Top 10 HWs post 1970 (non-current)

[gambler49]

1. Holmes
2. Foreman
3. Ali
4. Frazier
5. Tyson
6. Lewis
7. Holyfield
8. Norton
9. Bowe
10. Witherspoon

[dempseyfire]

Ali's post 1970 still destroys those of Holmes and Foreman, and he beat a prime Foreman, so I don't get why you made him number #3. It's Frazier who takes the biggest hit here IMO, as besides the great Ali win he only has Buger and a worn-out Ellis in their rematch as notable scalps. BtW Holyfield is still active.

1) Ali

2) Foreman

3) Holmes

4) Lewis

5) Tyson

6) Frazier

7) Norton

8) Young

9) Bowe

10) Lyle

[Jaywheel]

8 ) makes yet another victim...

[gambler49]

Ali's post 1970 still destroys those of Holmes and Foreman, and he beat a prime Foreman, so I don't get why you made him number #3. It's Frazier who takes the biggest hit here IMO, as besides the great Ali win he only has Buger and a worn-out Ellis in their rematch as notable scalps. BtW Holyfield is still active.

1) Ali

2) Holmes

3) Foreman

4) Lewis

5) Tyson

6) Frazier

7) Norton

8) Young

9) Bowe

10) Lyle

LOL.. I forgot that Holy is active... Ur list is very reasonable. But.... How comes u hav Holmes ahead of Foreman? On ur other list u hav Foreman ahead.
I think Frazier looked so good in his fight wiv Ali in 71! Which is the reason I rank him high.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Ali
Holmes
Holyfield
Foreman
Frazier
Lewis
Bowe
Tyson
Norton
Young

[dempseyfire]

Ali's post 1970 still destroys those of Holmes and Foreman, and he beat a prime Foreman, so I don't get why you made him number #3. It's Frazier who takes the biggest hit here IMO, as besides the great Ali win he only has Buger and a worn-out Ellis in their rematch as notable scalps. BtW Holyfield is still active.

1) Ali

2) Holmes

3) Foreman

4) Lewis

5) Tyson

6) Frazier

7) Norton

8) Young

9) Bowe

10) Lyle

LOL.. I forgot that Holy is active... Ur list is very reasonable. But.... How comes u hav Holmes ahead of Foreman? On ur other list u hav Foreman ahead.
I think Frazier looked so good in his fight wiv Ali in 71! Which is the reason I rank him high.

Correction made. Shows you how close I think it is between them . . .

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You make a good point about Frazier.

[Goodnight, Irene]

8 ) makes yet another victim...

Gets 'em every time

[Mr E]

Excluding the Klitschko brothers on the grounds that they're "current":

1-Muhammad Ali
2-Larry Holmes
3-George Foreman
4-Lennox Lewis
5-Joe Frazier
6-Riddick Bowe
7-Evander Holyfield
8-Mike Tyson
9-Michael Spinks
10-Jimmy Young

Some guys I consider to be generally UNDERrated (chron order): Jimmy Young, Mike Weaver, Michael Spinks, Gerry Cooney, Tim Witherspoon, Pinklon Thomas, Riddick Bowe, Chris Byrd

Some guys I consider to be generally OVERrated (chron order): Oscar Bonavena, Ken Norton, Mike Tyson, Michael Moorer

[Badhusker]

I personally wouldn't put Holmes that high. He was very good but would have been KO'd by Foreman easily. Shavers had him knocked out but couldn't finish. Holmes was a great sparring partner for Ali I believe. I also think a prime Tyson (first 5 years as a pro) could be higher.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I personally wouldn't put Holmes that high. He was very good but would have been KO'd by Foreman easily. Shavers had him knocked out but couldn't finish. Holmes was a great sparring partner for Ali I believe. I also think a prime Tyson (first 5 years as a pro) could be higher.

They're talking about post-1980, so you're talking about Holmes in his pomp (80-82) against Foreman from 87-onwards. Still so sure Foreman KO's him easily?

[WelshDevil]

I personally wouldn't put Holmes that high. He was very good but would have been KO'd by Foreman easily. Shavers had him knocked out but couldn't finish. Holmes was a great sparring partner for Ali I believe. I also think a prime Tyson (first 5 years as a pro) could be higher.

They're talking about post-1980, so you're talking about Holmes in his pomp (80-82) against Foreman from 87-onwards. Still so sure Foreman KO's him easily?

Unless, I'm completely misreading the topic I'd say it was from 1970 onwards not 1980 onwards. I really couldn't see so many people rating the 80's Ali so high, if at all in their lists.

[jezzamundo]

It feels wrong not to put Holyfield in this, but seeing as he is still active:

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Foreman
4. Lewis
5. Frazier
6. Tyson
7. Norton
8. Bowe
9. Young
10. Lyle

[jrc26]

Excluding the Klitschko brothers on the grounds that they're "current":

1-Muhammad Ali
2-Larry Holmes
3-George Foreman
4-Lennox Lewis
5-Joe Frazier
6-Riddick Bowe
7-Evander Holyfield
8-Mike Tyson
9-Michael Spinks
10-Jimmy Young

Some guys I consider to be generally UNDERrated (chron order): Jimmy Young, Mike Weaver, Michael Spinks, Gerry Cooney, Tim Witherspoon, Pinklon Thomas, Riddick Bowe, Chris Byrd

Some guys I consider to be generally OVERrated (chron order): Oscar Bonavena, Ken Norton, Mike Tyson, Michael Moorer

HEAVYWEIGHTS not LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHTS. Although his 2 controversial decisions against a 36 year old Holmes and beating Gerry Cooney who had fought 1 round in 3 years were all huge wins , I don't exactly see how he makes the top ten of anything heavyweight. Other than maybe top 10 guys who robbed the public of a fight by collecting a paycheck and then sailing off into the sunset. He wasn't even generous enough to try for at least a round before quitting against Mike.

