Quixall wrote:
I'm not knocking Joe, i'm just saying at as it is.............
He was a good champion, but he is nowhere near the likes of Jones, Hopkins, Toney, McCallum and no wins over a fadad Hopkins and Jones will change that. Wins over Eubank, Lacy and Kessler don't amount to very much and his no losses record means Jack in light of this......
The "good" Joe Calzaghe........Yeah
The "Great" Joe Calzaghe........Forget it
Aside from Hopkins .. who I think is even more over-hyped than Calzaghe .. then I totally agree
In the wider aspect of things .. Joe Calzaghe was a good world champion
Was he a great world champion? No. Simply because he didn`t put it on the line enough times for us to really be sure.
Then again. Here in Britain we have never had a truly GREAT world champion who could ever be realistically spoken about on a level of the Jones jr, Holyfields, Chavez`s or even the De La Hoya`s :(
Jimmy Wilde - A possible 1 in the last 100 years :(
As great as Wilde was said to be - does he really compare to a Ray Robinson .. a Duran .. a Ricardo Lopez or even an Ivan Calderon?? I honestly can`t say .. and sadly, nor can anybody else living today.
states wrote:Hopkins had the chance to fight Joe 5 years earlier, don't forget, but he accepted the fight and then asked for twice the money.
As for Enzo, yes Joe was such a talented fighter that he'd have been a success under anyone. But Enzo did well with the likes of Rees, Price and Maccarinelli as well.
Enzo did well, but i don't believe that he was any better then Brendan Ingle and i certainly would'nt put him as a top trainer
I'm not so sure about that -
Brendan Ingles training methods are even more questionable that Enzo Calzaghes strange gym / music studio : set up.
Ingle is unorthdox and indulges in alot of nonsense philosphys and training tecqniues.
Ingles hands down style - has ruined alot of fighters in real testing fights - Ryan Rhodes got destroyed by Jason Matthews inside 2 rounds and Pele Reid was knocked out in 1 round by Orlin Norris..............both fighters had their hands down by their bollocks - were able to get away with it at a lower level.
You cant saying training every fighter in his hands down by bollocks style - will suit everyone - what if they have not got the reflexs and speed ?
Naz said since a young age - Brendan did nothing for him - he would just turn up and the gym and go through his same routine throughout the years - nothing changed.
It seems Dominic Ingle was the main grafter in the gym - taking Naz on the pads , etc
First off, Pele Reid was never going to be in the same class as Orlin Norris, who had experience at world level, where as Reid was nothing more than a journeyman Fighter. Sure, the hands down approach was perhaps what got him knocked out, but that can't soley be blamed on Brendan Ingle, because Reid would have lost that fight to Norris whatever gym he was at.
secondly, you pick out one Ryan Rhodes fight against Jason Mathews and put that down to Ingle, so in turn you must also give praise to Ingle that the same Ryan Rhodes went the distance with Otis Grant for the middleweight title, only losing by 1 to 2 rounds on all three judges scorecards.
Thirdly, Naz came out with that bullshit when he had fallen out with Brendan. The simple reason why the ingle Gym had all that success, including Naz, was because they all copied Herol Graham and made versions and added pieces that would suit themselves. Ingle taught them the basics of footwork, ring craft, orthadox and unorthadox stances, but it was the sheer talent of Graham that took it to a new level.
The only difference between Naz and Graham, was that Naz could punch hard.
As for John or Dominic Ingle doing all the work and Brendan getting all the acclaim, i'll ask you this............
What success has come out of the ingle gym since Johnny Nelson retired and Brendan went into virtual retirement ?
Answered that question i think.
As i say, Hero Graham was the real architect of that style and everyone copied it to varying degrees of sucess, Anderson, Rhodes, Nelson and Naz
Calzaghe beat all those he came up against, he was exciting, had great stamina, movement, and heart. He held every belt, unified the division by beating a youngeer stronger undefeated world champ. Hopkins ducked the fight years before and Joe cannot be blamed for that. The very fact Joe remained undefeated prevented others from dominating, thus preventing big names to emerge and therefore challange him.
fist wrote:Calzaghe beat all those he came up against, he was exciting, had great stamina, movement, and heart. He held every belt, unified the division by beating a youngeer stronger undefeated world champ. Hopkins ducked the fight years before and Joe cannot be blamed for that. The very fact Joe remained undefeated prevented others from dominating, thus preventing big names to emerge and therefore challange him.
What do you mean......."The very fact Joe remained undefeated prevented others from dominating" ?
It doesn't make any sense !!
What has remaining undefeated got to do with anything ? He had a padded record, hence no losses.
tonyevs wrote:Jimmy Wilde - A possible 1 in the last 100 years :(
As great as Wilde was said to be - does he really compare to a Ray Robinson .. a Duran .. a Ricardo Lopez or even an Ivan Calderon?? I honestly can`t say .. and sadly, nor can anybody else living today.
Considering that he is generally considered the greatest flyweight ever, I'd say he's definitely above Finito and Calderon.
