Just how hard would it be to set up a UFC type body 4 boxing

[Jeff Thomas]

OK, I dislike MMA.

I find it an eyesore and its miles behind boxing in terms of watchability and skill, however Dana White has to credited with a frankly amazing idea that has changed the dynamics of the way in which fighting sports are managed and promoted forever.

Playing my UFC game on my 360 yesterday (i'm a geek I accept) it really began to strike home how much boxing is suffering from all these piece of shite titles and all these crappy matches involving eastern european white collar boxers against former ABA champions and worse still olympic representatives/champions.

But the thing is, that Cage fighting itself has these terrible match-ups too, and also the spurios titles (think thats a word). Cage Rage, undisputed and all the other franchises have more titles on offer then the wba, bc, bo, bf etc etc combined.

But cleverly what the UFC has done is hand pick fighters to compete under its umbrella. This positive hand picking in turn gurantees fans of the UFC a great night of high quality and relevant action. Real fights, real fighters.

Better yet, look at the www.ufc.com website. How simple is it for fans to pick up the news about these 'elite' fighters? look at their records? (sorry boxrec) check video's? see previous events?

I really do think this idea could work in boxing. It just needs a credible head man who is in touch with the fans and money. UFC has set out a great template for success. Fans don't want to see 47-0. They want to see good fights.

Anyone agree, disagree?

If I won the lottery afew times i'd do it!!!

[Jeff Thomas]

Add to this the MASSIVE amount of sponsorship within the Sport.

People would sponsor a boxer before an MMA fighter for me.... Boxing has that greater history... its regarded in greater esteem.

[damianhucker1]

Add to this the MASSIVE amount of sponsorship within the Sport.

People would sponsor a boxer before an MMA fighter for me.... Boxing has that greater history... its regarded in greater esteem.

Whilst us on here , im sure would like to see something like this , boxing is too political to even get close to it , a promotor has to be able to get the easiest opponent for the best money the majority of the time , and so only the bravest , most confident fighters/promotors would go for it , if for example warren could get 1 million for kell brook to fight 3 world level opponents or get 800k for 3 sub standard easy wins you and i know exactly which route he would take , as would most other promotors ( those figures fr brook were just random before anyone starts jumping up and down )

So long and short of it is , whilst we might fancy something like that a promotor will unlikely see it as good business , its something that unless some major financial disaster occured in boxing , we would be unlikely to ever see it .

[dondada]

If someone with Roman Abramovich's money entered the sport rather than going to Chelsea, it would have been done by now.

Just needs someone with a lot of money who is prepared to throw pots at it for a few years and have the bottle to stick it out - like Murdoch in the early days of Sky telly in Britain.

The current model is awful.

[dondada]

For all the positives of the UFC, you cannot escape the fact that the man universally regarded as the best heavyweight mixed martial artist ever, does not and has not ever fought under their umbrella.

I don't know anything about it Macho...but whoever it is, would he have done had the money been right? That's what it's all about.

[Poncey]

People said the same thing about wrestling in the 70s. There too many Promoters en it was regional based. Then McMahon Jr inherited the NY territory, got a TV deal and destroyed every regional promoter over the course of a decade, whilst also snatching their talent. I certainly think it can be done in one country.

The UFC doesn't have a worldwide hold on MMA. Yet.

[Glyn Leach]

What the UFC HAS achieved is to become the face of MMA in the USA and the success of the company has snowballed worldwide as a result. The difference in regard to boxing is that MMA in America had no real profile when Dana White's crew took over the UFC. He was able to reinvent it and present it as a new product. Boxing, obviously, is not a new product.

Only now are we starting to see rival American MMA promotions even attempt to challenge the UFC. But boxing is not there to be taken and reinvented in the way that the UFC was. There are already many successful promoters in boxing, all of whom would love the degree of power and autonomy that White has with the UFC. But boxing promoters will never achieve it. Golden Boy, for all their clout and cash, have had the best shot at getting somewhere close, but they have failed and will fail, just as any other pre-eminent boxing promoter has failed over the last few decades — and they've all tried.

