Holmes vs Tunney

[gambler49]

15 rounds:
Holmes wins a clear UD
I think Tunney has no chance in this match...

[Mr E]

I favor Holmes but I don't think it's either a runaway or a no-brainer by any means.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I agree with Gambler for the most part, terrible match up for Gene. Though i have a hard time putting no chance next to Tunney. But I'd favor Larry fairly clearly.

[gambler49]

I agree with Gambler for the most part, terrible match up for Gene. Though i have a hard time putting no chance next to Tunney. But I'd favor Larry fairly clearly.

Yea "no chance" was extreme. I get passionat sumtimes.
Fair comment Saad.

[punchoutsb]

There have been less than a handful of fighters Gene Tunney would have no chance against, and Holmes isn't one of them. Holmes size and tremendous jab would obviously give Tunney trouble, but I still think Gene would win.

I probably underrate Holmes, but most over rate him badly. I still think Norton beat him, and that was an old washed up Norton. True that Holmes was past his best at the time, but he did drop two to Mike Spinks, who was in no way superior to Gene Tunney.

Basically it all hinges on if Tunney could handle Holmes size and jab, which I think he could! Tunney by decision.

[gambler49]

Can the guys that picked Tunney, please explain how?

[gambler49]

There have been less than a handful of fighters Gene Tunney would have no chance against, and Holmes isn't one of them. Holmes size and tremendous jab would obviously give Tunney trouble, but I still think Gene would win.

I probably underrate Holmes, but most over rate him badly. I still think Norton beat him, and that was an old washed up Norton. True that Holmes was past his best at the time, but he did drop two to Mike Spinks, who was in no way superior to Gene Tunney.

Basically it all hinges on if Tunney could handle Holmes size and jab, which I think he could! Tunney by decision.

Surley u don't think he won da 2nd fight? He was robbed.

[punchoutsb]

There have been less than a handful of fighters Gene Tunney would have no chance against, and Holmes isn't one of them. Holmes size and tremendous jab would obviously give Tunney trouble, but I still think Gene would win.

I probably underrate Holmes, but most over rate him badly. I still think Norton beat him, and that was an old washed up Norton. True that Holmes was past his best at the time, but he did drop two to Mike Spinks, who was in no way superior to Gene Tunney.

Basically it all hinges on if Tunney could handle Holmes size and jab, which I think he could! Tunney by decision.

Surley u don't think he won da 2nd fight? He was robbed.

I wouldn't call it a robbery. Holmes definately had a better outing than the first fight, but that's beside the point really. I don't think it was a robbery that Holmes beat Norton, but I felt like Norton won. The point is those fights were close enough that it leaves room for doubt. I think Tunney was far superior to Norton and Spinks. Style make fight granted, so take that for what it's worth. I just think Tunney would have outpointed Holmes to take the decision.

[Mr E]

You know, take another look at Holmes's performance against Lucien Rodriguez and that'll show you how a boxer like Tunney could cause Holmes some problems. Tunney had great cardio and was a tough, smart fighter. Holmes was not a big enough banger to just blow Tunney on outta there, Tunney was quick enough to land, and clever enough not to get hit all that much in the process. I do think Holmes had a little more of enough things to win this fight but I think Tunney is very very under-rated.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Holmes wins in a fight which is a lot closer than many would predict. Tunney was a smarter fighter than Holmes, could fight offensively in more effective fashion, & was more versatile, with fewer errors in his game.

Holmes' jab, size & style are real problems. I think they carry him through as much as anything, but this is no foregone white-wash, & if Tunney won? I would be mildly-surprised, but no more than that.

As a Heavy, Tunney is under-sold badly. There are few greats in division history I would give him little chance against. He was a genius of a fighter, & to my mind, the best Light-Heavyweight of all-time, sans none.

[Ambling Alp]

Well, I just weant to comment on a few things.
I don't think the Spinks fights have much bearing. Holmes was slipping by then. Tunney would probably do enough to beat that version of Holmes, but that is not being fair to Holmes.
I don't agree with the statement about Tunney being far superior to Norton. Pound for pound, yes Tunney was certainly better. However, as heavyweights I would only give Tunney a slight edge. More importantly, the Norton that fought Holmes fought possibly the best fight of his career. I don't think Tunney would beat the Norton that Holmes beat that night.

I do think Tunney is underrated by many. He many more fights against heavyweight than some people realize and doesn't get eonough credit for what he did at heavyweight. He is probably around the #15 heavyweight of All-Time.

Still, I would have to with Holmes in competitive fight. For the most part it would probably be a chess match. Holmes jab and reach advantage would be just enough to win a decision.

