Classic American West Coast Boxing

[CNorkusJr]

Charley Norkus and director Otto Preminger on set of "Advise and Consent" 1961.

Preminger was a huge boxing fan, and attended many of my fathers fights.

[raylawpc]

RayLaw- Thanks for the description you had going to an Live MMA.
I never did yet,and they dont have it here in NY, yet, but my nephews are all into it and spring for the PPV MMa bouts. I just dont get into it. It seems so under-controlled, meaning , compared to boxing with its rules. It was nice to see refs the other night call the rabbit punch warnings and holdings.
Maybe I'm getting old and seen too much boxing to enjoy this new wave stuff.

I really cant blame this younger generation getting into MMa.Boxing popularity and frequency are down, and the occaisional " sensational bouts" are far amd few between- the youth enjoy the MMA today,it gives them a sport that they feel part of- like boxing was ages ago.

Quick story- 1980's Felt Forum, NYC My dad was tapped to ref a few preliminaries. I sat ringside as his "bodyguard" which was a term he used to get me in past security at employees entrance. The Main event was a Puerto Rican fighter vs Irish kid. Their names elude right now. My dad was sitting ringside with me as the seconds counter, so the ref can pick up the count if a man is knocked down. The fight was close going into rds 9 & 10.
IT looked like the Puerto Rican kid had an edge in the last two rounds but the irish kid knocked him down once. At the start of rd 10 my father told me to start working my way back to offixcials dressing room. Quickly. Sure enough, the irish kid got the decision and the mostly latino crowd went nuts. Chairs, bottles, you name it flew at the ring. Shots rang out in the back. 2 people dead was in the headlines the next day.I am not a rascist, just telling you like I saw it. My father told me that close Main events will do this in New York as it has for many years. Gun shots are not the norm though.

Thanks, Chuck, I enjoyed your post. As I understand it from you and from the posts I've read from the West Coast guys, it seems like a lot of the trouible was generated at your venues by ethnic rivalry. We didn't have those kinds of problems in the Midwest. When a fight broke out it was generally because somebody said something rude to a guy's date, or the guy in front wouldn't take off his Stetson, so the fights were just between a couple of guys who got pissed at one another and decided to duke it out. We didn't have those large scale brawls Rick and Frank talk about, or that you've described. In fact, in Oklahoma City. we only had one security guy - an off-duty cop named Bob Green. Bob was 6-4 and 300 pounds, so he was generally able to settle things pretty quickly.

[kikibalt]

The brawls at the fights in LA were usually between the Mexican-American fans and the Mexican Nationals. In a big fight between a Chicano and a Mexican National be sure to wear your hard hat and armor vest....

[raylawpc]

Charley Norkus and director Otto Preminger on set of "Advise and Consent" 1961.

Preminger was a huge boxing fan, and attended many of my fathers fights.

I wonder if Rick ever worked with Preminger early in Rick's career? I think Preminger died in the mid-1980s, so maybe he was before Rick's time. As a boxing fan, he probably would have enjoyed having Rick on the crew.

[Randyman]

Speaking of brawls and fights at the fights, here's one from the Olympic Auditorium that stayed clean, if not fair. I posted this a while back but it seems to go with todays topic.

The Last Hurrah

It was the night Javier Muniz and Rudy Hernandez fought their first fight at the Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles on June 10, 1976. It wasn’t exactly on the undercard but it literally stole the show that night. It was one of those unexpected events that just make a life long impression on you.

I had a fight scheduled that night with an opponent whose name I can no longer recall, if I ever knew it at all. Just minutes before I was scheduled to fight it was called off. I don’t remember the reason. I got dressed and Mel Epstein and I went upstairs to get a seat and watch the fight. There was a section set up for managers, trainers and boxers and those that were involved closely with boxing. Not to far from that was a gambler’s area. This is where the unplanned co-main event took place.