The best that boxing can hope for is to learn from the UFC's presentation and marketing, which is still, 10 years on, innovative within combat sports and has resulted in a very popular product which attracts the corporate advertising that Jeff mentions, but which continues to elude boxing.

[Jeff Thomas]

What the UFC HAS achieved is to become the face of MMA in the USA and the success of the company has snowballed worldwide as a result. The difference in regard to boxing is that MMA in America had no real profile when Dana White's crew took over the UFC. He was able to reinvent it and present it as a new product. Boxing, obviously, is not a new product.

Only now are we starting to see rival American MMA promotions even attempt to challenge the UFC. But boxing is not there to be taken and reinvented in the way that the UFC was. There are already many successful promoters in boxing, all of whom would love the degree of power and autonomy that White has with the UFC. But boxing promoters will never achieve it. Golden Boy, for all their clout and cash, have had the best shot at getting somewhere close, but they have failed and will fail, just as any other pre-eminent boxing promoter has failed over the last few decades — and they've all tried.

The best that boxing can hope for is to learn from the UFC's presentation and marketing, which is still, 10 years on, innovative within combat sports and has resulted in a very popular product which attracts the corporate advertising that Jeff mentions, but which continues to elude boxing.

Thanks for replying Glyn, I still think there is scope for this despite what you say. I agree with most of your points, and when writing my post I was actually thinking of Golden Boy Promotions.

They are in the perfect position to take control of boxing I feel, all that it would take would be for them to say right we're starting this for the greater good of boxing and its fans.

They announce or set up tournaments in each division to crown a champion. If a titlist isn't willing to take part then they are out of the tournament thus cannot be crowned a legitimate champion.

There would have to be a board to decide the ratings as fairly as possible and the likes of HBO and all the various magazines around the world would have to provide publicise these correct official ratings. In return they would get free advertising on the bodies website and at the various events.

All governing bodies would be completely ignored. Various rules would be made to ensure that a fair volantary and mandatory defence procedure was in place.

I really think it would work but it would take a lot of people who care about thee sport to make a stand. But if HBO, the ring magazine and a major promotional body or a group of them wanted to do it enough ty could...

and their profits would probably go up 10 fold as result.

[SAPFO]

I have been saying this for ages. The closest we have to this is the Super 6. Fights we want to see, albeit a few top players missing. How long does a boxer really need to rest for? If there was a weight by weight World Cup every few years that lasted a few months. Each card had an eliminator from each weight of the top ranked with the final being a MASSIVE event of weight by weight world title fights. I'm dreaming me.

Regarding Fedor, yes he is good, but ffs WHO has he fought in the last 5 years? There are a new generation of HW out there now and I personally think he would get smashed up quick time. His game is in a ring where he can escape. What the fornicate would he do if the likes of Carwin, Velazquez, Dos Santos or even Lesner got him up against the cage where he cannot escape? They would KO him. Sorry, but at this moment Fedor = Haye, his record consists of UFC cast offs & old has beens over the last few years. UFC have offered him shed loads of cash, but he has his promotion M1 Global which he co promotes with Strikeforce, hence the reason he wont go to the UFC as they don't need to co promote with anybody. He is fighting Overeem soon, his hardest test in 10 years. If you want to be the best, fight the best. Fedor needs to man up. IMO, he is not even top 10 due to the quality of opposition.

Take a look at the gym I train at. UFC insipred, and UFC fighters visit regularly. Much better than any boxing gym, although this is a full MMA place so all types of fighter train there. Take a look at the testimonials http://www.utcuk.com/facility.php

[Jeff Thomas]

I have been saying this for ages. The closest we have to this is the Super 6. Fights we want to see, albeit a few top players missing.

Regarding Fedor, yes he is good, but ffs WHO has he fought in the last 5 years? There are a new generation of HW out there now and I personally think he would get smashed up quick time. His game is in a ring where he can escape. What the eff would he do if the likes of Carwin, Velazquez, Dos Santos or even Lesner got him up against the cage where he cannot escape? They would KO him. Sorry, but at this moment Fedor = Haye, his record consists of UFC cast offs & old has beens over the last few years. UFC have offered him shed loads of cash, but he has his promotion M1 Global which he co promotes with Strikeforce, hence the reason he wont go to the UFC as they don't need to co promote with anybody. He is fighting Overeem soon, his hardest test in 10 years. If you want to be the best, fight the best. Fedor needs to man up. IMO, he is not even top 10 due to the quality of opposition.

