Chuvalo-Ali the old fashioned way, 45 rounds.

[yancey]

Who prevails?

What would be Ali's strategy?

[HomicideHenry]

I'm assuming along with the 45 rounds that theres 3-5 oz gloves and no mouth pieces... given both men's conditioning and toughness, this match would eventually be determined by tactical flaws in the boxers... ali could not dance and be fast for all 45 rounds; hell he never danced for a full 15! imho ali would have to resort to being an infighter, and that was his weakness... however would the state of chuvalo's face be well enough to stand up to the task to bang toe to toe with ali after 20+ rounds where ali out boxed him? imo around the 35th to 40th round the tide would fall to chuvalo's favor...

[yancey]

I'm assuming along with the 45 rounds that theres 3-5 oz gloves and no mouth pieces... given both men's conditioning and toughness, this match would eventually be determined by tactical flaws in the boxers... ali could not dance and be fast for all 45 rounds; hell he never danced for a full 15! imho ali would have to resort to being an infighter, and that was his weakness... however would the state of chuvalo's face be well enough to stand up to the task to bang toe to toe with ali after 20+ rounds where ali out boxed him? imo around the 35th to 40th round the tide would fall to chuvalo's favor...

Good analysis.

Ali would be in a tough spot with this one. He can't stick and move the entire 45. He can't knock Chuvalo out. Infighting works to Chuvalo's advantage.

I see Chuvalo's face holding up and the tide turning his way by the 25th, quite possibly earlier.

[hitman09]

I think Ali wins the vast majority of the first 30 rounds, and does enough to win a decision, though not with a great deal of certainty. There are a lot of variables to consider.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I cannot see a way to be anywhere close to sure on how this ends up.

[dempseyfire]

Chuvalo could keep up a good pace but it was never a great pace. Ali would smartly know when to take rounds off and when to come on and win a solid decision. Corbett wasn't a great infighter either but he had success in 'the old fashioned way'.

[yancey]

Chuvalo wouldn't need a "great" pace in this one.

A steady pace, bang away at the body, protect your face as best as possible, don't let Ali take rounds off, hope and believe that Ali fades badly after the half-way point.

That would be the formula for George.

I think Ali's best bet in this one is a stoppage on cuts. Otherwise, there is a good chance the tortoise takes the hare in this one.

[Mr E]

Chuvalo was a super tough dude but Ali had better cardio. It would be Chuvalo, not Ali, who ran out of gas at the end.

[Darling]

How about Joe Frazier vs Randall Cobb over the same distance?

I see Joe winning every one of the first 15 rounds but the concrete head of Tex keeps him in the fight and then the tide turns.

Frazier saved by the ref in round 27 as he is being battered against the ropes...

[Goodnight, Irene]

How about Joe Frazier vs Randall Cobb over the same distance?

I see Joe winning every one of the first 15 rounds but the concrete head of Tex keeps him in the fight and then the tide turns.

Frazier saved by the ref in round 27 as he is being battered against the ropes...

Sad night for Cobb. Frazier is a thousand times better, & go all day, all night. Got a motor which won't quit, see. Cobb dies in the ring after his ribs can no longer support his frame. He collapses like an Octopus onto the ringmat, whereupon he is scraped up with a spade.

[jaclem2]

..even before the end of his career ali's kidneys were going bad...(pacheco said they were shot by the time he fought holmes)..the result of all that hand jive with letting some guys pound at his body and showing the crowd he wasn't hurt. he did this a lot in the durando fights, and i think ali might be pissing blood into his foul cup around the 20th round. ali always did find a way to win, but i think he's the underdog in this one.

[yancey]

How about Joe Frazier vs Randall Cobb over the same distance?

I see Joe winning every one of the first 15 rounds but the concrete head of Tex keeps him in the fight and then the tide turns.

Frazier saved by the ref in round 27 as he is being battered against the ropes...

Sad night for Cobb. Frazier is a thousand times better, & go all day, all night. Got a motor which won't quit, see. Cobb dies in the ring after his ribs can no longer support his frame. He collapses like an Octopus onto the ringmat, whereupon he is scraped up with a spade.

DD

Always liked ol' Tex, but that final image you present is funny.

[jaclem2]

...some thoughts on ali-chuvalo.....punches to the face show quicker and more visible damage than punches to the body. against chuvalo ali ali was cutting up chuvalo's face but chuvalo was
landing a lot of body punches that judges don't seem to count. in the long run who really took the most punishment in those fights? it's a cliche but comparing the fighters now raises the possibility that ali won the battles but chuvalo won the war.

[dempseyfire]

...some thoughts on ali-chuvalo.....punches to the face show quicker and more visible damage than punches to the body. against chuvalo ali ali was cutting up chuvalo's face but chuvalo was
landing a lot of body punches that judges don't seem to count. in the long run who really took the most punishment in those fights? it's a cliche but comparing the fighters now raises the possibility that ali won the battles but chuvalo won the war.

Come on, that's a BS comparison. Chuvalo by the gift of God and some odd genetic code doesn't show considerable brain damage in his old age.

