Louis vs Marciano

[snake33]

I was watching this fight last night and noticed Louis upper body was
just massive. It looked like he had done a ton of weight training
prior to this fight. My guess is that he beefed up to try for a knockout
agains't the modestly sized Rock. It seemed to backfire on him because
he wasn't throwing punches in time to catch Rocky on the outside. Rock
kept charging in and landing. Granted, Louis was older and on a layoff
comeback but his choices in training (strength) may have slowed him
down even more. Marciano knocking him through the ropes was classic.

[Grimm]

I was watching this fight last night and noticed Louis upper body was
just massive. It looked like he had done a ton of weight training
prior to this fight. My guess is that he beefed up to try for a knockout
agains't the modestly sized Rock. It seemed to backfire on him because
he wasn't throwing punches in time to catch Rocky on the outside. Rock
kept charging in and landing. Granted, Louis was older and on a layoff
comeback but his choices in training (strength) may have slowed him
down even more. Marciano knocking him through the ropes was classic.

Okay

[zuru]

Rocky Marciano was too much,even for the great (much loved)Brown Bomber.Joe Louis was a great fighter,but,you can't afford to stand around and exchange blows with the original "Manos de Piedra".
zuru

[Tantum]

Yeah, Joe Louis being 9 years outta prime had nothing to do with it, right Zuru?

28 year old Louis vs 28 year old Marciano = Louis by KO.

[zuru]

Yeah, Joe Louis being 9 years outta prime had nothing to do with it, right Zuru?

28 year old Louis vs 28 year old Marciano = Louis by KO.

Tantum,
oh yeah Tantum,oh yeah,well what about....................I just can't talk right now,you have me so upset talkng negative about the Rock,I just need to log out for a moment,zuru

[Jaclem]

...that slow moving hulk you saw against marciano was an imposter. the real joe louis knocked out jersey joe walcott with as great a combination of lefts and rights as any fighter ever threw....but even then the bomber knew he was past his orime and retired....and stayed retired.

the so-called comeback with that big fellow who slightly resembled him is the greatest and most kept secrets in boxing history

[tonyevs]

This is why the greats hang around too long, their name always looks good even when they do not.

[Grimm]

What about prime Marciano vs. prime Louis?

[tonyevs]

What about prime Marciano vs. prime Louis?

Marciano was given problems by old fighters who were not as good as Joe Louis when they were in their primes, a prime Louis stops Marciano be it by KO or cuts.

[Jaclem]

tonyevs.......ditto

[Grimm]

What about prime Marciano vs. prime Louis?

Marciano was given problems by old fighters who were not as good as Joe Louis when they were in their primes, a prime Louis stops Marciano be it by KO or cuts.

Yeah I myself say that Louis stops him on cuts.

[snake33]

What about prime Marciano vs. prime Louis?

Marciano was given problems by old fighters who were not as good as Joe Louis when they were in their primes, a prime Louis stops Marciano be it by KO or cuts.

Yeah I myself say that Louis stops him on cuts.

You guys are right. Rock would get up from a knockdown but
his face could (and did several times) come apart. Louis was
not immune to a solid punch however and Rock always had
one of those ready. It would have been a great fight and
could have gone either way.

[Graham Brett]

I was watching this fight last night and noticed Louis upper body was
just massive. It looked like he had done a ton of weight training
prior to this fight. My guess is that he beefed up to try for a knockout
agains't the modestly sized Rock. It seemed to backfire on him because
he wasn't throwing punches in time to catch Rocky on the outside. Rock
kept charging in and landing. Granted, Louis was older and on a layoff
comeback but his choices in training (strength) may have slowed him
down even more. Marciano knocking him through the ropes was classic.

I didnt think Boxers used weights in those days.

Even when I was boxing in the early 80's it was frowned upon.

[snake33]

I was watching this fight last night and noticed Louis upper body was
just massive. It looked like he had done a ton of weight training
prior to this fight. My guess is that he beefed up to try for a knockout
agains't the modestly sized Rock. It seemed to backfire on him because
he wasn't throwing punches in time to catch Rocky on the outside. Rock
kept charging in and landing. Granted, Louis was older and on a layoff
comeback but his choices in training (strength) may have slowed him
down even more. Marciano knocking him through the ropes was classic.

I didnt think Boxers used weights in those days.

Even when I was boxing in the early 80's it was frowned upon.

Well, i dunno, Louis was older and heavier, which was to be expected
but his arms and chest were huge. That only comes from weight training.
Maybe a radical training for the time (that didn't work) but that is what it
looked like.

[Jaclem]

..photos of louis just after being released from the army..and even of those
whenche was giving exhibitions in the army show him as being fat. of course he trained down for his post army fights and much of the bulk was from fat trained into muscle, but he never got back to his pre-war weight. he came in against marciano at around 215 which was heavy for him...plus marciano was much shorter and weighed around 180...so it made the bomber look even bigger. i seriously doubt that louis would have switched to weight training at this pont in his career...it was such a no-no at the time and many of not most trainers today still avoid it.