Mel and I found a seat. To be perfectly honest I can’t remember if it was during the main event or if it was on the undercard. I’m thinking the undercard because if I remember correctly we hung around for a bit. At any rate while watching the fight, we couldn’t help but notice some commotion breaking out where all the gambler’s were seated. There were two men arguing over money. One man was older and he appeared to be in his sixties. He was wearing a hat and one of those cheap suits that seemed prevalent with the downtown crowd back in those days. It was dark and made from cheap fabric. The suit appeared to be old and worn. The man was either Mexican or Filipino, I couldn’t tell and neither could Mel. Mel said he recognized the man but could not place him.

The other man was much younger, probably in his late twenties and he was about to learn a valuable lesson that night, much to the delight of the crowd. The younger man was seated directly behind the older man. He was also seated a little higher due to the amphitheater style seating at the Olympic. They were making enough of a fuss so that the lighting man put the spot light on them. The whole arena was watching the argument unfold.

The older man wanted the money he had won, and the younger guy either felt like teasing him or had no intention of paying off the bet. In the end it didn’t really matter. The young guy was standing up and holding the money with his right hand, just out of reach of the old timer. When he jumped up to get the money the younger man would pull it back and laugh. So did his friends. This happened several times when without any warning or provocation, the younger man threw a sloppy left hand. Instantly and so unexpectedly the old timer countered with a quick, hard right hand to the jaw followed by a left hook. He knocked the guy out. He reached down, took the money, counted it and put it in his coat pocket. With the spotlight still on both of them the whole arena was going crazy. Not knowing what was going on in the crowd I’m sure the fighters in the ring thought the crowd was cheering their fight.

The old man looked out at the crowd and let out a big grin, then, probably figuring he better get the hell out of there, he walked over to the tunnel. Just before he walked down the stairs he looked at the crowd and let go of a few punches in the air, enjoying the moment. The crowd roared as if he had just won a title. He disappeared down the stairs. Whoever he was, he was the talk of the night. He was the main event of the evening.

[Randyman]

"The dumb bastid . . ."

-Mel Epstein's reference to a boxer who has fallen in love.

You got that right Rick. Mel hated them broads with a passion. He had a few choice words for them but I won't repeat them here.

To tell the truth, both Mel and Johnny were almost dead on right. A girl can rob a guy of his boxing career, not always on purpose but it happens. In some case maybe it saved their lives. who knows.

Whatever the outcome, Mel hated them. I wonder (with the exception of Aileen Eaton) what Mel would think of women in boxing today?

The spirit of Johnny Flores, Mel Epstein and all the long gone and almost forgotten fighters and characters, of the past live on in these pages and in our memories.

Randy

[raylawpc]

Speaking of brawls and fights at the fights, here's one from the Olympic Auditorium that stayed clean, if not fair. I posted this a while back but it seems to go with todays topic.

The Last Hurrah

It was the night Javier Muniz and Rudy Hernandez fought their first fight at the Olympic Auditorium in Los Angeles on June 10, 1976. It wasn’t exactly on the undercard but it literally stole the show that night. It was one of those unexpected events that just make a life long impression on you.

I had a fight scheduled that night with an opponent whose name I can no longer recall, if I ever knew it at all. Just minutes before I was scheduled to fight it was called off. I don’t remember the reason. I got dressed and Mel Epstein and I went upstairs to get a seat and watch the fight. There was a section set up for managers, trainers and boxers and those that were involved closely with boxing. Not to far from that was a gambler’s area. This is where the unplanned co-main event took place.

Mel and I found a seat. To be perfectly honest I can’t remember if it was during the main event or if it was on the undercard. I’m thinking the undercard because if I remember correctly we hung around for a bit. At any rate while watching the fight, we couldn’t help but notice some commotion breaking out where all the gambler’s were seated. There were two men arguing over money. One man was older and he appeared to be in his sixties. He was wearing a hat and one of those cheap suits that seemed prevalent with the downtown crowd back in those days. It was dark and made from cheap fabric. The suit appeared to be old and worn. The man was either Mexican or Filipino, I couldn’t tell and neither could Mel. Mel said he recognized the man but could not place him.

