Holyfield off to Germany?

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 24 Mar 2005, 14:47

Fightnews are reporting that former Heavyweight and Cruiserweight Champion Evander Holyfield is thinking about continueing his Boxing career outside of the USA. He mentioned possibley fighting in Germany.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 24 Mar 2005, 14:50

Hopefully he gets banned wherever he goes. If you measure fighters by how much 'money's worth' the crowd got... Holyfield gave us infinite riches.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 24 Mar 2005, 15:53

We have had this debate before, as far as I am concerned if he is deemed physically and psychologically fit to box then he should be licenced.

Wales · Post by **Wales** » 24 Mar 2005, 16:47

he cant compete with the top level guys but i still reckon he'd spark a helluva lot of lower level fighters out there...

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 24 Mar 2005, 16:55

stujones wrote:We have had this debate before, as far as I am concerned if he is deemed physically and psychologically fit to box then he should be licenced.

I agree. The thing is, it is plainly obvious that he isn't physically and psychologically fit to box. The evidence is there. The reflexes are gone: Larry Donald shut him out ffs! He talks about becoming undisputed champion again, unifying the real titles: this is not a realistic target for someone with his post-Lewis record (especially considering how this target would have been possible in his prime). People who set unrealistic targets like that are often depressed and cannot face reality; Holyfield cannot face life without boxing. He is such a cliche it is not even funny.

NYSAC is as dodgy as they come, and if they ban him, anywhere else that sanctions him will take a credibility nose-dive, imo.

Matt Skelton may even beat him at this point, and no offence to Matt - who is a good guy - but I'd hate to see that. I honestly think he may be at that stage in his myth where Tyson was before Williams: ripe for a career-ending defeat by a domestic level or even journeyman fighter.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 24 Mar 2005, 17:17

Yes, Manos I can see your point - but what you are saying is that he isn't physically fit to fight WELL. I'm not saying that he isn't shot of course he is, but if he passes the stricked medicals then who is anyone to prevent him from making a living.

Julius Francis is a 40 and is absolutely terrible, should he be prevented. I'm sure he will pass every medical going. Perhaps Holyfield would not pass the medicals, I agree it would appear that he wouldn't (especially on the psychological side). But he should have the tests as opposed to just having his license revoked.

ArtOfWar · Post by **ArtOfWar** » 24 Mar 2005, 17:18

stujones wrote:We have had this debate before, as far as I am concerned if he is deemed physically and psychologically fit to box then he should be licenced.

I feel the same way. He's a grown man, and should be allowed to make his own decisions. If it's bad for his health, well that's his choice.

armageto · Post by **armageto** » 24 Mar 2005, 23:58

I don't think Evander can compete with anyone anymore, top level or not. He was bullied by Toney and got totally outclassed by Larry Donald

It's time for him to call it quits beofre he gets hurt in the ring giving boxing another black eye..........

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 25 Mar 2005, 09:04

Yer it's a risky assumption to say that he is physically and mentally fit.

From what I have seen he looks like an accident waiting to happen. It's also worth pointing out that unlike Julius Francis, he doesn't need to make a living in the ring.

In fact Julius Francis would probably beat the 2005 version of Holyfield.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 25 Mar 2005, 21:41

Twinkle Toes wrote: It's also worth pointing out that unlike Julius Francis, he doesn't need to make a living in the ring.

I don't think that is worth pointing out, why should finances have anything to do with it. If your physically and psychologically fit, then it shouldn't matter about your finances.

Tyson is pushing 40 and needs to fit. What happens if test show is brain is as damaged as Holyfields - allow Tyson to fight because he needs to and not allow Holyfields? Finances have nothing to do with it - A sales rep might have made enough many so that he could retire, would we force him too? No, if he enjoys it and is capable (that doesn't mean capable of doing it well) then we would allow him.

Twinkle Toes · Post by **Twinkle Toes** » 26 Mar 2005, 03:43

His finances should be pointed out, because people are using it as an arguement for him to carry on boxing i.e he has a right to make a living.

The point I was making was that he doesnt need to step between the ropes to make a living - Fact.

Using the analogy about a sales rep is down right stupid. You can't get killed being a sales rep (they are'nt in the hitting business) - Think about what you're saying.

I don't think the guy is physically or mentally fit for the ring, and in my opinion any self respecting boxing fan would have seen this over the duration of his last couple of fights.

