Who had the toughest competition in the last 60 years?

[Goodnight, Irene]

The heavyweight era(s) and fighters that Ali crossed amount to what I believe to be the most challenging. And he conquered all. His greatness is proven in the many ways that he adapted.

You're obviously well-versed there.

Obviously not so well-versed with the other fighters mentioned, if you really think it's not close.

[dempseyfire]

Counting just fights from 1950 onward I fail to see any fighter who fought tougher comp than Emile Griffith. Certainly better overall comp than Ali.

[Ambling Alp]

I guess a lot of this is how you look at things. Are you just looking at the the ATG's that they fought? How much credit for fighting a lot of good contenders?

What about guys like Duran, Chavez and Arguello who fought some great competition but also fought a lot of journeyman? Do the fights against journeyman count against them, or just thrown out?

I believe Griffith fought the most top 10 contenders/champions of anyone mentioned.
He had 55. Here are what some others had:
Ali with 37, Robinson had 30, Ortiz had 29, Moore had 26,Tiger had 25, Fullmer had 22, Basilio had 20, Hagler had 17 and Maxim had 15.

Of course how good the division was at the time and wheter you were fightimng the #1 contender or the #10 contender has to be considered.

The heavyweight division was at it's best during the 1970s and pretty good in the 1960s. The Top 10 in the welterweight and middleweight divisions were respectable but nothing spectacular when Griffith fought.

What is fairly rare about Griffith is that he fought so many good fighters from more than one weight classes in a long career.

There is a lot to chew on.

[Shazam!]

Good point about journeyman. Ali's era was so strong that he didn't get many fights in against journeymen...If you look the big names mentioned you're looking at 5 or 6 ATG Heavyweights that Ali fought. That in itself is pretty incredible. Then there's still other great heavyweights who aren't even there, who would probably be standing out in today's division.

People like Jerry Quarry, Joe Bugner, Jimmy Young, Ernie Terrell, Oscar Bonavena, Jimmy Ellis, Buster Mathis etc weren't even mentioned...

There was an incredible pool of talent in the 60's and 70's. That's what you have to look at. I find it very difficult to name a division that was so rich as this.

[Idisagree]

I guess a lot of this is how you look at things. Are you just looking at the the ATG's that they fought? How much credit for fighting a lot of good contenders?

What about guys like Duran, Chavez and Arguello who fought some great competition but also fought a lot of journeyman? Do the fights against journeyman count against them, or just thrown out?

I believe Griffith fought the most top 10 contenders/champions of anyone mentioned.
He had 55. Here are what some others had:
Ali with 37, Robinson had 30, Ortiz had 29, Moore had 26,Tiger had 25, Fullmer had 22, Basilio had 20, Hagler had 17 and Maxim had 15.

Of course how good the division was at the time and wheter you were fightimng the #1 contender or the #10 contender has to be considered.

The heavyweight division was at it's best during the 1970s and pretty good in the 1960s. The Top 10 in the welterweight and middleweight divisions were respectable but nothing spectacular when Griffith fought.

What is fairly rare about Griffith is that he fought so many good fighters from more than one weight classes in a long career.

There is a lot to chew on.

Based on that list it should go like this:
1. Griffith
2. Ali
3. Robinson
4. Ortiz
5. Moore

[Expug]

What about some of the journeymen out there that have been used as stepping stones for future contenders?

Yes, I thought right away of George "ScrapIron" Johnson.

Liston
Foreman
Frazier
Quarryx2
Lyle
Eddie Machen
Thad Spencer

If you didnt know how to fight, Scrapiron was to be avoided.
Or, after you fought him, it was real clear where you stood.

[kikibalt]

Griffith would be my choice of those listed. I think Archie Moore is being overlooked here. Just in his fights from 1950 and forward

Harold Johnson X4
Joey Maxim x3
Nino Valdes x2
Yvonne Durelle x2
Bert Lytell
Jimmy Bivins
Bob baker
Bobo Olson
Rocky Marciano
Floyd Patterson
Willie Pastrano
Muhammad Ali
Eddie Cotton

That's not even listing solid fighters like Besmanoff, Whitehurst and others. Arch might not get the nod, but he has to be in the top5

[Ambling Alp]

If you look just at the cream of the crop opponents, then its pretty close.

For example, Grffith had a total of 12 fights vs Rodriquez, Tiger, Bevenuti, Napoles, and Monzon. That is comparable to Ali 12 fights vs Patterson, Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, and Holmes. A few others mentioned had several fights against great opponents as well.

However, Grffith and Ali had more depth than the others. They fought more very good and good opponents.

If you look at the next level of opponents that they fought, ali took on Quarry (twice)Shavers, Ellis, Lyle, Young. That is a little better than the "very good" fighters that Griffith fought. However, Griffith fought more fighters a level further down than Ali. Fighters that solid contenders but nothing special.

[elmersalsa]

Joey Giardello and Orlando Zulueta had lots of great opponents.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Lennox Lewis? Are you serious?

He wouldn't crack my top 100. Not even close to it.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Who said anything about it not being respected? Just surprised to see it come up for the last 60 years. I don't think it would deserve a mention for the last 20.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Lennox Lewis? Are you serious?

He wouldn't crack my top 100. Not even close to it.

Felt like throwing out candidates for consideration.

Lennox wouldn't be anywhere near my top five, but two things that hurt Lennox's resume is that A) Bowe ducked him and B) Tyson paid him step-aside money. If neither of those things didn't happen Lennox's resume could have been:

(Past his Peak but still good) Holyfield
Prime Bowe
Early-Mid 90's Tyson
Prime Mercer
Prime Ruddock
Prime Frank Bruno
Prime David Tua
Prime Tony Tucker
Prime Tommy Morrison

I'd say that would have been a very respected resume.

Sorry, but you did post him as a candidate in a thread entitled, "Who Had The Best Competition In The Last 60 Years?" You say you wouldn't have him, "anywhere near" your top-five, but you must see at least a case for him being number-one, as that's what you said.

That is utterly indefensible. No?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

That being the case, you could have named 100 guys with a better resume than Lewis. So listing him doesn't make sense.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Well, you certainly succeed in bringing in someone, "Different." I can't deny you that much. If it helps, though, I think Shazam! agrees with your selection

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Fair enough, I'm not sure about 100 either. It's probably closer to 200.

[dberry]

Fair enough, I'm not sure about 100 either. It's probably closer to 200.

Please list.