The other man was much younger, probably in his late twenties and he was about to learn a valuable lesson that night, much to the delight of the crowd. The younger man was seated directly behind the older man. He was also seated a little higher due to the amphitheater style seating at the Olympic. They were making enough of a fuss so that the lighting man put the spot light on them. The whole arena was watching the argument unfold.

The older man wanted the money he had won, and the younger guy either felt like teasing him or had no intention of paying off the bet. In the end it didn’t really matter. The young guy was standing up and holding the money with his right hand, just out of reach of the old timer. When he jumped up to get the money the younger man would pull it back and laugh. So did his friends. This happened several times when without any warning or provocation, the younger man threw a sloppy left hand. Instantly and so unexpectedly the old timer countered with a quick, hard right hand to the jaw followed by a left hook. He knocked the guy out. He reached down, took the money, counted it and put it in his coat pocket. With the spotlight still on both of them the whole arena was going crazy. Not knowing what was going on in the crowd I’m sure the fighters in the ring thought the crowd was cheering their fight.

The old man looked out at the crowd and let out a big grin, then, probably figuring he better get the hell out of there, he walked over to the tunnel. Just before he walked down the stairs he looked at the crowd and let go of a few punches in the air, enjoying the moment. The crowd roared as if he had just won a title. He disappeared down the stairs. Whoever he was, he was the talk of the night. He was the main event of the evening.

Great story!! Those are the kind of tiffs we'd have in Oklahoma City - just a couple of guys pissed off - no riots or anything. O'Grady would roll over in his grave for me writing this, but a couple of times the fight in the crowd was the best fight of the night . . .

[raylawpc]

"The dumb bastid . . ."

-Mel Epstein's reference to a boxer who has fallen in love.

You got that right Rick. Mel hated them broads with a passion. He had a few choice words for them but I won't repeat them here.

To tell the truth, both Mel and Johnny were almost dead on right. A girl can rob a guy of his boxing career, not always on purpose but it happens. In some case maybe it saved their lives. who knows.

Whatever the outcome, Mel hated them. I wonder (with the exception of Aileen Eaton) what Mel would think of women in boxing today?

The spirit of Johnny Flores, Mel Epstein and all the long gone and almost forgotten fighters and characters, of the past live on in these pages and in our memories.

Randy

O'Grady was the same way except when it came to his son. I think he lived a bit through Sean, and always seemed to enjoy it when Sean had some hot new girlfriend. At least, he never called Sean a "dumb bastard."

[raylawpc]

Rick, are you still lighitng that Jennifer Love Hewitt show? That kind of show isn't really my cup of tea, but I watched a bit of it the other night and thought the lighting looked good (not that I'm an expert on lighting, but it looked good to this layman!)

[CNorkusJr]

The last few posts were interesting. Oklahoma- you would be in for a treat at any NY fighting venue-especially if the promoter squares off the card with one ethnic group versus another. John Duddy fights here take on a great meaning now. Its seems Madison Square Garden enjoys putting on cards now that coincide with the various ethnic parades here in NY City. For instance, The garden puts on an Irish show on or night before St Patricks day (Lately, look at John Duddys dates in NY). A Puerto Rican card on or eve of Puerto Rico Day Parade, etc etc. Most of their opponents are usually some other ethnic group. Always huge security on and, and now NYC Police Officers send a contingency too. Nevertheless, fists are going to fly in crowd.
Its like the venue is going out of its way to put this type of collision on track.

A boxer gets a handful of tickets to sell and everyone in his party sits in one giant area. His opponent gets his tickets and it never fails to see that his section is right next to his opponents section. If your not part of either side, and your real close, you are collaterial damage. LOL.

[CNorkusJr]

Willie Pastrano was a notorious skirt chaser. Preferred the broads over training any day. I'm sure Angelo Dundee has his hands full. Pastrano was one of the best light heavies ever.

[raylawpc]

The last few posts were interesting. Oklahoma- you would be in for a treat at any NY fighting venue-especially if the promoter squares off the card with one ethnic group versus another. John Duddy fights here take on a great meaning now. Its seems Madison Square Garden enjoys putting on cards now that coincide with the various ethnic parades here in NY City. For instance, The garden puts on an Irish show on or night before St Patricks day (Lately, look at John Duddys dates in NY). A Puerto Rican card on or eve of Puerto Rico Day Parade, etc etc. Most of their opponents are usually some other ethnic group. Always huge security on and, and now NYC Police Officers send a contingency too. Nevertheless, fists are going to fly in crowd.
Its like the venue is going out of its way to put this type of collision on track.

