Fighers who got Old at a young age

[Collins2000]

I think you'll find it was Scott Frank. He was carrying on like someone out of the WWE.

A few people claim Holmes was a deliberate thumber. Maybe he was but you'd have to wonder why he'd feel the need to need to thumb a very moderate opponent like Frank yet not use the 'tactic' when he was up to his neck in smeg against Norton and Witherspoon.

The Bubblegum Bomber grew old at a young age but he had a shitload of fights. I think he turned pro at 16.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Could be, couldn't care less personally if he was...it's what you do with the gloves that count, not what's in your protector.

Backs to the wall boys, I've outed another one

"Boy, I mean to have you boy, even if it must be by burglary.":lol:

[J]

actually that geezer drinks in a boozer in warwick avenue, the warrington sometimes.
seen him loads of times and no not like that just noticed a well known face.

[Graham Brett]

True, but Magabi's title win was somewhat tainted by the fact that he caught Rene with a punch on the shoulder (going from memory here) that floored the Champion but who twisted his ankle on the way down and could not continue.

After the Hagler loss I realy thought 'The Beast' was going on to do a lot of damage at 11st but it wasn't to be.

Is he still talking about making a comeback?

That was a hilarious fight I remember. Rene came into the ring to Eye Of The Tiger, with 1000's of French men cheering him on.

5 minutes later he's being carried out of the ring, clutching his ankle, and some idiot put Eye Of The Tiger on again, which gave it a slightly surreal look, especialy as he'd barely thrown a punch in anger.

Yeah that was a funny fight.

I remember seeing Mugabi in a pub in mile end shortly after that fight.

He said he hit Jaquot so hard the force went down his body and broke his ankle.

[johnswan1]

No disrespect to Nipper Pat Daly but I notice almost all his opponents had less than 10 fights, the large majority less than 1.
This throughout his career of 112 fights.

What was the amateur scene about then because the age and record suggest more amateur scene than pro, or was he the original Buck Smith.

That is a crazy record - 8 of the fighters he lost against had either never won before or never even fought previously!

[MightyWarrior]

I think that just means his opponents records were difficult to verify - same thing happens even now, places like Mexico etc...

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yep, and argentina, one of the most mysterious boxing nations. Half the fighters from there are unknown quantities when they come over, as most of them rarely boxing outside argentina, let alone south america.

[Alex]

No disrespect to Nipper Pat Daly but I notice almost all his opponents had less than 10 fights, the large majority less than 1.
This throughout his career of 112 fights.

What was the amateur scene about then because the age and record suggest more amateur scene than pro, or was he the original Buck Smith.

That is a crazy record - 8 of the fighters he lost against had either never won before or never even fought previously!

LOL read my previous post, which explains why. These records are HUGELY incomplete! Many, if not most of his opponents fought over a hundred bouts. The message "NB this record may be incomplete", should be read as "is vastly incomplete" in the case of many old time fighters.

Take Jimmy Wilde for example (widely considered the greatest pound for pound fighter in history). If we take his boxrec record literally, then after a record of 91-0-9 (consisting mostly of wins against opponents who had only 1 or no fights) he was stopped by Tancy Lee, a fighter who was 3-1-0. Obviously Lee's record is massively incomplete, as are the records of all most all of Wilde's opponents. And he was one of the greatest fighters who ever lived!

[KOJOE90]

Could be, couldn't care less personally if he was...it's what you do with the gloves that count, not what's in your protector.

Backs to the wall boys, I've outed another one

"Boy, I mean to have you boy, even if it must be by burglary.":lol:

"We want cake and the finest wines available to humanity, we want them here and we want them now!!

Great film.

[MightyWarrior]

Davey Moore 1959-1988

After just eight fights, the young hot shot was sent over to Japan to fetch back the WBA light middleweight title from the new champion Mihara, for his promoter Bob Arum. This he did, with a brilliant 6th round KO.

Then Bob rewards him by sending him over to South Africa two months later, to take on their murderous punching local star, Charlie Weir - The Silver Assassin. ( well know for punching opponents when they were down, and getting away with it too )
This fight made Arum big money, and Weir was a heavy favorite to demolish the novice champ.
In fact, a lot of cynics refered to Davey as "the messenger" - knowing he only got his shot in order to deliver the title, on a plate, to South Africa.

Of course Davey had his own plans, and smashed Weir to the canvas round after round, until it was stopped in the 5th.
That's when Arum suddenly realised he had a star on his hands. But it was only two more defences before, in his 13th fight, Moore was brutaly exposed at true world level by Roberto Duran. To make it even worse, the defeat took place in his hometown and the whole crowd was cheering for Duran. It was Duran's birthday as well.

A thumb in the eye early on left Moore a near sitting duck, and Duran teed off on him with every punch in the book, round after round.

This fight ruined Moore, and the end was in sight. Davey's career went into a downward spiral, ending with his death four years later in an out of the ring accident.

RIP Davey Moore - both of them.