[Crease]

As a Heavy, Tunney is under-sold badly. There are few greats in division history I would give him little chance against. He was a genius of a fighter

X2

[Badhusker]

True. I think Tunney is the most under-rated fighter in history, at any weight. 66-1 only losing to Harry Greb, and avenging that several times. Way before his time. Very smart and skilled fighter, with good power having nearly 50 KO's.

If Spinks beat Holmes, Tunney would as he way way better than Spinks. The size difference and reach would be a factor though and make it a difficult fight for Gene. I always liked Holmes, but also thought he was a bad imitation of Ali...maybe from his sparring days with Ali. Had one of the best jabs of any heavy.

[gambler49]

True. I think Tunney is the most under-rated fighter in history, at any weight. 66-1 only losing to Harry Greb, and avenging that several times. Way before his time. Very smart and skilled fighter, with good power having nearly 50 KO's.

If Spinks beat Holmes, Tunney would as he way way better than Spinks. The size difference and reach would be a factor though and make it a difficult fight for Gene. I always liked Holmes, but also thought he was a bad imitation of Ali...maybe from his sparring days with Ali. Had one of the best jabs of any heavy.

#1 Tunney was not way better then Spinks.
#2 Holmes was past his best wen he fought Spinks, and he was robbed in the 2nd fight.
#3 Holmes was Technically better then Ali in almost everyway.

[Badhusker]

I think your love for Holmes has clouded your judgment. If Shavers wouldn't have gassed out he would have KO'd Holmes easily. How would that have affected his legacy? Spinks was basically a light heavy, and Holmes should have dominated him. Look what Tyson did to Spinks, and you say he compares to Tunney?

Holmes better than Ali technically in every way? Now that is funny. They had similar styles, and I am sure Holmes is better in some ways, but to say every way is laughable.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

True. I think Tunney is the most under-rated fighter in history, at any weight. 66-1 only losing to Harry Greb, and avenging that several times. Way before his time. Very smart and skilled fighter, with good power having nearly 50 KO's.

If Spinks beat Holmes, Tunney would as he way way better than Spinks. The size difference and reach would be a factor though and make it a difficult fight for Gene. I always liked Holmes, but also thought he was a bad imitation of Ali...maybe from his sparring days with Ali. Had one of the best jabs of any heavy.

#1 Tunney was not way better then Spinks.
#2 Holmes was past his best wen he fought Spinks, and he was robbed in the 2nd fight.
#3 Holmes was Technically better then Ali in almost everyway.

Agreed
Agreed
Agreed

[dempseyfire]

I agree Tunney would clearly beat the Holmes Spinks beat in their first fight, but Holmes was well past-his best by then. Larry's reflexes and general conditioning can be see deteriorating post-Cobb with each fight.

I think it's competitive but without the power to hurt Larry, Tunney would have to perform some magic to consistently outland Holmes and not get tagged with something big. I see Holmes left jab and reach winning him a clear victory.

As for technique, both Ali and Holmes actually did some rather unorthodox things boxing wise, but if it worked for them so be it. I think Holmes had a much more proper uppercut but beyond that I can't think of anything Holmes did much better 'technically' than Ali . . .

[gambler49]

I agree Tunney would clearly beat the Holmes Spinks beat in their first fight, but Holmes was well past-his best by then. Larry's reflexes and general conditioning can be see deteriorating post-Cobb with each fight.

I think it's competitive but without the power to hurt Larry, Tunney would have to perform some magic to consistently outland Holmes and not get tagged with something big. I see Holmes left jab and reach winning him a clear victory.

As for technique, both Ali and Holmes actually did some rather unorthodox things boxing wise, but if it worked for them so be it. I think Holmes had a much more proper uppercut but beyond that I can't think of anything Holmes did much better 'technically' than Ali . . .

#1 His guard
#2 Head movement (Ali had none)
#3 Slipping punches (Ali was poor)
#4 The Jab
#5 Holmes right cross was better (even tho Ali had a very good one)
#6 Holmes was a better body puncher

[Grimm]

True. I think Tunney is the most under-rated fighter in history, at any weight. 66-1 only losing to Harry Greb, and avenging that several times. Way before his time. Very smart and skilled fighter, with good power having nearly 50 KO's.

If Spinks beat Holmes, Tunney would as he way way better than Spinks. The size difference and reach would be a factor though and make it a difficult fight for Gene. I always liked Holmes, but also thought he was a bad imitation of Ali...maybe from his sparring days with Ali. Had one of the best jabs of any heavy.

#1 Tunney was not better then Spinks.
#2 Holmes was past his best wen he fought Spinks, and he was robbed in the 2nd fight.
#3 Holmes was Technically better then Ali in almost everyway.

Agreed
Agreed
Agreed

Fixed and

Agreed
Agreed
Agreed

[Grimm]

15 rounds:
Holmes wins a clear UD
I think Tunney has no chance in this match...

I think Holmes wins and I agree with the no chance statment