[Jaclem]

..photos of louis just after being released from the army..and even of those
whenche was giving exhibitions in the army show him as being fat. of course he trained down for his post army fights and much of the bulk was from fat trained into muscle, but he never got back to his pre-war weight. he came in against marciano at around 215 which was heavy for him...plus marciano was much shorter and weighed around 180...so it made the bomber look even bigger. i seriously doubt that louis would have switched to weight training at this pont in his career...it was such a no-no at the time and many of not most trainers today still avoid it.

[silkov]

At his peak Louis would have destroyed Marciano... Rockys style was made for Joe... as it was Louis still managed to bust Rocky up a bit and was doing ok for about 5 rounds till he ran out of gas.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Even now weight training is frowned upon by many trainers, and even the huge frank bruno only did light weights, not serious bodybuilding routines.

Just a side note. You CANNOT train fat into muscle. Muscles fibres grow with training, fat cells shrink from consuming more calories than are ingested, the two are unrelated processes.

One comment is worth noting. Louis himself once said something about how he figured he would have fared against Marciano in his prime.

"One thing that nobody ever knew about me, was that I hated to be crowded, all through my career

Now maybe Joe was just being modest, as he was a pretty modest kind of guy or at least presented that image.

I do not rate the Rock that highly, in the pantheon of Heavyweight champions, but Marciano for his size was a devastating puncher. Like Louis, his punches travelled very short distances on a tight arc, and if Louis could get dropped by Tony Galento, then Marciano sure as hell could of.

I think if Rocky got Louis in serious trouble, he wouldn't have hesistated to finish him, Rocky was a ruthless finisher.

The matchup of styles would have been a good one. Louis had the superior skills, but Rocky was just so hard to deter and was such a good pressure fighter that it would have been dangerous for Louis at every point in the fight. Louis did have a habit of leaving his chin dangling, and the short stocky Marciano would have been poised to spring on it.

With regard to Walcott, Walcott gave Louis problems in both their fights, and was an exceptionally skilfull fighter, and was somewhat underrated as a heavyweight. Having your ears boxed off by Walcott is no great shame, and the fact is Marciano got to him in the end.

[Jaclem]

.......i know fat can't be trained into muscle...bad writing on my part. what i meant to say was the fat was trained (and dieted)away....and replaced by muscle. if fat could be trained into muscle i'd be at the health club now instead of sitting here at my computer.

i also read the quiote about not liking being crowded. a few fighters Al McCoy for one) did just that against the bomber...and he knocked them coo coo anyway.

[silkov]

Even now weight training is frowned upon by many trainers, and even the huge frank bruno only did light weights, not serious bodybuilding routines.

Just a side note. You CANNOT train fat into muscle. Muscles fibres grow with training, fat cells shrink from consuming more calories than are ingested, the two are unrelated processes.

One comment is worth noting. Louis himself once said something about how he figured he would have fared against Marciano in his prime.

"One thing that nobody ever knew about me, was that I hated to be crowded, all through my career

Now maybe Joe was just being modest, as he was a pretty modest kind of guy or at least presented that image.

I do not rate the Rock that highly, in the pantheon of Heavyweight champions, but Marciano for his size was a devastating puncher. Like Louis, his punches travelled very short distances on a tight arc, and if Louis could get dropped by Tony Galento, then Marciano sure as hell could of.

I think if Rocky got Louis in serious trouble, he wouldn't have hesistated to finish him, Rocky was a ruthless finisher.

The matchup of styles would have been a good one. Louis had the superior skills, but Rocky was just so hard to deter and was such a good pressure fighter that it would have been dangerous for Louis at every point in the fight. Louis did have a habit of leaving his chin dangling, and the short stocky Marciano would have been poised to spring on it.

With regard to Walcott, Walcott gave Louis problems in both their fights, and was an exceptionally skilfull fighter, and was somewhat underrated as a heavyweight. Having your ears boxed off by Walcott is no great shame, and the fact is Marciano got to him in the end.

I see your points but Marciano didn't exactly overwhelm even a shot Louis, his win was more a wearing down process... Louis ran out of gas. So my thinking is that theres no gurentee that Marciano would have got a peak Louis in trouble if it took him 8 rounds to get over a very faded Bomber. Louis could be floored in his prime but usually got up and koed his opponent soon after. I think Prime vs Prime Louis would bang Marciano up and win by about 12th round ko.
I've always thought Louis struggled with movers and quick fighters... Farr, Conn, Walcott.... its fair to say that Louis was already past his best when he fought Walcott, though Walcotts style would probably always have given the Bomber a headache.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Yeah walcott was sort of his version of Ali's kenny norton.