Fighers who got Old at a young age

[Manos de Oro]

Getting thumbed in the eye is the worst ever.

Benny Lynch is definitely an example of someone getting old too fast. More to do with lifestyle than weight, IMO. Here's the website on Benny someone posted a while ago.

http://www.bennylynch.co.uk/

[Graham Brett]

there's two more to figure in there.

He was overrated, and had very poor defensive technique, and relied far too much on his reflexes. Once he went up the weight divisions, he didn't have the punch resistance to handle people.

He was a big sniff head whose love for quaylo fucked him up.

Curry on drugs, surely not.

During his fighting career, no way.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Well it's something I've heard from numerous sources. Doesn't make it true of course, but they weren't people with an axe to grind.

Or are you being being sarcastic.

Curry would hardly be the first fighter with a drug problem, Michael Cokes....

[Goz]

Wasn't Curry also reputedly a left-footer? If you catch my drift....

Gardening with an uphill tendency, you know...

[jamesmcdonnell]

Could be, couldn't care less personally if he was...it's what you do with the gloves that count, not what's in your protector.

[MightyWarrior]

I thought Mugabi defintely caught an thumb in the eye in the Thomas fight - I think he went into shock, as I imagine most people would if you had a thumb rammed into your eye full force.

As for being a quiter....well that's harsh, you could same the same about Benn v Watson - over from a jab....

Mugabi was a frightening puncher in his prime, had a good chin too. I think that would've given him the edge over Benn.

[silkov]

I think the Hagler vs Mugubi fight took a lot out of both fighters... Hagler was only a shadow of himself against Leonard imo. I would never blame a fighter for quitting after taking a thumb and the thumbing that Mugubi suffered against Thomas was a particularly nasty one... the eye swelled up within seconds if I remember right. I've read since that Mugubi suffering from eye trouble now so its possible that he suffered a detached retina or some other severe eye injury in the Thomas bout.

[Graham Brett]

Mugabi has a detatched retina and cataracts on both eyes.

Some coward

[KOJOE90]

No, but what he got was worse, he got a sustained battering, especially over the latter half of the fight. He took shots which would have felled a horse, but just refused to go down. I think that fight must have taken a lot out of him physically.

Thats quite possible. Although he did capture his world title after that fight.

True, but Magabi's title win was somewhat tainted by the fact that he caught Rene with a punch on the shoulder (going from memory here) that floored the Champion but who twisted his ankle on the way down and could not continue.

After the Hagler loss I realy thought 'The Beast' was going on to do a lot of damage at 11st but it wasn't to be.

Is he still talking about making a comeback?

[KOJOE90]

Mugabi has a detatched retina and cataracts on both eyes.

Some coward

Cataracts and detached retina's are both often caused by physical trauma to the eyeball.

Amongst other things, eg Gluacoma.

[Goz]

Could be, couldn't care less personally if he was...it's what you do with the gloves that count, not what's in your protector.

Backs to the wall boys, I've outed another one

[Goz]

Mugabi has a detatched retina and cataracts on both eyes.

Some coward

Listen, maybe coward was a bad/provocative choice of word (I did say 'cowardly circumstances, subtly different). I certainly wouldn't say it to his face!

I've felt for years there was a 'quit' angle to that fight. I will dig it out and try to watch it again over the next 48 hours and will let you know what I think now....

[KOJOE90]

Getting thumbed in the eye is the worst ever.

Benny Lynch is definitely an example of someone getting old too fast. More to do with lifestyle than weight, IMO. Here's the website on Benny someone posted a while ago.

http://www.bennylynch.co.uk/

I think the demon drink was a major factor in Bennys sad decline.

Thanks for the website link.

[silkov]

Mugabi has a detatched retina and cataracts on both eyes.

Some coward

Cataracts and detached retina's are both often caused by physical trauma to the eyeball.

Amongst other things, eg Gluacoma.

As I said its very likely Mugubi's eye trouble was caused in the Thomas bout, so to label his defeat cowardly is ridiculous really.
Mugubi was obviously shot when he fought Mcclellan.... no balance, reflexes or anything. I hope very much noone persuades him to fight again.

