Holyfield off to Germany?

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 29 Mar 2005, 05:53

Speaking of Cenzig, anyone know if the Sprott fight is still happening.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 29 Mar 2005, 05:55

stujones wrote:Speaking of Cenzig, anyone know if the Sprott fight is still happening.

should be april 26th card, but as the fights keep falling apart who knows...

1st Tsypko V Markussen was off, then the Lyackhovich pulled out

Freiheit · Post by **Freiheit** » 29 Mar 2005, 05:57

Sam fourght for Turkey as amateur so its a borderline case, I actually thought he was born in Turkey.

Koc vs Sprott is on the undercard of KLitschko vs Castillo on april the 23rd.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 29 Mar 2005, 05:59

this discussion starts again and again. Koc decided to fight for Germany (like e.g. Urkal), Sam for Turkey. They can do what they want. Tszyu fights for Australia, Lewis fought for GB and Canada and could have fought for Jamaika..........

Everybody should fight under the flag he wants to.

knockout · Post by **knockout** » 29 Mar 2005, 06:33

BubiScholz wrote:this discussion starts again and again. Koc decided to fight for Germany (like e.g. Urkal), Sam for Turkey. They can do what they want. Tszyu fights for Australia, Lewis fought for GB and Canada and could have fought for Jamaika..........

Everybody should fight under the flag he wants to.

it is a funny subject.... personally i will never see Tszyu as an Aussie.... Koc and Sam are German in my eyes as they were born and raised there.
Lewis born and raised in London so no problem for him fighting for GB....

the problems come with people like Saif Saeed a kenyan born, raised and trained until he becomes the best runner in the world, then he moves to Qatar...

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 29 Mar 2005, 06:41

Up until recently, I was one of many who was calling for Holyfield to retire, and for his license to be revoked etc, then I talked to an American light heavyweight fighter and had an interesting talk with him regarding Holyfield.

It appears that Holyfield has some serious money issues, in no small part due to the numerous children he has had out of wedlock, plus other payments to former wives. He has also made some very poor business decisions and as we all know the IRS in the states

Boxing is his chosen trade, and he is well aware of the concommitent risks. So long as he passes the medicals and they are carried out thoroughly, he has as much right to fight as anyone else.

Fans and sports writers are comparing him to what he was, but the fact is there are scores of fighters out there in worse physical shape who are licensed to fight. Evander isn't taking any real beatings so why should he be stopped from fighting.

Just because someone was once a world champion, doesn't mean that they should be prevented from plying their trade. It's somewhat unfair of boxing fans to demand that someone be stopped from fighting just because they were once something special.

Having said that, what does worry me is that medical commissions will 'rig' Holyfield's medicals to allow him to pass when something suspicious shows up.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 29 Mar 2005, 07:01

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Up until recently, I was one of many who was calling for Holyfield to retire, and for his license to be revoked etc, then I talked to an American light heavyweight fighter and had an interesting talk with him regarding Holyfield.

It appears that Holyfield has some serious money issues, in no small part due to the numerous children he has had out of wedlock, plus other payments to former wives. He has also made some very poor business decisions and as we all know the IRS in the states

Boxing is his chosen trade, and he is well aware of the concommitent risks. So long as he passes the medicals and they are carried out thoroughly, he has as much right to fight as anyone else.

Fans and sports writers are comparing him to what he was, but the fact is there are scores of fighters out there in worse physical shape who are licensed to fight. Evander isn't taking any real beatings so why should he be stopped from fighting.

Just because someone was once a world champion, doesn't mean that they should be prevented from plying their trade. It's somewhat unfair of boxing fans to demand that someone be stopped from fighting just because they were once something special.

Having said that, what does worry me is that medical commissions will 'rig' Holyfield's medicals to allow him to pass when something suspicious shows up.

Excellent post James, my sentiments exactly on this matter. Although to add what ever reasons Holyfield's are to continue (whether it is for financial or sheer enjoyment) shouldn't have a bearing. It is his trade.

It would be interesting if we did a poll on who people would rather see back in the Ring, Holyfield or Foreman. I wouldn't be surprised if more people would rather see Foreman back.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 29 Mar 2005, 07:34

knockout wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:this discussion starts again and again. Koc decided to fight for Germany (like e.g. Urkal), Sam for Turkey. They can do what they want. Tszyu fights for Australia, Lewis fought for GB and Canada and could have fought for Jamaika..........

Everybody should fight under the flag he wants to.
it is a funny subject.... personally i will never see Tszyu as an Aussie.... Koc and Sam are German in my eyes as they were born and raised there.
Lewis born and raised in London so no problem for him fighting for GB....

the problems come with people like Saif Saeed a kenyan born, raised and trained until he becomes the best runner in the world, then he moves to Qatar...

