hitman09 wrote:
Styles make fights. Vitali is all wrong for Tyson, and he's infinitely better than Berbick.
Infinitely better? Berbick was a big, strong, quick, two-handed fighter who went 15 rounds with a peak Larry Holmes and scored several shock wins, including the win over Thomas for the title. He really earned that shot.
I remember they brought over Berbick to defend his Commonwealth title against Frank Bruno in 1984 but they put him in with Mark Lee first in a 10-rounder at Wembley to really check him out. Berbick dished out a horrible pasting to the gutsy American and was immediately sent packing.
And Vitali is a much bigger, stronger, more powerful fighter with an iron jaw. Berbick wasn't that big, he was at least 3/4 inches shorter than Vitali.
You need puch power to slow tyson down or stop him and vitali is a fairly weak puncher. Tyson would bob weave and bang, iron chin or not no heavyweight could take a full on punch on the button from tyson.
Actually i take back what i said - wlad v tyson would be like the berbick fight.
Vitali would have been more like the Bruno fight number 2, but without brunos overhand right.
In Vitali Klitschko we have a guy that is a bigger Knockout puncher than Tyson. Tyson is 88% in his victories compared to 95% for Vitali K. But the difference Tyson goes in tries and blasts them out early. Vitali will have the hands down low picking his opponent off as they come in on the offensive. Tyson will look to take Vitali out early, but Vitali K will just box smart drag Tyson in the later rounds and the knock him out as Tyson in my eyes never had a plan B.
Tyson was used to fighting taller men and none came taller than Carl "the truth" Williams who he beat quite easily...........
Tyson had power, accuarcy and fast hands, backed up by five to six punch combinations in his prime and it's my opinion that pre-spinks not many could have lived with him. A few went the distance, such as smith and tucker, but they were the exceptions to the rule at that time.
A prime Mike Tyson knocks out or stops Vitali Klitschko everytime, the later (Lewis fight) Tyson struggles and maybe loses to Klitschko
BIGMARK wrote:A prime Tyson against a prime Vitali would be a good fight and IMO a difficult one to pick. People always get carried away by the Tyson "Prime" hype and when he was beating fighters like Tubbs, Holmes and Smith it wasnt excatly a hot division. Vitali is a good athete and physically strong enough to keep Mike away. One thing the bully Tyson didnt like was being hit and once a ramrod jab hit him he would think twice about trying to come inside as has happens to many a Vitali victim.
Tyson for me was an exciting fighter but one of the most over rated in the history of the sport who cleaned out a very poor division that even makes todays fat slobs seem decent. I am not talking about the Bowe, Holyfield, Lewis era but the period before when Tyson became Champ. I would maybe make the Tyson that fought Berbick a favorite but any version of Tyson from Bruno 1 onwards gets beat IMO. A lot of todays champions arent the most talented in the divison but the ones who prepare the best (mentally and physically) and for me this would give Vitali an edge as the Klitschlos are pro in everything they do and leave no stone unturned.
(sorry boxerbob i will get my coat).
But Mark........
You talk about Tyson and the fighters around in his era and i have some sympathy with what you are saying, but who has Vitali fought when they were in their prime years that can be classed as better than Tyson fought ?
Quixall wrote:Tyson was used to fighting taller men and none came taller than Carl "the truth" Williams who he beat quite easily...........
Tyson had power, accuarcy and fast hands, backed up by five to six punch combinations in his prime and it's my opinion that pre-spinks not many could have lived with him. A few went the distance, such as smith and tucker, but they were the exceptions to the rule at that time.
A prime Mike Tyson knocks out or stops Vitali Klitschko everytime, the later (Lewis fight) Tyson struggles and maybe loses to Klitschko
Vitali is four inches taller than Williams and Tyson struggled with several other tall fighters. Vitali uses his height quite well and would be the tallest opponent Tyson faced. He also takes a shot as well as any man Tyson has been in with and has always shown great stamina. I just don't think Tyson would stop Vitali, unless it was on cuts. If Tyson beat Vitali I would think it would come by way of an unimpressive decision. Vitali has all the tools to trouble Tyson.
Tyson peaked in 1988, after which he was on the long road down. If longevity is the key to greatness, Tyson is not great. However, the Tyson who destroyed Mike Spinks is still too good for Klit at his best.
Not really sure how people are using Tyson's opposition as a way of supporting Klitschko?
Thomas, Berbick, Spinks & Holmes (albeit past their bests), Smith, Tucker, Bruno, Ruddock, Tubbs, Biggs, Williams...
even the likes of Green, Tillis, Ribalta and Frazier piss over the majority of Vitali's resume.
Vitali has never fought anyone with the offence or speed of Tyson, he tries leaning back from shots whilst Tyson is throwing combos he is getting knocked out.
