Did Larry Holmes had the greatest jab in boxing history???

elmersalsa · Post by **elmersalsa** » 22 Mar 2005, 13:18

I ask folks in this forum if the great larry Holmes had the best jab of all time. In my opinion, I think yes, but there were other legends that had also execellent jabs:

1. Thomas Hearns
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Panama Al Brown
4. Ken Buchanan
5. Carlos Monzon
6. Sonny Liston
7. George Foreman
8. Sugar Ray Leonard

any others???

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 22 Mar 2005, 14:44

Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles.

barry · Post by **barry** » 22 Mar 2005, 17:41

The jab, invented by Jem Mace...funny something so old is still such an integral and important part of boxing!

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 24 Mar 2005, 19:51

It amazes me how many fighters today don't know a jab from a book in Latin. Years ago even sluggers had good jabs... Jake Lamotta had a very decent jab.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 25 Mar 2005, 02:21

..silkov...excellent point about jake lamotta. when he defended his title againt tibero mitri he won easily....and by dominating the fight with his left jab. the boxing commissioner at the time (either eagan or christenberry) even complimented him after the fight for his giving such a good boxing exhibition insteadof his usual brawling style.

almost always shorter than his opponents, he could often out jab his taller foes.

about the most easy to find video of jake is the final fight with sugar ray robinson. from the begining jake is on the offense and the sugar man is on the retreat, and boxing beautifully. but....in those early rounds jake is matching robinson jab for jab....and sometimes outjabbing one of the masters of that particular weapon. as the fight went on jake..getting tired and weight weakened knew he had to press and go all out , trying to catch robinson on the ropes..which he finally did....and then robinson gave a display of defense while trapped...and jake shot his bolt and was eventually stopped.

Chuck1052 · Post by **Chuck1052** » 25 Mar 2005, 03:11

There has been an earlier thread about best jabs in
this Forum. I pointed out that I have seen two
heavyweights with great jabs during the last
thirty or so years. They were Larry Holmes
and Pinklon Thomas.

- Chuck Johnston

tonyevs · Post by **tonyevs** » 25 Mar 2005, 10:15

barry wrote:The jab, invented by Jem Mace...funny something so old is still such an integral and important part of boxing!

Was the jab really invented?? or just a refined punch??

IronKidDynamite · Post by **IronKidDynamite** » 25 Mar 2005, 20:53

What are you talking about? Fighters today use powerful jabs too. I guess Ike Quartey and De La Hoya forgot the jab too.

Compare those two with Mickey Walker who hardly ever threw a jab.

And LaMotta's jab was slow and weak.

Mace "invented" the jab? The jab is the most instinctive punch in boxing or indeed the world, apart from some guys who use it like a KO punch, but thats no more common then then now. Sugar Ray Robinson just had a fast flicking jab nothing special. Whereas Larry Holmes and Ray Leonard KNOCK guys down with jabs.

I appreciate the old-timers and they were as good as today but stop acting like fighters today are shit compared to them.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 25 Mar 2005, 21:04

..lamotta's jab wasn't a particularly hard one but it was far from weak..he could bust a guy up a little .

...as for it being slow....that's just a dumb statement.

IronKidDynamite · Post by **IronKidDynamite** » 26 Mar 2005, 13:19

Jaclem wrote:..lamotta's jab wasn't a particularly hard one but it was far from weak..he could bust a guy up a little .

...as for it being slow....that's just a dumb statement.

Dumb statement? I have seen 6 of his fights he fuckin did have a slow jab. i still cant understand how he managed to land on Robinson. I also cant undersnand how someone can deny his jab was slow.

Ali and Holmes snapped their jab out. Louis and Robinson snapped their jab out. Did LaMotta snap his jab out? No. Plus it was slow.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 26 Mar 2005, 15:08

elmersalsa wrote:I ask folks in this forum if the great larry Holmes had the best jab of all time. In my opinion, I think yes, but there were other legends that had also execellent jabs:

1. Thomas Hearns
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Panama Al Brown
4. Ken Buchanan
5. Carlos Monzon
6. Sonny Liston
7. George Foreman
8. Sugar Ray Leonard

any others???

Jackie Wilson.....but then he got ran over by a car.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 26 Mar 2005, 23:15

...dear ironkid...thank you for taking time away from your little easter basket to continue this discussion.

i am in no way claiming that lamotta belonged in the class with holmes, louis,hearns..etc..with his left jab....just agreeing with another poster that jake had a pretty good jab though he is seldom thought of as having that weapon.

..yes...i can see how you can be puzzled as to how he held his own for a while with sugar ray...espeially as his height and reach were much shorter.....how DID that little fellow do that with the slow jab you claim he had. a real paradox.

i'm guessing the fights of jake's you saw ..in addition to the valentine's massacre were against norman hayes, gene hairston and bob murphy....he fought each more than once and they have been shown on boxing classics tv. they were all near the end of his career when lamotta was well past his prime....and age and wear and tear does slow one down a bit...jab included. if you had seen a younger lamotta you might judge that jab differently.

whatever...you may get back to your little jelly beans and candy chicks now .