.....only for money. That´s debatable. You should at least have a connection to the country.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 29 Mar 2005, 08:04

stujones wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:Up until recently, I was one of many who was calling for Holyfield to retire, and for his license to be revoked etc, then I talked to an American light heavyweight fighter and had an interesting talk with him regarding Holyfield.

It appears that Holyfield has some serious money issues, in no small part due to the numerous children he has had out of wedlock, plus other payments to former wives. He has also made some very poor business decisions and as we all know the IRS in the states

Boxing is his chosen trade, and he is well aware of the concommitent risks. So long as he passes the medicals and they are carried out thoroughly, he has as much right to fight as anyone else.

Fans and sports writers are comparing him to what he was, but the fact is there are scores of fighters out there in worse physical shape who are licensed to fight. Evander isn't taking any real beatings so why should he be stopped from fighting.

Just because someone was once a world champion, doesn't mean that they should be prevented from plying their trade. It's somewhat unfair of boxing fans to demand that someone be stopped from fighting just because they were once something special.

Having said that, what does worry me is that medical commissions will 'rig' Holyfield's medicals to allow him to pass when something suspicious shows up.
Excellent post James, my sentiments exactly on this matter. Although to add what ever reasons Holyfield's are to continue (whether it is for financial or sheer enjoyment) shouldn't have a bearing. It is his trade.

It would be interesting if we did a poll on who people would rather see back in the Ring, Holyfield or Foreman. I wouldn't be surprised if more people would rather see Foreman back.

It took talking to a fighter to realise that my sentiments previously, were based on notions of the sadness of seing a once great fighter on the slide.

We may see boxing as a noble but savage ballet, but to a professional fighter it is simply a brutal trade, a hard and dangerous way to make a living. Writing about boxing is ephemeral and abstract, but for the people who do it for a living it's a physical reality. Big big difference, and totally differing perspectives.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 29 Mar 2005, 09:33

James, on the other side it is hard to watch a guy who was the best heavy 10 years ago now when he is done. Regarding his financial problems there are also some jobs in Boxing to earn money e.g. Sports Commentator, Coach, Promoter etc.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 29 Mar 2005, 10:25

Errr, commentator, have you heard him speak these days? And who says anyone is offering him a job. Who says he would be any good as a coach or trainer and being a promoter is not just something you walk into, you need a very good business brain to do that.

It's not like any of those are going to earn him a fast buck either.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 29 Mar 2005, 10:30

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Errr, commentator, have you heard him speak these days? And who says anyone is offering him a job. Who says he would be any good as a coach or trainer and being a promoter is not just something you walk into, you need a very good business brain to do that.

It's not like any of those are going to earn him a fast buck either.

I don´t know how good he would be in other positions. But fighting till his 45th bithday makes him ridiculuos. His last fight was a farce and his purses will fall down. another year and he will fight like Julius Francis. He will fight for 5000 $ in Cuxhaven vs a russian heavyweight hope......sad.

HeavyHitters · Post by **HeavyHitters** » 29 Mar 2005, 13:13

What Holyfield should do then, if he needs cash.... He should fight the 2nd tier heavyweights ( and maybe 3rd tier also ). Guys like Kevin McBride, Najee Shaheed, Jeremy Williams, David Bostice, China Smith, Dickie Ryan, Andy Sample, etc....

He could fight each of them for like $50,000 to $100,000, get on ESPN or Fox or ABC or HBO, get some easy wins under his belt, with little risk at all to his health. And after maybe 8 or 9 victories in a row, with 7 or 8 knockouts ( knockouts which he hasn't too many of in 6 or 7 years ), then he might even get a title shot, just for staying active and winning. Can you imagine what the generic boxing public would say if Holyfield pulled off 10 KO victories in a row...?

Sure, some would say "big deal, look at the weak opposition he faced"..... But hey, these days 10 wins in a row mean more to the bogus belt sanctions than who you fought to get those wins. I mean, come on, look at Kali Meehan and Lamon Brewster, and a few other fringe contenders..... Ugh!!

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 29 Mar 2005, 13:14

I agree HeavyHitters, but Holyfield lost to a fighter on that level (IMO) last time out.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 30 Mar 2005, 07:55

stujones wrote:I agree HeavyHitters, but Holyfield lost to a fighter on that level (IMO) last time out.

this is what i also said. who will pay 100,000 $ for him? Shows where the "All American Cocksucker" appears?

J · Post by J » 30 Mar 2005, 08:04

i didnt know George bush boxed bubi?

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 30 Mar 2005, 08:08

yup, he comes out of Calloway's ass.