Wlad against Tyson would be over before the first bell
Tyson was overrated but as is so often the case, he is now becoming underrated.
when you say tyson you always have to focus on 86-88 tyson. yes he was devastating and he could really make ppl shi t themselves. he beat some very talented heavyweights, albeit ones who lost the plot after making their money. spinks and holmes were great wins - holmes was boxing in very sprightly fashion for a 38 year old. these were big fights that should not be taken for granted, and boxing isn't always about fighting guys in their primes. that said he could be a bit of an on top fighter, was unimpressive vs bonecrusher and mitch green, had problems with bigger opponents and was one paced if he couldn't get the guy out of there.
i certainly don't think the diplomatic klitschko brothers would have even considered messing with tyson, if they were of the same era and if tyson was regarded as "the man". but if the K2s were the champs, if the titles were all in europe, and a young tyson had to fight on their terms, you never know how it would have ended up.
fact is they're fighters of different eras and different sizes and it maybe doesn't really help much to do these comparisons.
Prime Mike Tyson who have obliterated Klitschko. True Tyson didn't like a fighter with grit and a jab, and the likes of Bonecrusher Smith and Ruddock who possessed less of the power then VK survived the distance and frustrated Tyson but Tyson's foot speed would have negated much of VK's physical advantages and he carries his hands low too.
Lenny wrote:Not really sure how people are using Tyson's opposition as a way of supporting Klitschko?
Thomas, Berbick, Spinks & Holmes (albeit past their bests), Smith, Tucker, Bruno, Ruddock, Tubbs, Biggs, Williams...
even
And which of those you listed above would of beaten a prime Vitali? Tucker was one tough fella and is a good win on Tyson record but apart from him and a prime Holmes (which Tyson never fought) he beats the lot IMO wthe likes of Green, Tillis, Ribalta and Frazier piss over the majority of Vitali's resume.
ith the other two putting up a fight but no doubt going down, especially a 38 year old Holmes.
Its ademic really, vitali could be great or he could be overrated, we cant tell because his level of opponents have been so poor.
Was Tyson overrated, quite possibly, he didnt fight any of the greats in their prime and he was beaten by Douglas.
BUT it was the manner in which he despatched his foe that made him a legend. If vitali was out there smashing opponents to pieces then people would rate him as a bigger talent.
Well i couldnt pick a winner , hence starting the thread , seems in all the discussion the general boxrec community cant pick either , no doubt if i posted this on current scene id have been rediculed for thinking either K brother could live with Tyson .
For the romance and sake of the division id like to think Tyson would have won but im really not sure , i think as said many times before , styles make fights and i dont know if tyson could have dealt with this particular opponent.
I was just watching Vitali's latest fight on youtube and I could'nt help thinking that one fighter that would have really troubled him was Larry Holmes.I think he would have beaten Vitali handidly.I know this does not answer the original question, but is just an observation.
Back to the post.I think Vitali would have easily beaten the Tyson of the 90's -certainly the one that faced Holyfield onwards, but I think Tyson would have bashed him up in the 80's.Miles to quick, powerful and accurate for him.The Tyson in the 90s was slower and no longer had the love of the sport for the training or the hard fighting.
forcefraser wrote:I don`t think the prime Tyson is overrated at all.
He was by far the quickest heavyweight we have ever seen and his aggression was immense. He would have destroyed both Klits by brutal KO. They would not have the defence to keep him off and Wlad in particular would have been like a rabbit in headlights.
There was a couple of years when Tyson was utterly brilliant. He burned out quickly though when the lifestyle took over from his boxing. However aged 19 - 21 he was simply awesome and had far too much speed for the likes of the Klits.
x2
fornicating hell the Klits are the ones who are overrated. Imagine what a prime Ali (Clay) would have done to them?
No he didnt, in fact he was lousy against Tucker and Smith and Douglas well, its common knowledge that big guys with jabs gave him fits.
Like Frank Bruno?
Big differance was Bruno was afraid (like Smith was but smith wanted..and had the chin to last the course) and never had the mindset to pull it off.
Whereas Douglas beat him and Mitch Green lasted the course.
That said he did destroy Ribbalta and Williams but overall he had problems with big men who could take it.
crusader wrote:I think even at his best Mike would have had some serious difficulties with a huge, strong, smart, and durable fighter like VK. Looking at his record, there are a handful of fighters who went the distance or into the latter rounds with Tyson even before he lost to Douglas. I think Vitali would go the distance and I would give him a shot at beating a prime Tyson. Mid 90's Tyson would be beaten by Vitali. The people who suggest Tyson would get Vitali out of there early or beat him without any troubles are very much mistaken, in my opinion.
Wlad could cause any version of Tyson problems with his jab and size, but I would think a prime Tyson would catch him eventually.
Mike struggled with big durable guys who survived the early onslaught, which I think Vitali undoubtedly would have.
Tyson's speed though, might have been enough to win Tyson enough rounds to win the fight. I don't know if Vitali is fast enough to land on Mike enough to take him out or win the rounds.
Wlad I think would have gotten caught early and hurt and taken out.
greg wrote:... not sure about the results... but he'd have found Vitali's style VERY inconvenient to deal with...
I honestly dont think he would. I dont think either of the Klitchko's is as good a pure boxer as tony Tucker was, and none of them hit as hard or from such freaky angles as a razor ruddock or bonecrusher. They arent really that bigger than a Frank Bruno and forget the Lewis defeat Tyson was beyond shot.
I see Tyson mauling them and breaking ribs and noses on a way to a 7-8 round stoppage and its the Tyson of late 86-88 Im talking about.The 89-91 Tyson would beat them too depending on whether or not he was screwing hoes before the fight.