[Graham Brett]

Davey Moore 1959-1988

After just eight fights, the young hot shot was sent over to Japan to fetch back the WBA light middleweight title from the new champion Mihara, for his promoter Bob Arum. This he did, with a brilliant 6th round KO.

Then Bob rewards him by sending him over to South Africa two months later, to take on their murderous punching local star, Charlie Weir - The Silver Assassin. ( well know for punching opponents when they were down, and getting away with it too )
This fight made Arum big money, and Weir was a heavy favorite to demolish the novice champ.
In fact, a lot of cynics refered to Davey as "the messenger" - knowing he only got his shot in order to deliver the title, on a plate, to South Africa.

Of course Davey had his own plans, and smashed Weir to the canvas round after round, until it was stopped in the 5th.
That's when Arum suddenly realised he had a star on his hands. But it was only two more defences before, in his 13th fight, Moore was brutaly exposed at true world level by Roberto Duran. To make it even worse, the defeat took place in his hometown and the whole crowd was cheering for Duran. It was Duran's birthday as well.

A thumb in the eye early on left Moore a near sitting duck, and Duran teed off on him with every punch in the book, round after round.

This fight ruined Moore, and the end was in sight. Davey's career went into a downward spiral, ending with his death four years later in an out of the ring accident.

RIP Davey Moore - both of them.

Didnt Davey (154lb) Moore, slip while pushing his car on his drive and it rolled over him?

Tragic, he seemed a nice guy and was still boxing at the time.

Any more news on the late? Charlie Weir, MW?

[MightyWarrior]

Didnt Davey (154lb) Moore, slip while pushing his car on his drive and it rolled over him?

Tragic, he seemed a nice guy and was still boxing at the time.

Any more news on the late? Charlie Weir, MW?

Yep, it was a freak accident and the poor guy was crushed by his own car. He'd had a fight just a few months before..

No haven't heard anything more about the strange case of Charlie Weir - I reckon he's still alive...maybe someone from S Africa can clear it up for us.

[Boxingnut]

Two more. Errol Christie and Harry Escott.

[KOJOE90]

Harry Escott.

Now there is a name I have not heard in ages, I remember him hetting stopped by Brian Roche in 1990.

[Old bones Ian]

names that burnt out early.
Matthew Hilton, won the title in a real barnstomer of a fight with Buster Drayton, at the age of 22 lost it in his second defense against huge underdog Robert Hines, blamed weight making for that. After that just kind of burnt out, i think a drink problem was part of his downfall.

[Boxingnut]

Harry Escott.

Now there is a name I have not heard in ages, I remember him hetting stopped by Brian Roche in 1990.

From what I remember Harry had a decent amateur career but turned pro very early, 18 I think.

[tonyevs]

No disrespect to Nipper Pat Daly but I notice almost all his opponents had less than 10 fights, the large majority less than 1.
This throughout his career of 112 fights.

What was the amateur scene about then because the age and record suggest more amateur scene than pro, or was he the original Buck Smith.

That is a crazy record - 8 of the fighters he lost against had either never won before or never even fought previously!

LOL read my previous post, which explains why. These records are HUGELY incomplete! Many, if not most of his opponents fought over a hundred bouts. The message "NB this record may be incomplete", should be read as "is vastly incomplete" in the case of many old time fighters.

Take Jimmy Wilde for example (widely considered the greatest pound for pound fighter in history). If we take his boxrec record literally, then after a record of 91-0-9 (consisting mostly of wins against opponents who had only 1 or no fights) he was stopped by Tancy Lee, a fighter who was 3-1-0. Obviously Lee's record is massively incomplete, as are the records of all most all of Wilde's opponents. And he was one of the greatest fighters who ever lived!

How do you know `many, if not most of his opponents fought over a hundred bouts`.
If you know this why haven`t you updated the records of any of them then? even if you only found a few more, or are you guessing??

And to compare his record to Jimmy Wilde the boxers Jimmy lost to carved something of a mark into boxing themselves.

[Manos de Oro]

names that burnt out early.
Matthew Hilton, won the title in a real barnstomer of a fight with Buster Drayton, at the age of 22 lost it in his second defense against huge underdog Robert Hines, blamed weight making for that. After that just kind of burnt out, i think a drink problem was part of his downfall.

Matthew is one of my favourite fighters to watch. Both he and Davey used to go through hell, allegedly, to make weight - often ballooning up as high as 200lb. In between training for a fight mainly involved excessive boozing, crime, and street fighting for the bros. Matthew could definitely have extended his stay at least a little longer if he had been more disciplined - in my view. If you watch him bouncing out to the drums in front of that huge crowd in Montreal on the night he won the title, then look at him a few years later nearing the end of his career: there is a big difference. To put it blunt, he looks like an alky; someone with a drink problem. I think the death of their teenage brother, Stewart, and his pregnant girlfriend in a car crash probably exacerbated their drinking habit. As for the other stuff they have been accused/convicted of... fornicate knows, the family as a whole has more skeletons in its cupboard than your average Westminster M.P.

Pointless trivia: which world class heavyweight helped Matthew train for his big title fight?