Rhialtho · Post by **Rhialtho** » 30 Mar 2005, 18:02

knockout wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:this discussion starts again and again. Koc decided to fight for Germany (like e.g. Urkal), Sam for Turkey. They can do what they want. Tszyu fights for Australia, Lewis fought for GB and Canada and could have fought for Jamaika..........

Everybody should fight under the flag he wants to.
it is a funny subject.... personally i will never see Tszyu as an Aussie.... Koc and Sam are German in my eyes as they were born and raised there.
Lewis born and raised in London so no problem for him fighting for GB....

the problems come with people like Saif Saeed a kenyan born, raised and trained until he becomes the best runner in the world, then he moves to Qatar...

Sam didnt grew up in Germany. He was born there,but can hardly speak any German. As for Coc he isnt German either though he has a German passport.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 07 Apr 2005, 08:36

Rhialtho wrote:
knockout wrote:
BubiScholz wrote:this discussion starts again and again. Koc decided to fight for Germany (like e.g. Urkal), Sam for Turkey. They can do what they want. Tszyu fights for Australia, Lewis fought for GB and Canada and could have fought for Jamaika..........

Everybody should fight under the flag he wants to.
it is a funny subject.... personally i will never see Tszyu as an Aussie.... Koc and Sam are German in my eyes as they were born and raised there.
Lewis born and raised in London so no problem for him fighting for GB....

the problems come with people like Saif Saeed a kenyan born, raised and trained until he becomes the best runner in the world, then he moves to Qatar...
Sam didnt grew up in Germany. He was born there,but can hardly speak any German. As for Coc he isnt German either though he has a German passport.

Sam was born in Germany and grew up, moved to Turkey and came back in 1999. he speaks german but not that good.

Koc spent his whole life in Germany. Why shouldn´t he be german?

Regarding your "racial heritage test" England wouldn´t have any heavyweight boxer.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 07 Apr 2005, 10:48

This Sidon character is 42 also, let the pair of old fuckers bash the crap out of each other could make for good viewing.

BubiScholz · Post by **BubiScholz** » 07 Apr 2005, 10:50

I´m not sure whether and where this fight will be showed.

jomothepure · Post by **jomothepure** » 07 Apr 2005, 13:29

nickd wrote:This Sidon character is 42 also, let the pair of old fuckers bash the crap out of each other could make for good viewing.

You're right! I didn't notice that before. He only started in 1999. Hope for Skelton yet. Unification between WBU and WBB? Oh, if only Audrey still had the WBF...that would make a linear champion to beat all others...

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 07 Apr 2005, 15:36

Damn I hope that isn't true about Holifield needing the money but it would explain a lot as I think it takes a very deluded person to imagaine that Evander could regain any portion of the world title now let alone unify it!. Unfortunately Evander has been rather generous in some areas and it looks like catching up with him in his pocket!.
It is amazingly stupid and I sometimes wonder if boxers throw their money away on purpose subconsciously so as to keep a reason for carrying on fighting. Sounds like mumbo jumbo I know but think of all the fighters, often intelligent and worldly men who have ended up with nothing at the end of their boxing careers and more often and not from their own mistakes and indulgences!.
Whether he needs the money or not Evander shouldn't be allowed to fight again... he has been sliding as a fighter for the past DECADE!... and showing serious signs of physical deterioration for a good few years too.
He reminds me a lot now of how Ali was at around 1980-1981... the speech pattern is very simular, I fear for him now even if he doesn't fight again but if he carries on fighting Evander could end up like Greg Page or worse!. I don't even think that a brutal ko loss would make him quit... (the Toney loss was pretty brutal I thought in itself!) he's just going to carry on if allowed till he can't walk to the ring anymore.
If ever there was a fighter who should be saved from himself it is Evander Holifield.

jab · Post by **jab** » 07 Apr 2005, 16:08

I say let him fight Sidon, he deserves to end his career with a win. Ok, Holyfield slipped a lot since he beat Tyson, but he hardly has anything to fear from Sidon. So let him fight a while.
I wouldnt want to see him against Vitali though. I dont want to see him mutilated or killed.

bigped · Post by **bigped** » 07 Apr 2005, 19:28

jab wrote:I say let him fight Sidon, he deserves to end his career with a win. Ok, Holyfield slipped a lot since he beat Tyson, but he hardly has anything to fear from Sidon. So let him fight a while.
I wouldnt want to see him against Vitali though. I dont want to see him mutilated or killed.

wheres this info about Holyfield having no cash coming from?? does he not own a third of the company pepsi?? i heard he is very very well off..

look at his last fight and his interview after, he genuiley believes hes improving and he can unify the titles its madness.

Holyfield off to Germany?

Evander, Go The Easy Route!!