Did Sinan-Samil Sam begin the downfall of Danny Williams ?

[Quixall]

Did Sinan-Samil Sam effectively begin the downfall of Danny Williams ?

I know that Williams had lost to Julius Francis earlier in his career, but that was on points, where as the Sam defeat was the first time that Williams had been stopped in a fight. Williams always struck me as being a little gun shy and looked as if he was reluctant at times to let the bombs go and i wonder whether that defeat to Sinan-Samil Sam was the start of it. Williams was the favourite to win that fight, though at the time Sinan-Samil Sam was an unkown quantity and maybe Williams took him too lightly. I always felt that Williams never reached his full potentilal and seemed to suffer a crises of confidence quite a few times in his career. Whilst he beat a shot Tyson and got bashed up by Vitali Klitschko for the world title, i feel that Williams will be remembered as the nearly man, who for differing reasons couldn't realise his true potential. He had some disastrous losses, such as to Audley Harrison and the embaressing prize fighter defeat to a virtual nobody and i feel in some way, that they will live longer in the memory than his good performances. Williams was technically quite gifted, had fast hands and looked the ideal build to be a force earlier on in his career, so it's a shame that it petered out over the years and finished with that pitiful performance against Derek Chisora

Anyone like to make a comment ?

[Jon Saxon]

Did Sinan-Samil Sam effectively begin the downfall of Danny Williams ?

I know that Williams had lost to Julius Francis earlier in his career, but that was on points, where as the Sam defeat was the first time that Williams had been stopped in a fight. Williams always struck me as being a little gun shy and looked as if he was reluctant at times to let the bombs go and i wonder whether that defeat to Sinan-Samil Sam was the start of it. Williams was the favourite to win that fight, though at the time Sinan-Samil Sam was an unkown quantity and maybe Williams took him too lightly. I always felt that Williams never reached his full potentilal and seemed to suffer a crises of confidence quite a few times in his career. Whilst he beat a shot Tyson and got bashed up by Vitali Klitschko for the world title, i feel that Williams will be remembered as the nearly man, who for differing reasons couldn't realise his true potential. He had some disastrous losses, such as to Audley Harrison and the embaressing prize fighter defeat to a virtual nobody and i feel in some way, that they will live longer in the memory than his good performances. Williams was technically quite gifted, had fast hands and looked the ideal build to be a force earlier on in his career, so it's a shame that it petered out over the years and finished with that pitiful performance against Derek Chisora

Anyone like to make a comment ?

Yes.. you are spot on Quix, thought Danny boxed good that night he was simply overpowered that night, his doubl jab was great on the night but he found out that he didnt have it at world level (Sam was barely Euro level)


Funny I was thinking about this very fight the other day.

[Quixall]

Hey Jon, How are you ?

Good to see you

That Sam fight always sticks in the memory !!

Do you still go on the pound ? BigMark was saying that Champ4ever has gone missing ?

[Jon Saxon]

Hey Jon, How are you ?

Good to see you

That Sam fight always sticks in the memory !!

Do you still go on the pound ? BigMark was saying that Champ4ever has gone missing ?

Good to see you too.

Yes I do use the pound, champ has dissapeared but Im sure he will be back.

[tobyh5]

I always thought the downfall was due to his severe lack of self confidence and the nerves that he often gave in to.

Tough, brave, big, skilled but some terrible nerves before fights, low self belief at times and a total lack of dedication

[whiskey]

Samil Sam must have passed Danny an incredible recipe for pies after their fight.

If true, then yes he did begin the downfall.

Joking aside, his attitude to his conditioning spoke volumes about his interest in the sport towards the end. I think he struck gold with the Tyson win and it re-injected life back into him.

If he got dusted by Tyson and didn't get that amazing exposure, then I think he would have retired much sooner than he did.

[chris s]

The decline started in the Tyson fight when he took a fearful beating in thre first 5 mins. It was a superhuman effort in towin that. By the time he fought Klitschko four months later he was on the slide and that battering finished him off. The corner were far too brave that night

[Quixall]

The decline started in the Tyson fight when he took a fearful beating in thre first 5 mins. It was a superhuman effort in towin that. By the time he fought Klitschko four months later he was on the slide and that battering finished him off. The corner were far too brave that night

I personally think that Danny's confidence issues started with the Sinan-Samil Sam fight, but i would agree with you that he shipped way too much punishment against Kilitschko and that had a dramatic effect on him. Pesronally, i think he should have retired after the Klitschko loss

[Quixall]

One thing for sure is Danny has always lacked self belief and is i'm led to believe P4P king when it comes to suffering from nerves before a fight.

I think it was Ricky Hatton who once said Danny was the most nervous person he had ever seen before a fight when they were on the same bill in the USA. i think it was the Hamed-Kelly fight?