[jamesmcdonnell]

Backs to the wall boys, I've outed another one

"Boy, I mean to have you boy, even if it must be by burglary.":lol:

"We want cake and the finest wines available to humanity, we want them here and we want them now!!

Great film.

Check this out.

http://www.withnail-and-i.com/sounds/29.mp3

[Graham Brett]

names that burnt out early.
Matthew Hilton, won the title in a real barnstomer of a fight with Buster Drayton, at the age of 22 lost it in his second defense against huge underdog Robert Hines, blamed weight making for that. After that just kind of burnt out, i think a drink problem was part of his downfall.

Matthew is one of my favourite fighters to watch. Both he and Davey used to go through hell, allegedly, to make weight - often ballooning up as high as 200lb. In between training for a fight mainly involved excessive boozing, crime, and street fighting for the bros. Matthew could definitely have extended his stay at least a little longer if he had been more disciplined - in my view. If you watch him bouncing out to the drums in front of that huge crowd in Montreal on the night he won the title, then look at him a few years later nearing the end of his career: there is a big difference. To put it blunt, he looks like an alky; someone with a drink problem. I think the death of their teenage brother, Stewart, and his pregnant girlfriend in a car crash probably exacerbated their drinking habit. As for the other stuff they have been accused/convicted of... fornicate knows, the family as a whole has more skeletons in its cupboard than your average Westminster M.P.

Pointless trivia: which world class heavyweight helped Matthew train for his big title fight?

Jimmy Ellis

[Graham Brett]

A guy i knowe who used to post on here ( i think he was called knockout artist) told me that Hilton was boss eyed after being beaten up with a baseball bat.

Anyone know if this is true?

[KOJOE90]

A guy i knowe who used to post on here ( i think he was called knockout artist) told me that Hilton was boss eyed after being beaten up with a baseball bat.

Anyone know if this is true?

I have heard the same story to, from a number of sources.

[DG.]

Daffy Duck

[Alex]

How do you know `many, if not most of his opponents fought over a hundred bouts`.
If you know this why haven`t you updated the records of any of them then? even if you only found a few more, or are you guessing??.

Because fighters of this era fought week in, week out and weren't guided through with kid gloves and fed easy opponents like many of today’s protected fighters. Take a visit to the British newspaper library and read through a years worth of boxing's, you'll see for yourself how regularly these men fought! I've added the bouts i've found (hence the randomness of the bouts that appear), but researching them all is a time -consuming job that I doubt i'd ever achieve on my own. The few I have seen complete records for have all fought over a hundred contests.

And to compare his record to Jimmy Wilde the boxers Jimmy lost to carved something of a mark into boxing themselves.

I wasn't comparing my grandfather to Jimmy Wilde... you've missed my point completely (although i'm not sure how, as it was fairly obvious). My point was that if you judge the quality of the opponents of ANY fighter of this era, based on the incomplete records that are on boxrec, then you are making a huge mistake.

I cited Wilde as an example, because he is held in very high regard and is very well known. I was applying your "logic" on assesing my grandfather's opponents to Wilde, to demonstrate that it is flawed. We all know Wilde fought some great opponents, but if you take their boxrec records at face value, you wouldn't know it!

Incidentally Wilde was a big fan of my grandfather and used to watch his fights!

[silkov]

How do you know `many, if not most of his opponents fought over a hundred bouts`.
If you know this why haven`t you updated the records of any of them then? even if you only found a few more, or are you guessing??.

Because fighters of this era fought week in, week out and weren't guided through with kid gloves and fed easy opponents like many of today’s protected fighters. Take a visit to the British newspaper library and read through a years worth of boxing's, you'll see for yourself how regularly these men fought! I've added the bouts i've found (hence the randomness of the bouts that appear), but researching them all is a time -consuming job that I doubt i'd ever achieve on my own. The few I have seen complete records for have all fought over a hundred contests.

And to compare his record to Jimmy Wilde the boxers Jimmy lost to carved something of a mark into boxing themselves.

I wasn't comparing my grandfather to Jimmy Wilde... you've missed my point completely (although i'm not sure how, as it was fairly obvious). My point was that if you judge the quality of the opponents of ANY fighter of this era, based on the incomplete records that are on boxrec, then you are making a huge mistake.

I cited Wilde as an example, because he is held in very high regard and is very well known. I was applying your "logic" on assesing my grandfather's opponents to Wilde, to demonstrate that it is flawed. We all know Wilde fought some great opponents, but if you take their boxrec records at face value, you wouldn't know it!

Incidentally Wilde was a big fan of my grandfather and used to watch his fights!

I've read a fair bit about your grandfather and he was certainly a great boxer who had a remarkable though short career (short in years not fight!) I know he was fighting top liners in 20 rounders when just 15/16. Everyone who knows there stuff here knows that many of the fighters records are incomplete hence the low amount of fights for many.
For your Grandfather to be remembered by a boxing historian such as Gilbert Odd he must have been something special, its just a shame that he was rushed and burnt out otherwise he may well have been a title holder.