Take a look at the gym I train at. UFC insipred, and UFC fighters visit regularly. Much better than any boxing gym, although this is a full MMA place so all types of fighter train there. Take a look at the testimonials http://www.utcuk.com/facility.php

Ha ha i've not even got on to that Carl, MMA is so far ahead then 99% of boxing gyms in terms of functional and specific training its untrue. Not talking about your top gyms like Arnies, Billys, Joe's, Kev Maree's etc... but your lower gyms ran by whoever most do soooo many things physiologically wrong its untrue.

Its crazy some of the things i've seen done in gyms.Absolute madness.

[jamesmcdonnell]

If someone with Roman Abramovich's money entered the sport rather than going to Chelsea, it would have been done by now.

Just needs someone with a lot of money who is prepared to throw pots at it for a few years and have the bottle to stick it out - like Murdoch in the early days of Sky telly in Britain.

The current model is awful.

The major difference is that UFC, Cage Rage and Pride etc, are all effectively brands with their own rulebook. They are backed by serious money, and also act as the promoter.

We would probably be better off if boxing was entirely run by the promoters, and got rid of the governing bodies, as they aren't really needed. If the local commissions were better organised they could do the job of administrating the sport in the background, whilst the promoters build the stables of fighters and organise the events. It's working for UFC, but one of the benefits I think there, is that UFC are so far ahead of the competition, that effectively you only really have a single belt worth having, at least that's the perception.

I love UFC, I think it's great, there are some crap matchups for sure, but they never last long, and you don't need to sit through 45 minutes of tedium when there's a shite title match.

It is quite possible however, that somewhere down the line, there is a schism in the UFC, and a breakaway organisation starts, much like we had with the WBA, then WBC, then IBF. Each formed as a faction from the other. If that happens then we would end up no doubt with the same situation in UFC, as with boxing.

Right now MMA is pretty much ruled by one man, Dana White, a relatively munificent dictator, and dictatorships tend to be stable, whilst they last. Dana can't run the sport on his own for ever, and he has powerful backers who could turn on him at some point and force him out.

[jamesmcdonnell]

For all the positives of the UFC, you cannot escape the fact that the man universally regarded as the best heavyweight mixed martial artist ever, does not and has not ever fought under their umbrella.

Who is that out of interest? I thought that Brazilian dude Anderson Silva, was regarded by most as the best?

[Glyn Leach]

Fedor Emelianenko, a heavyweight who fights for Strikeforce. Doubt he has the size to handle the UFC's new breed of big men though, they're colossal and very roidy looking

[Poncey]

I respectfully disagree MM. He's not the fighter he once was. I'd also argue that technically UFC no longer have the numer 1 lightweight or number 2 middleweight.

OOI, how would people feel about a singlepromoter per country/area with all fighters filing it out at an annual event to determine the best at a weight. Eg the best of Germany v best of UK?

[SAPFO]

Fedor Emelianenko, a heavyweight who fights for Strikeforce. Doubt he has the size to handle the UFC's new breed of big men though, they're colossal and very roidy looking

Fedor might not look like he should be taking to the stage of a bodybuilding contest but he has the skills, functionality and mindset to easily defeat any UFC heavyweight.

As far as the numbers go, 31-1... the defeat was for a cut.

"His competition, has been pretty lame... some people want to say that beating Sylvia, Arlovski, Cro Cop, Rogers, Coleman, Randleman, and Cro Cop is impressive... and it is, kind of... but to be honest, I would be shocked if UFC fighters Anderson Silva, Randy Couture, GSP, Lesnar, Shane Carwin, or Cain Velasquez ever lost a single fight to any of those opponents. I would even expect light weight champion B.J. pen to have a winning record against that competition.

The only two wins that stand out on his record are his two wins over Big Nog. So, his last significant win was almost five years ago, and he had a chance to fight the best in the world but he decided to be a business man instead of a fighter.