I've argued many a time with some of my relatives about whether boxing should be banned, so I don't say this lightly.

But on this occasion I would say Holyfield needs protecting from himself, and it disappoints me to see fellow fans more interested in his rights than in his safety as a human being.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 26 Mar 2005, 06:52

One important thing about this is that Holyfield - I don't think - is capable of the Journeyman's mindset. I think he will continue sticking his chin in there for as long as he's allowed.

It could be argued that he is still capable of performing - people mention the Rahman fight - but I think that'll be the case till the day he dies; just one of those guys that knows how to fight, and on any given night can produce the goods. The problem is, if he can do that say, 1 in every 10 fights, should he be allowed to take 9 beatings for that 1 'last' great performance?

dve3333 · Post by **dve3333** » 26 Mar 2005, 07:32

It pains me to say this but part of me would like to see him kayoed badly so he wouldnt contemplate returning

:(

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 26 Mar 2005, 07:44

Twinkle Toes wrote:His finances should be pointed out, because people are using it as an arguement for him to carry on boxing i.e he has a right to make a living.

The point I was making was that he doesnt need to step between the ropes to make a living - Fact.

Using the analogy about a sales rep is down right stupid. You can't get killed being a sales rep (they are'nt in the hitting business) - Think about what you're saying.

I don't think the guy is physically or mentally fit for the ring, and in my opinion any self respecting boxing fan would have seen this over the duration of his last couple of fights.

I've argued many a time with some of my relatives about whether boxing should be banned, so I don't say this lightly.

But on this occasion I would say Holyfield needs protecting from himself, and it disappoints me to see fellow fans more interested in his rights than in his safety as a human being.

I agree, all I am saying is let the doctors decide if he is. I don't think Tyson is mentally or physically fit to fight anymore also. This is where your line about his finances goes out of the window. Is it okay for Tyson to fight on cause he needs the money? You are saying that the safety of the human being is paramount but then using Holyfields and Francis financial situation as a reason why one should be banned and the other shouldn't. If its his safety is paramount then the finances shouldn't be looked at.

I'm no doctor and perhaps Tyson is more physically and mentally healthy to fight than Holyfield - but lets at least find out instead of barring one without doing any tests. The symptoms are there for Tyson aswell, rambling speech that has quieten over the years - can only fight for one round.

The sales rep analogy might be stupid, but the fact are that it is Holyfield's living - if he passes the tests he should be allowed to fight. Personally I don't think he will pass the tests (like Ali DIDN'T), obviously there is a risk of the test results being rigged to suit the promoters (ala Ali) but I will accept him back if he GENIUNALLY passes the tests.

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 26 Mar 2005, 07:49

From boxing-central:
Heavyweight Champion Andreas Sidon has thrown down a challenge to ageing former champ Evander Holyfield to fight him in Germany. Sidon's agent, Sandro Gelke, is working with a US promoter on putting together the fight for this summer in Germany. Sidon was due to appear on last night’s cancelled show at the Delta Centre in Salt Lake City, Utah.

“Sidon and Holyfield are very popular in Germany,” said Gelke.

“We would expect a big crowd for this fight. The undercard will feature up and coming German fighters.”

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 27 Mar 2005, 11:37

Apart from I assume a good payday what does Andreas Sidon hope to gain from fighting the shadow of Evander Holyfield?

Does anyone think better of Trevor Berbick for beating up on the shell of Muhamad Ali?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 27 Mar 2005, 11:52

KOJOE90 wrote:Apart from I assume a good payday what does Andreas Sidon hope to gain from fighting the shadow of Evander Holyfield?

Does anyone think better of Trevor Berbick for beating up on the shell of Muhamad Ali?

Slightly different scenerio. Ali called out fighters of the Berbick callibre he blamed (publically at least) the shambling Holmes performance and poor preperation management (trained to lose the weight). He said on Parkinson (the 3rd interview) that he wanted to fight Holmes again but must beat a contendor first.

Berbick was that rising contendor, Berbick was close if not in the worlds top ten and was considered good. It was (although it never happened) looked upon as some kind of eliminator for Holmes.

This scenerio is different, 1) Holyfield hasn't mentioned the type of opponent (level wise) he wants to face 2)Holyfield has had a succession of terrible performances (not just one) and is further down the ladder to the title than Ali was and 3) This guy is not at Berbicks world ranking a level pre the Ali fight.