A boxer gets a handful of tickets to sell and everyone in his party sits in one giant area. His opponent gets his tickets and it never fails to see that his section is right next to his opponents section. If your not part of either side, and your real close, you are collaterial damage. LOL.

Yes, except I don't own a bullet-proof vest or kelvar underwear . . .

[Randyman]

I think we're at the end of the line with our dog Lucky. She seems to be in pain and has pretty much stopped walking. She's barked in pain a few times for no apparent reason. She just lays down and has not eaten anything today. We're taking her to the vet tomorrow. I'm hoping that it may be something temporary but my gut feeling is that she is preparing herself for death. I can see it in her eyes when she looks at me. We'll see what happens tomorrow. The photo was taken a few months ago.

Randy

[raylawpc]

I feel your pain, Randy. We had to put our 18-year-old Westie to sleep in early 2009.

[THEHAMMER321]

Anybody on here remember a guy named Champ Thomas, I read some articles by him back in the 1980s in some of the boxing magazines, if so can you tell me a little about him.

[THEHAMMER321]

Willie Pastrano was a notorious skirt chaser. Preferred the broads over training any day. I'm sure Angelo Dundee has his hands full. Pastrano was one of the best light heavies ever.

My late father who was from New Orleans and also a fellow Italian, was friendly with Willie and also new Ralph Dupas, but he told me he thought the best of the New Orleans fighters was Bernard Ducussen who fought Sugar Ray Robinson, problem was my Father told me was he liked the ''broads''.

[raylawpc]

Anybody on here remember a guy named Champ Thomas, I read some articles by him back in the 1980s in some of the boxing magazines, if so can you tell me a little about him.

Champ Thomas - dang! That's a name from the past. Pat O'Grady knew him and I think I met him once. He had a few fighters, I think. (I can't remember who . . .) I think Champ and Tony Gardner were friends too - but I really can't remember. I know he wrote a handful of "How To" books on boxing that he published himself.

I wish I could remember more, but I can't.

[THEHAMMER321]

Anybody on here remember a guy named Champ Thomas, I read some articles by him back in the 1980s in some of the boxing magazines, if so can you tell me a little about him.

Champ Thomas - dang! That's a name from the past. Pat O'Grady knew him and I think I met him once. He had a few fighters, I think. (I can't remember who . . .) I think Champ and Tony Gardner were friends too - but I really can't remember. I know he wrote a handful of "How To" books on boxing that he published himself.

I wish I could remember more, but I can't.

That's funny because one of the articles I read talked about Pat O'grady.

[kikibalt]

Anybody on here remember a guy named Champ Thomas, I read some articles by him back in the 1980s in some of the boxing magazines, if so can you tell me a little about him.

Champ Thomas - dang! That's a name from the past. Pat O'Grady knew him and I think I met him once. He had a few fighters, I think. (I can't remember who . . .) I think Champ and Tony Gardner were friends too - but I really can't remember. I know he wrote a handful of "How To" books on boxing that he published himself.

I wish I could remember more, but I can't.

That's funny because one of the articles I read talked about Pat O'grady.

Wasn't Champ Thomas with Pat O'Grady when O'Grady put the his organization (WWA?) together?. Thomas out here in the left coast was looked as a joke.

[raylawpc]

Champ Thomas - dang! That's a name from the past. Pat O'Grady knew him and I think I met him once. He had a few fighters, I think. (I can't remember who . . .) I think Champ and Tony Gardner were friends too - but I really can't remember. I know he wrote a handful of "How To" books on boxing that he published himself.

I wish I could remember more, but I can't.

That's funny because one of the articles I read talked about Pat O'grady.

Wasn't Champ Thomas with Pat O'Grady when O'Grady put the his organization (WWA?) together?. Thomas out here in the left coast was looked as a joke.