[KOJOE90]

Mugabi has a detatched retina and cataracts on both eyes.

Some coward

Cataracts and detached retina's are both often caused by physical trauma to the eyeball.

Amongst other things, eg Gluacoma.

As I said its very likely Mugubi's eye trouble was caused in the Thomas bout, so to label his defeat cowardly is ridiculous really..

I have never seen that fight, so can't really comment. But for years I have heard various views on Mugabis performance that night.

[Mugubi was obviously shot when he fought Mcclellan.... no balance, reflexes or anything. I hope very much noone persuades him to fight again.

I agree 100%

[silkov]

Mugabi has a detatched retina and cataracts on both eyes.

Some coward

Listen, maybe coward was a bad/provocative choice of word (I did say 'cowardly circumstances, subtly different). I certainly wouldn't say it to his face!

I've felt for years there was a 'quit' angle to that fight. I will dig it out and try to watch it again over the next 48 hours and will let you know what I think now....

After you watch it perhaps you could ask someone to jab you in the eye with their thumb and then see if you can still 'see' the quit angle to the fight then!. Of course he quit! he'd had his eye pushed into the back of his head and God knows what damage done to it!.... perhaps a detached retina perhaps a broken eye socket... perhaps both!... theres quitting and quitting. Theres no shame in quitting if your eye is half hanging out of your head!.

[MightyWarrior]

True, but Magabi's title win was somewhat tainted by the fact that he caught Rene with a punch on the shoulder (going from memory here) that floored the Champion but who twisted his ankle on the way down and could not continue.

After the Hagler loss I realy thought 'The Beast' was going on to do a lot of damage at 11st but it wasn't to be.

Is he still talking about making a comeback?

That was a hilarious fight I remember. Rene came into the ring to Eye Of The Tiger, with 1000's of French men cheering him on.

5 minutes later he's being carried out of the ring, clutching his ankle, and some idiot put Eye Of The Tiger on again, which gave it a slightly surreal look, especialy as he'd barely thrown a punch in anger.

[silkov]

Cataracts and detached retina's are both often caused by physical trauma to the eyeball.

Amongst other things, eg Gluacoma.

As I said its very likely Mugubi's eye trouble was caused in the Thomas bout, so to label his defeat cowardly is ridiculous really..

I have never seen that fight, so can't really comment. But for years I have heard various views on Mugabis performance that night.

[Mugubi was obviously shot when he fought Mcclellan.... no balance, reflexes or anything. I hope very much noone persuades him to fight again.

I agree 100%

I watched the Thomas fight at the time and it was a very nasty 'Thumbing'. Mugubi reeled into the roped in agony and when he looked up the eye was already swelling.

[silkov]

Getting thumbed in the eye is the worst ever.

Benny Lynch is definitely an example of someone getting old too fast. More to do with lifestyle than weight, IMO. Here's the website on Benny someone posted a while ago.

http://www.bennylynch.co.uk/

I think the demon drink was a major factor in Bennys sad decline.

Thanks for the website link.

I think Benny was only 33 when he died of alcoholism... one of boxings saddest stories. He was a boxer who seemed to have it all... speed, skill and power.

[Goz]

After you watch it perhaps you could ask someone to jab you in the eye with their thumb and then see if you can still 'see' the quit angle to the fight then!. Of course he quit! he'd had his eye pushed into the back of his head and God knows what damage done to it!.... perhaps a detached retina perhaps a broken eye socket... perhaps both!... theres quitting and quitting. Theres no shame in quitting if your eye is half hanging out of your head!.

Of course there isn't. But his eye wasn't half hanging out of his head. I would have remebered that.

[KOJOE90]

True, but Magabi's title win was somewhat tainted by the fact that he caught Rene with a punch on the shoulder (going from memory here) that floored the Champion but who twisted his ankle on the way down and could not continue.

After the Hagler loss I realy thought 'The Beast' was going on to do a lot of damage at 11st but it wasn't to be.

Is he still talking about making a comeback?