Incidently, I have never seen Ali vs Berbick - there is a two disc DVD in the states of this fight (but unavailable here). I have heard the Ali did put in a much better showing in this fight than vs Holmes but it was still sad to watch.

Manos de Oro · Post by **Manos de Oro** » 27 Mar 2005, 12:40

I think I remember Berbick - Ali. The ring had a large white canvas and the crowd were completely dark. The version I saw also seemed to be eerily silent. In fact, it was much like those 70's fight films taken in the Spectrum in Philly. The fight itself was dire, truely woeful. Ali looked thin yet bloated and had the speed of a slug when he circled and threw out a sorry excuse for a jab.

In any case, I was just looking at Holyfield's record and noticed he has fought - if you include the WBO - TWENTY world champions (five of whom are Hall of Fame material). He has also won no less than two 'fights of the year', as well as causing one 'upset of the year'. Talk about Hall of Fame credentials...

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 27 Mar 2005, 14:24

Manos de Oro wrote:I think I remember Berbick - Ali. The ring had a large white canvas and the crowd were completely dark. The version I saw also seemed to be eerily silent. In fact, it was much like those 70's fight films taken in the Spectrum in Philly. The fight itself was dire, truely woeful. Ali looked thin yet bloated and had the speed of a slug when he circled and threw out a sorry excuse for a jab.

In any case, I was just looking at Holyfield's record and noticed he has fought - if you include the WBO - TWENTY world champions (five of whom are Hall of Fame material). He has also won no less than two 'fights of the year', as well as causing one 'upset of the year'. Talk about Hall of Fame credentials...

Yeah, just about worthy of fighting Sidon for the prestigious WBB I reckon

jab · Post by **jab** » 28 Mar 2005, 16:46

Andreas Sidon is a 6`5.5``, 245lb guy. He is kind of slow and his power isnt that much (for his size). He has troble fighting counter-punchers, so Holyfield should be able to ko this guy in the mid rounds. It may ybe good practice for taking on a tall fighter.

but where is going after that? He says he wants to be undisputed again, but he is 42 and hasnt beaten anyone good since Rahman.
He talked with Vitali for a shot, but Vitali turned him down because Holyfield is his idol and he doesnt want to hurt the old man.

Of the 4 major title holders the only one he can beat is Brewster. I hope he gets to fight him, get the WBO title and then retire before he is really hurt.

While he can still ko plenty of lower ranked fighters, that will never make him champ. He can line up all European fighter and ko them all and he still wouldnt be any closer to being undisputed. Vitali, and Byrd stand in the way of that and he doesnt have the toold to beat them anymore.

Just give him Brewster so he can retire in peace with at least one of the belts.
He can then become a boxing trainer where he can still be involved in the sport and use his great experience to help others climb to the title.

HeavyHitters · Post by **HeavyHitters** » 28 Mar 2005, 18:20

Evander Holyfield is gonna try and do a "The German 5". Where he'll take on Alexander Dimitrenko, Sergei Lyackhovich, Denis Boytsov, Sinan Samil Sam, and Cengiz Koc all in one night, one after another!

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 28 Mar 2005, 18:26

Only 1 of them are german, and one of them have never fourght in Germany.

jab · Post by **jab** » 28 Mar 2005, 20:20

Freiheit wrote:Only 1 of them are german, and one of them have never fourght in Germany.

Actually the first 3 are Russians and the last 2 are Turks. None of them are ethincally German. They might happen to fighte under German management and trainers, but they are not Germans.
However they are much better than most German boxers, the best of whom are second tier. Like Willie Fischer, Andreas Sidon and and Hoffman.

The best of this bunch is Samil Sam. Actually Sam is the wrong fighter for Holyfield because he punches very hard and takes a big punch. Sam would kill Holyfield at this stage. With his shot reflexes he should stay away from big punchers.

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 29 Mar 2005, 05:40

Koc was born in Germany and fourght for Germany in the olympics so I count him as german.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 29 Mar 2005, 05:52

Koc born in germany as freiheit says so no problem with him fighting under german flag.
Samil Sam also born in Germany so if he chose to fight under German flag, no problem...
Sergei Lyackhovich is belarussian
Dimitrenko Ukranian

Boytsin is the only RUSSIAN....