The slower pace that would accompany a 45 round fight would actually favor Ali here. Chuvalo wouldn't be bullrushing in as much and thus not get as many punches off to the body. Ali also wouldn't be willingly giving his body to George as he did in their first fight to psyche him out, knowing the greater duration. Meanwhile by round 20 I'd be surprised if Chuvalo would even be able to see anymore. If Chuvalo were a huge one shot hitter a la Williard I'd give him a better chance or an athletic marvel like Jefferies, but lacking those attributes the longer pace just ensures a longer beating.

[jaclem2]

..actually it's not a bs comparison but a very good one. this does not negate the fact that you have made some good arguments on the other side.

[Robinson]

Chuvalo lived a clean life. Partying, and 'living it up' while
being a pro athlete burns the candle at both ends.

Bad genetics aside, who knows what Ali did in his social
life.

In any case, suggesting that 'Chuvalo lost the battles,
but won the war.' is silly.

[raylawpc]

...some thoughts on ali-chuvalo.....punches to the face show quicker and more visible damage than punches to the body. against chuvalo ali ali was cutting up chuvalo's face but chuvalo was
landing a lot of body punches that judges don't seem to count. in the long run who really took the most punishment in those fights? it's a cliche but comparing the fighters now raises the possibility that ali won the battles but chuvalo won the war.

Come on, that's a BS comparison. Chuvalo by the gift of God and some odd genetic code doesn't show considerable brain damage in his old age.

The slower pace that would accompany a 45 round fight would actually favor Ali here. Chuvalo wouldn't be bullrushing in as much and thus not get as many punches off to the body. Ali also wouldn't be willingly giving his body to George as he did in their first fight to psyche him out, knowing the greater duration. Meanwhile by round 20 I'd be surprised if Chuvalo would even be able to see anymore. If Chuvalo were a huge one shot hitter a la Williard I'd give him a better chance or an athletic marvel like Jefferies, but lacking those attributes the longer pace just ensures a longer beating.

Longer fights do not always translate into a slower pace. When Jeffries fought Sharkey at Coney Island in 1899, ringsiders marveled at the pace set by the fighters over 25 rounds (and in particular under those hot, hot ring lights). Even in the glimpes we have of the fight through the bootleg "hatbox" camera, we can see they are fighting at a good pace. Many of the men who saw that fight and lived into the Louis-Marciano eras called it the most exciting heavyweight championship fight they ever saw.

[jaclem2]

..dempsey...you've got the better of me....i can't think of any fighter named willard who had great one shot power. could this be his first name? whatever, i'm stumped. :?? :?? :?? :?? :?? :??

[ThatOne]

...some thoughts on ali-chuvalo.....punches to the face show quicker and more visible damage than punches to the body. against chuvalo ali ali was cutting up chuvalo's face but chuvalo was
landing a lot of body punches that judges don't seem to count. in the long run who really took the most punishment in those fights? it's a cliche but comparing the fighters now raises the possibility that ali won the battles but chuvalo won the war.

The refs must have totally ignored body shots because Chuvalo lost the twenty seven rounds he fought Ali , 24-3 or so.

Instead of rendering verdicts immediately after the fight maybe we should wait forty years and give the combatants neurological exams and determine the winner by who shows the least deficits.

By that metric Archie Moore and Jake LaMotta probably never lost a fight.

[yancey]

...some thoughts on ali-chuvalo.....punches to the face show quicker and more visible damage than punches to the body. against chuvalo ali ali was cutting up chuvalo's face but chuvalo was
landing a lot of body punches that judges don't seem to count. in the long run who really took the most punishment in those fights? it's a cliche but comparing the fighters now raises the possibility that ali won the battles but chuvalo won the war.

"Instead of rendering verdicts immediately after the fight maybe we should wait forty years and give the combatants neurological exams and determine the winner by who shows the least deficits." ThatOne


Seems like an interesting idea to me. Maybe most applicable when assessing a trilogy.

[ThatOne]

...some thoughts on ali-chuvalo.....punches to the face show quicker and more visible damage than punches to the body. against chuvalo ali ali was cutting up chuvalo's face but chuvalo was
landing a lot of body punches that judges don't seem to count. in the long run who really took the most punishment in those fights? it's a cliche but comparing the fighters now raises the possibility that ali won the battles but chuvalo won the war.

"Instead of rendering verdicts immediately after the fight maybe we should wait forty years and give the combatants neurological exams and determine the winner by who shows the least deficits." ThatOne


Seems like an interesting idea to me. Maybe most applicable when assessing a trilogy.

"Great men die twice, once as men and once as great"

[Goodnight, Irene]

...some thoughts on ali-chuvalo.....punches to the face show quicker and more visible damage than punches to the body. against chuvalo ali ali was cutting up chuvalo's face but chuvalo was
landing a lot of body punches that judges don't seem to count. in the long run who really took the most punishment in those fights? it's a cliche but comparing the fighters now raises the possibility that ali won the battles but chuvalo won the war.

"Instead of rendering verdicts immediately after the fight maybe we should wait forty years and give the combatants neurological exams and determine the winner by who shows the least deficits." ThatOne


Seems like an interesting idea to me. Maybe most applicable when assessing a trilogy.

A punch below the belt from the Frazier contingent, LOL.

[jaclem2]

...at no point did i say chuvalo won those fights, because he didn't. he was completely outscored and beaten by ali.

I haven't done it in a long time, but in the past i've taught remedial reading. i don't know how i'd do it though by email. sorry guys.

..and thank you irene. ;;-)