That was a hilarious fight I remember. Rene came into the ring to Eye Of The Tiger, with 1000's of French men cheering him on.

5 minutes later he's being carried out of the ring, clutching his ankle, and some idiot put Eye Of The Tiger on again, which gave it a slightly surreal look, especialy as he'd barely thrown a punch in anger.

I am sure it was that fight that also onced appeared on one of those Dennis Nortons 'It Will Be All Right On The Night' shows.

Garry Newbon(?) was in the ring trying to talk about the just finished fight to the camera. He kept getting pushed and jostled by the celebrating Team Mugabi. Gary got really pissed at them and starting waving a clenched fist aboud and swearing at them.

It was very funny.

[silkov]

After you watch it perhaps you could ask someone to jab you in the eye with their thumb and then see if you can still 'see' the quit angle to the fight then!. Of course he quit! he'd had his eye pushed into the back of his head and God knows what damage done to it!.... perhaps a detached retina perhaps a broken eye socket... perhaps both!... theres quitting and quitting. Theres no shame in quitting if your eye is half hanging out of your head!.

Of course there isn't. But his eye wasn't half hanging out of his head. I would have remebered that.

It wasn't visibly but probably felt that way and if he did suffer a boken bone or detatched retina then the eye would have been quite literally hanging loose in its socket.... the fact that he has severe eye problems now says it all... as it is most likely this fight that caused it or worstened trouble that he may already have had.

[Manos de Oro]

It's a lot different to getting punched in the eye. From my experience ( :x ) getting punched hard caused a dark cloud, temporary darkness, but you could still see and vision came back after no more than a minute. You can still keep fighting because you know it's going to clear soon enough. With the thumb I genuinely thought I was blind. Complete and utter darkness when your eye is wide open. Don't know how long it lasted but it felt like forever. Very scary.

Larry Holmes was one of the best thumbers of all time. I remember seeing a tape of one of his defences and the young guy kicked up a stink while holding his eye, after being "tko'd" by The Easton Assassin.

[Alex]

No disrespect to Nipper Pat Daly but I notice almost all his opponents had less than 10 fights, the large majority less than 1.
This throughout his career of 112 fights.

What was the amateur scene about then because the age and record suggest more amateur scene than pro, or was he the original Buck Smith.

Fighters in the 20's fought FAR more regularly than they do today - hence the reason many careers were finished so early. The majority of his opponent's records are vastly incomplete. Many of them had hundreds of fights and were some of the most experienced pros around.

I know Bert Kirby for example had over 109 career wins, Dick Corbett had a record of 183 (won 130, lost 36, drew 17), Johnny Cuthbert 154 (won 110, lost 30, drew 14), Seaman Watson 121 (won 111, lost 9, drew 1). Many of his other opponents would have fought just as many contests, sadly the only way to obtain their fight records is by sifting through hundreds of old newspapers... which could take a life time!

If you look on Boxrec at the record of any top British pro (who's career has been researched) from around this time, you will notice that the careers of most of his opponents are hugely incomplete. Boxrec is a work in progress and still has a very long way to go when it comes to the records of fighters of the pre-WW2 era. Which is why there is a disclaimer at the bottom of pages saying "NB this record may be incomplete".

The amateur scene back then was different from the one we have today, with many boxers opting to work their way up through the pro ranks (principally through a need to put food on the table), rather than taking the amateur route. I can assure you my grandfather and his opponents were pros - have you ever heard of amateurs fighting 15 round contests week in, week out!

There were still of course amateur champions who went on to become top pros in the manner that is familiar to us today:

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=041913 (Johnny Hill flyweight ABA champion in 1926).

Harry Mizler: http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=036447

and Dave McCleave: http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=036400

are two more British ABA champs, who went on to win the British title at professional level (something that meant a hell of a lot more in those days).

[KOJOE90]

Larry Holmes was one of the best thumbers of all time. I remember seeing a tape of one of his defences and the young guy kicked up a stink while holding his eye, after being "tko'd" by The Easton Assassin.

Scott LeDoux I believe.