Archie Moore v. Ezzard Charles IV for Lt. Hvy. Title ??

[Mr E]

After Charles lost to Marciano the 2nd time, he was still a big name and, I believe, still perfectly capable of making 175. Moore was light heavy champ and smarting from an 0-3 career mark against Charles. Does anyone know if there was ever any talk about Charles moving back down and challenging Moore for the light heavy title????

If not, I wonder why. Curious if anyone has any insight.

[BoxBuzz]

Moore was an absolute lock on a win if that fight would have happened. In either weight class. But I don't think it was ever a consideration by either man.

[Mr E]

Moore was an absolute lock on a win if that fight would have happened. In either weight class. But I don't think it was ever a consideration by either man.

I agree with you about who would have won. Interesting that it was never considered, though.

[dempseyfire]

Interesting question, but I think although Charles could make 175, I think by 1955 he would've been fairly drained doing so. While Ezzard famously had to cut down on road work in order to get above 175 when he first moved to that weight class in the late 1940s, by the mid-50s he was consistently weighing in the upper 180s and 190s, and I think he'd naturally filled out with age.

[Mr E]

Interesting question, but I think although Charles could make 175, I think by 1955 he would've been fairly drained doing so. While Ezzard famously had to cut down on road work in order to get above 175 when he first moved to that weight class in the late 1940s, by the mid-50s he was consistently weighing in the upper 180s and 190s, and I think he'd naturally filled out with age.

Maybe that's the answer. I recall reading an article somewhere that Ez still had to work to bulk up to the mid 180s even as late as the 1st Marciano fight, and that his decision to try to eat his way to few extra pounds for the rematch was a disaster. I think the article was contrasting Floyd Patterson, whom extra weight seemed to help, with Ezzard Charles and others, whom the extra weight seemed to hurt. But you could be right--if Ez just flat couldn't compete with the best @ only 175 anymore then the fight wouldn't have made any sense at the time.

[jaclem2]

..there was never any interest in charles coming back as a light heavy. none. nada.

at this point in their careers archie might have had a chance to win as ezzard well past his prime and archie was pretty good then....plus, this would have given boxbuzzy a reason to have a happy old age...even though neither fighter was the same as in their light heavy days, when ezzard was clearly the superior.

[Mr E]

..there was never any interest in charles coming back as a light heavy. none. nada.

You might be right, and I'm not interested in splitting hairs, but that's a pretty strong statement. Were you around and following boxing closely enough during the mid-50s that you have some personal knowledge that the fight was never discussed ,or is that, like me, you've just never heard or seen a reference to the fight being discussed?

[BoxBuzz]

jaclem was there, and casually close to the situation. Nevertheless, he will not come out and admit that #4 would have been all Archie.

That entire series was a mathematical fluke that should conclusively prove that ANYTHING can and DOES happen. Including Ezz could go 3 for 3 over Moore. However the Universe also demands balance, and that's why Moore get's up and beats Durelle after being sent to the abyss, and continues his career for more successful years.

It's the yin and the yang of things.

[jaclem2]

..when ezzard charles left the light heavy division he left it for good, even though he still could have made 175. lesnevich's people flatly refused to give ezzard a title shot, even turning down a lot of guarantee money. when lesnevich lost to freddie mills the ezzard camp knew there'd be no way he'd get a shot and the money was in the heavyweight division.

by the time of the marciano fights there just was no interest in the light heavy division. he was fighting well at 180 then and ...well....i don't know how to get this across. i knew most of the people in charles' camp, and got to talk to ezzard some years later. asking if he would go back to being a light heavy would have been the same as asking if he intended to dye his hair blonde. IT JUST WAS NOT DISCUSSED, CONSIDERED, BROUGHT UP.....

when boxbuzz goes to sleep at night, just before he drops off he envisions a 4th match with moore and sees archie winning. in their light heavy days...well, let's just buzzy doze off happily.

[Mr E]

..when ezzard charles left the light heavy division he left it for good, even though he still could have made 175. lesnevich's people flatly refused to give ezzard a title shot, even turning down a lot of guarantee money. when lesnevich lost to freddie mills the ezzard camp knew there'd be no way he'd get a shot and the money was in the heavyweight division.

by the time of the marciano fights there just was no interest in the light heavy division. he was fighting well at 180 then and ...well....i don't know how to get this across. i knew most of the people in charles' camp, and got to talk to ezzard some years later. asking if he would go back to being a light heavy would have been the same as asking if he intended to dye his hair blonde. IT JUST WAS NOT DISCUSSED, CONSIDERED, BROUGHT UP.....

That is very interesting. Thanks for the insight.