Yeah, now that you mention it, wasn't he the chairman or something? I wasn't involved with O'Grady's promotions at the time (thank God! - that WAA was the most hairbrained idea Pat ever had). Was Thomas located out there in LA?

I wish I could remember more about him.

[raylawpc]

Anybody on here remember a guy named Champ Thomas, I read some articles by him back in the 1980s in some of the boxing magazines, if so can you tell me a little about him.

Champ Thomas - dang! That's a name from the past. Pat O'Grady knew him and I think I met him once. He had a few fighters, I think. (I can't remember who . . .) I think Champ and Tony Gardner were friends too - but I really can't remember. I know he wrote a handful of "How To" books on boxing that he published himself.

I wish I could remember more, but I can't.

That's funny because one of the articles I read talked about Pat O'grady.

Oh yeah! They were buddies. Pat talked about him, but I don't think he came out to Oklahoma City much. If I ever met him it was only once or twice.

[kikibalt]

That's funny because one of the articles I read talked about Pat O'grady.

Wasn't Champ Thomas with Pat O'Grady when O'Grady put the his organization (WWA?) together?. Thomas out here in the left coast was looked as a joke.

Yeah, now that you mention it, wasn't he the chairman or something? I wasn't involved with O'Grady's promotions at the time (thank God! - that WAA was the most hairbrained idea Pat ever had). Was Thomas located out there in LA?

I wish I could remember more about him.

As far as I know he was not located in LA., it just what was know about him, that made people not to take him seriously.

[Rick Farris]

Charley Norkus and director Otto Preminger on set of "Advise and Consent" 1961.

Preminger was a huge boxing fan, and attended many of my fathers fights.

Hey Chuck . . . Great photo of your dad with the legendary director. Yes, he was huige boxing fan.
I remember he was intereviewed by Mickey Davies on TV before an Olympic main event in 1966.
He had just finished filming "Hurry Sundown", a film my uncle worked on.

-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

Rick, are you still lighitng that Jennifer Love Hewitt show? That kind of show isn't really my cup of tea, but I watched a bit of it the other night and thought the lighting looked good (not that I'm an expert on lighting, but it looked good to this layman!)

Tom . . . No, Ghost Whisperer is on hiatus at the moment, until after July 4th. I did the last three episodes of the season, not long ago. I was also working Desperate Housewives, which is also on hiatus for a couple of months. I'm working on feature film titled "Ihop". It's a partially animated/live action feature film with no big names. With a $75 million budget, it's considered "low budget" by today's standards. If you saw the last episode of Desperate Housewives last night, that was my lighting. I'll likely remain involved with both productions in the coming season. "Love" as she's called on the set, is not only the lead actress and focus in the series, she's also one of the producers. I like her, a real pro, a beautiful woman. She's very cool.


-Rick Farris

[Rick Farris]

"The dumb bastid . . ."

-Mel Epstein's reference to a boxer who has fallen in love.

You got that right Rick. Mel hated them broads with a passion. He had a few choice words for them but I won't repeat them here.

To tell the truth, both Mel and Johnny were almost dead on right. A girl can rob a guy of his boxing career, not always on purpose but it happens. In some case maybe it saved their lives. who knows.

Whatever the outcome, Mel hated them. I wonder (with the exception of Aileen Eaton) what Mel would think of women in boxing today?

The spirit of Johnny Flores, Mel Epstein and all the long gone and almost forgotten fighters and characters, of the past live on in these pages and in our memories.

Randy

O'Grady was the same way except when it came to his son. I think he lived a bit through Sean, and always seemed to enjoy it when Sean had some hot new girlfriend. At least, he never called Sean a "dumb bastard."

Tom . . . I remember seeing Sean's sisters on TV sitting ringside for his fights. Very good looking family. I'm sure Sean did well with the ladies. Good looking, smart guy. I still say he is the best ringside analyst, somebody HBO would be smart to hire. A perfect replacement for any of the HBO crew. I hope he's at the CBHOF lunch in June. If so, I want to meet him.