IronKidDynamite · Post by **IronKidDynamite** » 27 Mar 2005, 10:04

Jaclem wrote:...dear ironkid...thank you for taking time away from your little easter basket to continue this discussion.

i am in no way claiming that lamotta belonged in the class with holmes, louis,hearns..etc..with his left jab....just agreeing with another poster that jake had a pretty good jab though he is seldom thought of as having that weapon.

..yes...i can see how you can be puzzled as to how he held his own for a while with sugar ray...espeially as his height and reach were much shorter.....how DID that little fellow do that with the slow jab you claim he had. a real paradox.

i'm guessing the fights of jake's you saw ..in addition to the valentine's massacre were against norman hayes, gene hairston and bob murphy....he fought each more than once and they have been shown on boxing classics tv. they were all near the end of his career when lamotta was well past his prime....and age and wear and tear does slow one down a bit...jab included. if you had seen a younger lamotta you might judge that jab differently.

whatever...you may get back to your little jelly beans and candy chicks now .

Oh yeah maybe he was old although i also saw his fight with Cerdan. Yes i will stuff my face. Got a problem then fornicate off.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 28 Mar 2005, 01:33

ironkid...glad you enjoyed your easter candy. hope you didn't eat too much chocolate though...at your age that can play hell with your acne.

Goodnight Fanclub · Post by **Goodnight Fanclub** » 28 Mar 2005, 03:08

Jermain Taylor.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 30 Mar 2005, 11:03

Goodnight Fanclub wrote:Jermain Taylor.

Your on punishment when you get home.

:evil:

dan1030 · Post by **dan1030** » 31 Mar 2005, 14:42

Y'know, I think one reason a lot of people tend to underestimate Lamotta's boxing skills--including his jab--is the way he so famously fought Robinson. When plan A didn't work--outboxing the guy--Lamotta was always willing to try plan B--turn it into a war. That plus the way he was depicted in the fight scenes of "Raging Bull" can give someone the false impression that the guy had a lot of heart but not a lot of skills.

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 01 Apr 2005, 00:07

Lennox Lewis had a great jab

When he remembered to use it
When he didn't just paw with it

He used it to great effect for a lot of the Holyfield fights, the Tua fight (ok, managing to hit Tua with a jab isn't something to boast about), the second Rahman fight (jabbed hard AND fast this fight, quite impressive) and the Tyson fight.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 01 Apr 2005, 01:49

...dan 1030..excellent analysis of lamotta and why he's incorrectly dismissed as just a crude warrior by so many

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 01 Apr 2005, 05:34

Chuck1052 wrote:There has been an earlier thread about best jabs in
this Forum. I pointed out that I have seen two
heavyweights with great jabs during the last
thirty or so years. They were Larry Holmes
and Pinklon Thomas.

- Chuck Johnston

Tony Tubbs had a pretty good jab too, and was surprisingly fast for a fat fornicate.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 01 Apr 2005, 05:35

Jaclem wrote:...dan 1030..excellent analysis of lamotta and why he's incorrectly dismissed as just a crude warrior by so many

He also had a better defence than he was credited for. He is incorrectly thought of as a catcher, because of the annihilation at the hands of Robinson, but he was a pretty cagey fighter when he was working on the inside.

The_Power · Post by **The_Power** » 01 Apr 2005, 11:22

Not sure about the best of all time, but he had the best heavyweight jab ever, he won entire fights using that jab, he could make a fighter think twice before charging forward, and even when old his jab gave mike tyson plenty to think about for the first 3 rounds at least, till he old legs let him down.

Awesome jab.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 01 Apr 2005, 11:32

Yep, and he was good enough in his forties to hang with Holyfield, who was in his prime. That's some achievement.

crooked nose · Post by **crooked nose** » 01 Apr 2005, 16:40

Other great jabbers:
Matthew Saad Muhammad - a very solid offensive weapon, opened the door for his big right.
John Conteh - because of his damaged right hand, he was virtually one-handed late in his career.
When these two squared off, it was Conteh who got the better of the jab exchanges. He busted up Saad and nearly stopped him, but Saad's typical late rally pulled it out with a knockdown in rd. 14

But Holmes really did have the best. That puch went right through opponents' heads.

dan1030 · Post by **dan1030** » 06 Apr 2005, 03:31

I think what impressed me most about Holmes' jab is that he had more than one jab. I mean, sometimes it was a quick snappy jab without all that much on it that disrupted the other guy's rythm, other times it was a stiff jab capable of doing real damage. Different tempos, different angles--definitely one of the most versitile jabs in the business.

Did Larry Holmes had the greatest jab in boxing history???

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