And Hamed would have been the coolest...........

Lennox was super cool before fights. I looked more nervous thsn him and i was only watching

[chris s]

The decline started in the Tyson fight when he took a fearful beating in thre first 5 mins. It was a superhuman effort in towin that. By the time he fought Klitschko four months later he was on the slide and that battering finished him off. The corner were far too brave that night

I personally think that Danny's confidence issues started with the Sinan-Samil Sam fight, but i would agree with you that he shipped way too much punishment against Kilitschko and that had a dramatic effect on him. Pesronally, i think he should have retired after the Klitschko loss

For sure Quixall

[jameswilson]

I was actually suprised myself looking back over Danny's career and seeing his weight as I thought I remembered him turning up to fight Sam about a stone heavier than he had ever been before.

I think Danny's problem was the weight thing. Clearly he had an eating issue and clearly looking back over his career and the weights he turned up at showed that way before the Sam fight he had this problem and had the Sam fight not happened then it would have just happened against somebody else of similar calibre, later on down the road. He also seemed to have a bit of an issue mentally with his weight as in an interview I remember him saying after a weigh in 'oh this is a good weight for me, 260 means I am rested and havent been working my arse off tiring myself out' or words to that effect. Personally I think thats a load of rubbish and a good hard training camp with sparring and fitness work on the track and road leading to a weight under 240 would have seen much better performances from Danny. He probably wouldn't have beaten Klitschko no matter how hard he trained but there are some losses in there that may have been reversed with better training.

[orbtastic]

Are the rumours not entirely unsubstantiated that he would go AWOL in training?

[Phenomenal-Nutrition]

I think he had the talent to be a world class fighter. The nerves and discipline are what kept him from that

[Quixall]

I was actually suprised myself looking back over Danny's career and seeing his weight as I thought I remembered him turning up to fight Sam about a stone heavier than he had ever been before.

I think Danny's problem was the weight thing. Clearly he had an eating issue and clearly looking back over his career and the weights he turned up at showed that way before the Sam fight he had this problem and had the Sam fight not happened then it would have just happened against somebody else of similar calibre, later on down the road. He also seemed to have a bit of an issue mentally with his weight as in an interview I remember him saying after a weigh in 'oh this is a good weight for me, 260 means I am rested and havent been working my arse off tiring myself out' or words to that effect. Personally I think thats a load of rubbish and a good hard training camp with sparring and fitness work on the track and road leading to a weight under 240 would have seen much better performances from Danny. He probably wouldn't have beaten Klitschko no matter how hard he trained but there are some losses in there that may have been reversed with better training.

A lot of people have mentioned the weight issues regarding Danny and i too think that they played a part in some of his dire performances. It's a fact that good conditioning is paramount before ANY fight, not just against highre calibre fighters. I agree with you, that the defeat he experienced to Sinan Samil Sam would have happenned some where down the line with another opponent. Danny in some ways reminds me of Michael Grant, the guy that fought Lewis some time back. He did'nt seem a natural fighter, but looked like a college athlete that had chosen boxing because he could make a few quid in the heavyweight division. At the start of his career he was very self confident and at times a bit reckless and he started the fight with Lewis in the same way. However, after Lewis stopped him, he was never the same fighter again, his confidence had been shattered by that one defeat. Some years later he was decked by the first punch in a fight and looked like a scared kitten before the first bell had been sounded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhGReqwjzTs

[bfchunk]

I thought Ronald McDonald began the downfall of Danny Williams

[stujones]

The weight was Danny problem, but that night showed that Danny's chin wasn't quite as sturdy as people thought it was.

That caused the downfall in Danny, because it made Danny have the belief he could only compete with the strength of these guys (in absorbing punches) when he was big. This proved to be wrong cause it was when he was sub 17 stone, he never buckled.

Sam was really good that night. Despite Danny's bravery in his fights post that, it was the one in which I really lost the belief that he could ever become a world champion, cause he "lost it" from the opening bell. I remember Sam landing a nice jab and you could visibly see Danny thinking "oh fornicate". No one can dispute Danny's heart, but he bottled it during that fight.

Sam said in an honest interview, that he didn't know what really to expect before the opening bell, but knew he had him beat after the first round. He actually thought Julius was a tougher fight.

Sadly (in addition) that proved to be Sam's downfall, cause he just got fat and complacent after that. A damn good fighter was Sam.

Its hard to know how Danny would have reacted to big punches when younger. He was considered over the hill when he fought Tyson (I remember having a bit of debate with Bennie about his use of "veteran" in his build up to that fight). History would suggest that when he stepped up to European level his chin would be found wanting, expect for one inspired performance (and just one burst from Tyson). However, who knows what he would have been like had he been lighter and more active around the Kali Meehan fight.