So, Fedor is "good", and until he decides to stop fighting push overs and step it up to the big leagues he will only be "good", not the "best fighter in the world".

[Deserter]

No-one has addressed the fact that one of the biggest hurdles is the fact that top boxers can still earn vastly more than their UFC counterparts inside the ring (i.e. ignoring sponsorship deals) due to the difference in the way the fighters are contracted.

[Poncey]

Poncey & Carl, who would beat him, in your opinions? Not Carwin or Lesnar, surely.

Definitely Carwin. Juries out on Lesnar. As someone mntioned on here, Fedor has always struggled with monster fighters (see Fujita). Bigfoot Silva (now that his standup has improved at ATT) and also Overeem (the best HW striker there is now).

I would happily lay down £100 to anyone on here that Fedor will not beat Werdum and Overeem When they fight.

He's too reliant on his baseball overhand right nowadays.

[SAPFO]

Wedum already has one Emelianenko scalp in the form of his younger brother Aleksander, although he is not in Fedors league. I would say Carwin, Velazques 100%, and maybe Dos Santos. Wedum is next for him, and then Overeem, who will be in the UFC after he pans Fedor I bet.

[Poncey]

No-one has addressed the fact that one of the biggest hurdles is the fact that top boxers can still earn vastly more than their UFC counterparts inside the ring (i.e. ignoring sponsorship deals) due to the difference in the way the fighters are contracted.

Yes and no. If you're on an untelevised card you get much much more in UFC, hell even just straight MMA.

[Glyn Leach]

Small purses is another bonus of a promoter being able to build from scratch — at the point Dana White took over the UFC, America's MMA fighters would have been grateful for ANY money. Once the wage structure is established it is adhered to, as it is in boxing. If someone were to pay more than the UFC, they might have an issue. But it's still the richest MMA promotion out there so that's unlikely any time soon.

[FLINT ISLAND]

[. Fans don't want to see 47-0. They want to see good fights. [/quote]

Is that a sly little dig at Joe Calzaghe and the way allegedly handled his career Jeff ?

[reggaereggae]

No-one has addressed the fact that one of the biggest hurdles is the fact that top boxers can still earn vastly more than their UFC counterparts inside the ring (i.e. ignoring sponsorship deals) due to the difference in the way the fighters are contracted.

Also,the UFC is effectively the promoter AND the governing body at the same time. You cannot fight outside of the UFC if you're signed to them.

It would be like the WBC signig fighters and then these fighters are not allowed to fight in non-WBC sponsored fights.

This would be a disaster in boxing. It's a terrible idea.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Fedor Emelianenko, a heavyweight who fights for Strikeforce. Doubt he has the size to handle the UFC's new breed of big men though, they're colossal and very roidy looking

Yes, there's no doubt that the likes of Evan Carson and especially Brock Lesnar have extremely suspicious builds, 265 lbs of rippling muscle in both cases. Lesnar is also scarily fast for such an enormous man.

Lesnar was arrested for possession of steroids, but it turned out the be HGH, so he wasn't charged.

Couture, for all of his skills, was absolutely steamrollered by Lesnar, and Evan Carson has knocked out everyone he's fought in the first round.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Poncey & Carl, who would beat him, in your opinions? Not Carwin or Lesnar, surely.

Carwin and Lesnar may not seem that skilled, but they are both devastating strikers, and Lesnar is a former amateur wrestling champ with very good skills on the ground.

In MMA you only need to land one big shot and it's all over.

[whatashambles]

It won't be long before there is a break away group from the UFC. You only need to look at the purses of the fighters from UFC 114 to see that. Rashid Evans the winner in the main event got just over $400,000 and that was a big fight against Rampage.
Mayweather would make 100x that for a fight with Pacquiao.
Lesnar made $400,00 for his fight with Mir at UFC 100, compare that with Klitschko's fight against Sosnowski and the reports he made more than €20 million for it.
Now bear in mind UFC 100 took $5 mill for it's live gate and did a PPV buyrate of 1.5 million at $50. Say the UFC take 1/3 of the PPV money, that's $30 mill total and the total cost of purses was under $2 million.
The UFC has a monopoly for now but as the sport grows they'll struggle to keep hold