Ali(1974) vs Tyson (1988)

[gambler49]

12 rounds:
I go 4 Ali points or possible late TKO
It's easy 2 think at 1st Tyson will fk him up... But wiv deeper thought I cant see Tyson beating this Ali. If u watch da 1st round of da Biggs vs Tyson fight u will see wat Ali would do for say 4 or 5 of those rounds, and he would hustle at least 4 of the others. He wouldn't do rope a dope wiv Tyson im sure of that.

[yancey]

I lose track of time, was 1988 Tyson's peak?

If so, I would be a little leery of '74 Ali surviving that early onslaught. He would have to use all his tricks.

'64-'71 Ali survives and prevails.

[dempseyfire]

Ali beats a peak Tyson up through the Zaire fight. I do think the Manila Ali (and of course every subsequent version) loses.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I lose track of time, was 1988 Tyson's peak?

If so, I would be a little leery of '74 Ali surviving that early onslaught. He would have to use all his tricks.

'64-'71 Ali survives and prevails.

Not bad. I'm with you on this one. I can't decide with clear certainty, given the timeframes. In some ways, Tyson was much more dangerous than Foreman --- & no one here needs any intro to my admiration for Foreman, that's for sure.

[Bricks]

Ali was still a tremendous physical specimen in 1974.He was still fast and could box beautifully and he had also added the rope a dope strategy in his gameplan in training around this time.

Tysons key assets in 1988 were his speed,his aura of invincibility, his defence, and power with either hand.

I think Joe Frazier had superior stamina and work rate, but Tyson had a right hand as well just as good as his left, his right uppercut and cross were fighting ending weapons in 1988 weapons but this is Ali he is fighting and against Ali the same rules dont apply as against other men.

Imo Tyson also had more of a plan B if plan A didn't work than Frazier or Foreman at this stage.

Its a very very hard fight to call it would be just as hard a fight for Ali to win as the 1971 Frazier clash and the rumble in the jungle. But I think Ali finds a way to win thats my hunch. I wouldn't discount him stopping Tyson either. But it would be another fight for the ages.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Ali was still a tremendous physical specimen in 1974. He was still fast and could box beautifully and he had also added the rope a dope strategy in his gameplan in training around this time.

Tysons key assets in 1988 were his speed,his aura of invincibility, his defence, and power with either hand.

I think Joe Frazier had superior stamina and work rate, but Tyson had a right hand as well just as good as his left, his right uppercut and cross were fighting ending weapons in 1988 weapons but this is Ali he is fighting and against Ali the same rules dont apply as against other men.

Imo Tyson also had more of a plan B if plan A didn't work than Frazier or Foreman at this stage.

Its a very very hard fight to call it would be just as hard a fight for Ali to win as the 1971 Frazier clash and the rumble in the jungle. But I think Ali finds a way to win thats my hunch. I wouldn't discount him stopping Tyson either. But it would be another fight for the ages.

Not so. The rope-a-dope was employed, unsuccessfully, in the first skirmish with Frazier, three years earlier.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Tyson never had a plan B, he wasn't a bright enough fighter to change on the fly or do any sort of improvisation. He was a programmed robot of destruction. That's why he never really learned how to fight on the inside. He had that one awesome combo with the right to the body and the uppercut to the head. But he had no idea how to move in there and create angles. He would jsut throw a punch and then clinch. He just couldn't transfer information into the ring. Very dumb fighter, but probably a more intelligent guy outside of the ring than he gets credit for.

[BoxBuzz]

Man, I truly believe that the man with FAR superior psyche will win this hands down going away. Just as Tyson had so many fighters beaten before they entered the ring, it would be a boomerang effect in this case. Ali would have Tyson convinced that Tyson was mortal before they entered the ring, and Ali would poke huge holes in Tyson's confidence early on in this fight. Ali might get tagged and that would only dampen Tyson's spirits more when he does not fold on cue. I see very little hope of Tyson being vertical at the end of the fight, and even less hope that if that miracle should happen Tyson could win a decision.


I would put my house and boat on Ali, and I think it would be just about the best bet you could ever make. Barring a complete fluke. And yep when two great HW's enter the ring, a fluke can happen.

[Counter-puncher]

mental strength would be how i would split them too, buzz, even (just about) the 1974 Alio, though i'd be happier calling this fight for the 71 version.

[Crease]

I can see Ali dancing to a points victory... But Tyson could score a knockdown.

[gambler49]

I can see Ali dancing to a points victory... But Tyson could score a knockdown.

I can't!
I think Ali had it in him to get on his toes for about 33% of the fight. Prolly inda early stages that is 4 rounds inda first 7 or 8. He would out muscle him and out hustle him in the remainder. Where Tyson was a bit weaker. I see Tyson maybe winning 3 rounds. The 60s version would dance to victory.

[Crease]

I can't! I think Ali had it in him to get on his toes for about 33% of the fight.

Indeed and that is why we agree on the result, we both think that Ali would be too quick, fleet-footed and slick for Tyson.

However, i think it's important to point ou that Mike Tyson was no slouch...
Okay he planted his feet to land the heavy shots, but he could get around the ring... If he couldn't close the ring off, he wouldn't have score as many KO's.

Tyson's punch power and combinations would be a concern for Ali, but Ali is something else.
Could Ali avoid Tyson for 15 whole rounds? I don't think so, Tyson would catch him in my opinion...
(Didn't Frazier catch Ali?)

But yeah, I've got it an Ali victory.

[Badhusker]

Ali could take a punch, (ask Foreman, Lyle, Frazier, Norton, Shavers....all heavy hitters) and would have frustrated Tyson beyond belief. Tyson had the power, but he didn't have Foreman's power. Foreman destroyed Frazier twice, and Norton. The Ali of the early 70's was good, but no match for the Ali of the 60's. The 3.5 year layoff between 67 and 70 showed during his loss to Frazier, and definitely was not the same fighter.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Ali could take a punch, (ask Foreman, Lyle, Frazier, Norton, Shavers....all heavy hitters) and would have frustrated Tyson beyond belief. Tyson had the power, but he didn't have Foreman's power. Foreman destroyed Frazier twice, and Norton. The Ali of the early 70's was good, but no match for the Ali of the 60's. The 3.5 year layoff between 67 and 70 showed during his loss to Frazier, and definitely was not the same fighter.

I think the overall gap between Ali 67 & Ali 71 is over-stated.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Same, post layoff was much more durable. People act like he didn't have any tough fights before the layoff. And the next time I hear about Cleveland Williams being his greatest performance I will heave. Williams was shot, literally.

Ali fought against an insane level of competition. That always has fans searching for slippage. In my honest opinion, pre-layoff Ali would have been stopped by the Frazier he faced the first time.

[Badhusker]

So you are saying the Ali of the 60's was not as good as the Ali of the 70's? The reason Ali had to switch his style is because he was heavier, had slower reflexes, and less movement. He still was great, but not the same. Liston was much like Foreman I thought in style and punching power, and that didn't go well for him. Ali in 74 was not as good as Ali 64-67.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I think he was great both times and had advantages in each phase of his career. You're the one saying he was definitively better pre-layoff.

I'm saying that he couldn't have handled what Frazier threw at him pre-layoff. I totally believe that. As for which Ali was better, I don't really have a choice. Like I said, the competition level after the layoff was ridiculous. I'm just certain that many people romanticize pre-layoff Ali to the point of underrating him when he came back.