[states]

Feel free to correct me here, but I always thought that Danny had been pushed into boxing by his Dad, and that deep down, his heart was never really in it.

I could be wrong, but I'm sure I read that a few years ago.

[Quixall]

Feel free to correct me here, but I always thought that Danny had been pushed into boxing by his Dad, and that deep down, his heart was never really in it.

I could be wrong, but I'm sure I read that a few years ago.

I couldn't confirm that story, but i definately wouldn't be suprised to hear that Danny's heart was NEVER in boxing

[n1ebf]

I think you're using that defeat to explain away a career?? ......I pretty much first heard of Danny on Grandstand in the build up to this fight, watching the clips of him I thought he was ace, and was surprsed as anyone when he got bashed about, floored, and stopped by Sam.
You can't use that to justify why he didn't win a world title.Tyson fight was an anomoly..... great win, but Tyson wasn't the same Tyson that became a household name.

Fact is Danny was good, very good, but say like Bruno or McCall, not quite good enough to come again and again and get there eventually. Danny could have beaten Sam and had just the same career imo. Besides which, if you apply your POV to other fighters then Bruno would never have been a world champ, or Pacman......or Ryan Rhodes...watch this space

[rhino222]

the sam fight was the first fight that danny showed a vulnerability as far as his equilibrium goes when tagged, he was off balance and his legs could not keep him up.

this showed again many times in dannys career.

so yes...i think the sam fight was the beginning of the end.

[punchers chance]

I think its a fair shout to say it was the beginning of the end because Danny looked capable of going into the top 10 in the world before that contest but after the shock loss (and the manner of it) he never seemed the same fighter.
The Tyson win was of course a great name on his record but Danny was never really in the mix with the elite heavyweights whereas before the Sam fight it was possible.
perhaps he was over-rated prior to the Sam bout so Sam was just the man in the right place to take advantage.

[Quixall]

I think you're using that defeat to explain away a career?? ......I pretty much first heard of Danny on Grandstand in the build up to this fight, watching the clips of him I thought he was ace, and was surprsed as anyone when he got bashed about, floored, and stopped by Sam.
You can't use that to justify why he didn't win a world title.Tyson fight was an anomoly..... great win, but Tyson wasn't the same Tyson that became a household name.

Fact is Danny was good, very good, but say like Bruno or McCall, not quite good enough to come again and again and get there eventually. Danny could have beaten Sam and had just the same career imo. Besides which, if you apply your POV to other fighters then Bruno would never have been a world champ, or Pacman......or Ryan Rhodes...watch this space

I'm not using it to justify Danny not winning a world title, i never stated anyything about a world title, other than he got bashed up by Vitali Klitschko. To me, Danny was never going to win a world title and i was suprised that he got the shot against Klitschko. My point was that Danny's confidence took a battering with the Sam fight and IMO it had a detrimental effect on his career. I simply don't agree when you think that Danny could have had the same careers as Bruno and McCall. Thoe two fighters were a couple of levels up from Danny.

[n1ebf]

I think you're using that defeat to explain away a career?? ......I pretty much first heard of Danny on Grandstand in the build up to this fight, watching the clips of him I thought he was ace, and was surprsed as anyone when he got bashed about, floored, and stopped by Sam.
You can't use that to justify why he didn't win a world title.Tyson fight was an anomoly..... great win, but Tyson wasn't the same Tyson that became a household name.

Fact is Danny was good, very good, but say like Bruno or McCall, not quite good enough to come again and again and get there eventually. Danny could have beaten Sam and had just the same career imo. Besides which, if you apply your POV to other fighters then Bruno would never have been a world champ, or Pacman......or Ryan Rhodes...watch this space

I'm not using it to justify Danny not winning a world title, i never stated anyything about a world title, other than he got bashed up by Vitali Klitschko. To me, Danny was never going to win a world title and i was suprised that he got the shot against Klitschko. My point was that Danny's confidence took a battering with the Sam fight and IMO it had a detrimental effect on his career. I simply don't agree when you think that Danny could have had the same careers as Bruno and McCall. Thoe two fighters were a couple of levels up from Danny.

you're misunderstanding me I'm not saying Dannywas as good as those 2 fighters. I don't think he was. If he was he'd have ben in the mix more at World level. Sam's probably geting underrated here. He was a good amateur, young and in good shape. He was simply too good for Danny that night. It doesn't explain Danny getting beat by Baker and Chisora. If he had the fudamentals he would have won a world title. He didn't possess them enough tho.

[n1ebf]

I thought Ronald McDonald began the downfall of Danny Williams

I'd have to take issue with that, it was Mr Kipling

[bennie]

At the end of it all Danny was good but not good enough. His win over Tyson just proves that every dog has its day.