He was a great Olympic and light heavyweight fighter though, I can't say anything about that. Leon might better deserve a spot on the heavyweight list than he does.

[Jaywheel]

Spinks does not belong there.

[Mr E]

[HEAVYWEIGHTS not LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHTS. Although his 2 controversial decisions against a 36 year old Holmes and beating Gerry Cooney who had fought 1 round in 3 years were all huge wins , I don't exactly see how he makes the top ten of anything heavyweight. Other than maybe top 10 guys who robbed the public of a fight by collecting a paycheck and then sailing off into the sunset. He wasn't even generous enough to try for at least a round before quitting against Mike.

He was a great Olympic and light heavyweight fighter though, I can't say anything about that. Leon might better deserve a spot on the heavyweight list than he does.

Not two controversial decisions over Holmes -- just one. Are you saying you could make an argument for Holmes winning the first fight? If so, you are in a small minority and I could not disagree with you more. The rematch was very close -- could have been a draw, maybe Holmes deserved the nod. But Holmes was fitter and better in that 2nd fight than he had been in years and whether he deserved the nod or not Spinks fought a helluva fight. Leon wouldn't have lasted 8 rounds with him on the best night he ever saw.

[Mr E]

Spinks does not belong there.

Who do you like ahead of him?

[HomicideHenry]

1. Ali [even the old Ali bested Norton, Frazier and Foreman]
2. Holmes
3. Lewis
4. Holyfield
5. Tyson
6. Foreman
7. Frazier
8. Norton
9. Witherspoon
10. Bowe/Moorer

[jrc26]

[HEAVYWEIGHTS not LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHTS. Although his 2 controversial decisions against a 36 year old Holmes and beating Gerry Cooney who had fought 1 round in 3 years were all huge wins , I don't exactly see how he makes the top ten of anything heavyweight. Other than maybe top 10 guys who robbed the public of a fight by collecting a paycheck and then sailing off into the sunset. He wasn't even generous enough to try for at least a round before quitting against Mike.

He was a great Olympic and light heavyweight fighter though, I can't say anything about that. Leon might better deserve a spot on the heavyweight list than he does.

Not two controversial decisions over Holmes -- just one. Are you saying you could make an argument for Holmes winning the first fight? If so, you are in a small minority and I could not disagree with you more. The rematch was very close -- could have been a draw, maybe Holmes deserved the nod. But Holmes was fitter and better in that 2nd fight than he had been in years and whether he deserved the nod or not Spinks fought a helluva fight. Leon wouldn't have lasted 8 rounds with him on the best night he ever saw.

Fair enough, but I am of the mind that the challenger should have to take the title from the linear heavyweight champion who is 48-0. He fought a smart and careful fight, while Holmes looked un-inspired at times. I have watched the fight several times, and when it is that close it usually goes to the champion. All things being equal Ali would have been given that decision against Spinks and so would several other fighters. I think a large segment was sick of him and was not happy with some of his pre-fight talk about the 49-0 record.

I will give you that if I scored it blind without knowing who the fighters were, I would probably had Spinks by a round or 2. A champion like that usually gets the benefit of the doubt in close ounds though, which he didn't.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Holmes got his breaks against Witherspoon & Weaver --- arguably Norton too, when he was not the WBC's incumbent. You win some, you lose some. Holmes only decisively came out a winner in their rematch, the first fight was Spinks' or, at worst, Holmes by a point or two.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I thought the first fight was decisively for Spinks. The second one was an odd situation. I think it was pretty easy to score, first 8 rds Holmes and the last seven for Spinks on my card with the ninth being close. Yet, it's still tough for me to call a fight a robbery that I scored 8-7 even though I can't see any reason to give one of the first 8 rds to Spinks.

[Mr E]

I thought the first fight was decisively for Spinks. The second one was an odd situation. I think it was pretty easy to score, first 8 rds Holmes and the last seven for Spinks on my card with the ninth being close. Yet, it's still tough for me to call a fight a robbery that I scored 8-7 even though I can't see any reason to give one of the first 8 rds to Spinks.

I saw those fights pretty much the same way you did.

[dempseyfire]

I don't remember Spinks sweeping the last 7 rounds . . .wasn't he seriously hurt at some pt late in the fight?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I don't remember Spinks sweeping the last 7 rounds . . .wasn't he seriously hurt at some pt late in the fight?

I think the fourteenth he may have been rocked but he came back and drilled Holmes with a slew of right hands. I haven't watched it in ages, maybe I'll flip it in tonight.

[hhaehre]

1. Ali
2. Foreman
3. Lewis
4. Tyson
5. Holmes
6. Frazier
7. Norton
8. Bowe
9. Young
10. Lyle/Quarry

A retired Holyfield would have been in at no. 7