Mount Florida and on to the Kelvin Hall. But maybe I'm just being idealistic.dve3333 wrote:There has to be some reason the arena is only half full
As for the fight: Arthur TKO 6 (strong possibilty of cuts). Still have many questions about Arthur. First thing I want to see is his chin tested early again by an aggressive come-forward type.
Even though I am going for an Athur win I am not at all confident with the pick. We will find out if Arthur has learned from the Gomez fight or not. I suspect he has and will have too much for Docherty. Although, if not I think Docherty will win by a late stoppage.
Even with my pick of Arthur it is hard to predict the manner of his win. I suspect it will be an inside of the distance although whether it is early or not is another matter. Docherty was outgunned by Gomez and stopped early. I would say Arthur has a similar (if not greater) level of power than Michael. Arthur could just out gun Docherty and stop him early. However, Docherty HAS learned from that fight and I haven't seen him in much trouble since that fight (and he has faced some decent punchers). His defence has tightend, so perhaps Arthur might not catch Docherty enough times cleanly to hurt him.
However, I do suspect if this is the case (Arthur not hurting Docherty) that cuts will be his undoing and I see the fight being stopped around the 9th or 10th round.
In other words, I haven't got a clue what will happen here, just suspect an Arthur win.
Even with my pick of Arthur it is hard to predict the manner of his win. I suspect it will be an inside of the distance although whether it is early or not is another matter. Docherty was outgunned by Gomez and stopped early. I would say Arthur has a similar (if not greater) level of power than Michael. Arthur could just out gun Docherty and stop him early. However, Docherty HAS learned from that fight and I haven't seen him in much trouble since that fight (and he has faced some decent punchers). His defence has tightend, so perhaps Arthur might not catch Docherty enough times cleanly to hurt him.
However, I do suspect if this is the case (Arthur not hurting Docherty) that cuts will be his undoing and I see the fight being stopped around the 9th or 10th round.
In other words, I haven't got a clue what will happen here, just suspect an Arthur win.
Neil - you make some excellent points.
I haven't heard Frank say one of the reasons Harrison-Brodie is moving to Manchester is because of poor ticket sales. It isn't - it's all about cutting costs and telly exposure for the Yanks, which has to be a good thing for those involved.
It's simple. If you are a Scottish fight fan who has shelled out to see Arther-Kizza and/or Harrison-Kebede, would you stick your hand in your pocket again?
I haven't heard Frank say one of the reasons Harrison-Brodie is moving to Manchester is because of poor ticket sales. It isn't - it's all about cutting costs and telly exposure for the Yanks, which has to be a good thing for those involved.
It's simple. If you are a Scottish fight fan who has shelled out to see Arther-Kizza and/or Harrison-Kebede, would you stick your hand in your pocket again?
Ian, he was quoted as saying it in last night Edinburgh Evening News. Now you know its about US exposure as do I as does just about everyone else, what with it being on the same weekend as the Hatton bout, bur Maloney just couldnt resist using it as a wee dig to cover his, and the paymasters, failings.Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
I haven't heard Frank say one of the reasons Harrison-Brodie is moving to Manchester is because of poor ticket sales. It isn't - it's all about cutting costs and telly exposure for the Yanks, which has to be a good thing for those involved.
Re: Arthur vs Docherty predictions
Neil you hit the nail on the head with this bitstujones wrote:I find it strange that when a good match comes about it is hardly ever discussed.
Relating to my other thread, this is apparently the next live boxing scheduled - April the 9th.
I have the feeling that nobody will be tipping the Commonwealth champion to successfully defend. I hope some people give him a chance at least, be interested to here your views.
"The only flaw in the plan is that other than the main bou and a few hundered Gary Young fans from Gilmerton, theres next to nothing on the support for your average Joe to get worked up about. Seems "this famous tartan army" have abit more sense than rather paying out to watch dross"
I go to all the scottish fights and like yourself am in edinburgh,, am an amature and the likes of gary young,arthur and scott flynn,,, are all well known lads up here,
but fact of matter is i can predict the result of every single fight on friday nite except the main event which should be a good fight,, gary young was selling up to 1000 for a fight,, but now not as many as altough hes a great guy and is well loved in the boxing circuit up here, we aint going to be paying to watch him batter stiffs all day long. so all he will sell is a few hundred to the die hard gilmerton folk as you say,
so the main problem is a poor undercard and it would have been better in glasgow like you say.
What? Bigger than Joe Kelly v Ronnie Caroll II? Or Drew Docherty v Donnie Hood?neil r wrote: Oh and can I just say, i dont think anyones mentioned this yet, that this is the biggest fight north of the border since Kenny Buchanan fought Jim Watt in 1973
In all seriousness though, comparing that match up to Jim Watt v Ken Buchanan who were both world class operators is a bit over the top. I have heard the media coming out with that to try to hype it up but I don't think it's going to be very competitive. Docherty will hold his own for a bit but that's as far as it'll go I think.