Mcdermot undercard truly awful

[winkveron]

Part of the problem is that most undercard fighters sell tickets to friends and family. They fight, the seats are filled, but when the fight is over many people bugger off to the bar. It must grate when a promoter puts on a decent undercard and people don't bother showing up for it, or do show up for it but shrug their shoulders and say, "I don't know his name, I'm off to the bar." As Macho implies, undercards work well when the fans have cross-loyalties.

Tickets, especially pricey ones, are often snapped up by casual fans or fans who only follow one specific fighter. This, coupled with the inability of UK fans to actually drink and enjoy an event without having to be treated like kids, means that seats are left empty on many occasions while the fans refuel after the hard graft of watching a single contest.

I don't drink but I hear that when you go to a UK show the bars are absolutely mental and under-staffed so people write off 2-3 fights simply to buy an over-priced beer, or five. Throw in the fact that water is taken away from people entering the venue and you have a situation where people have to leave their seats, and once out of them face a long period away from the main hall.

How many people come back into an arena, realise they've missed a few fights and moan that, "I only went out for a sodding drink of Pepsi!"

Press seats often sit empty until the main event(s) are scheduled to come on so if the guys who are, supposedly, obsessed with sport can't be arsed with the undercards then who are we to judge the blokes who are only there for one fight and a night out?

The waxing and waning of the crowd is the biggest problem at the moment, tickets do tend to sell but keeping people in their seats is not always easy, even if you've got a great undercard, as it requires people to concentrate for long periods without having a chance to refuel.

German promotions tend to maintain a good crowd as they can actually be trusted to bring drinks to their seats without having a total meltdown and attempting to stab fellow fans with bottles/cans/shredded up plastic cups.

Or after each fight there could be an announcement as to the exact time the next fight will begin? Then people could go to the bar/toilet and be back in time for the next fight.

[leforge]

Promotors should put fight times up in the venue!

[FtmPress]

I'm not so sure. Most promotions feature 'ticket sellers' of one sort or another, usually friends and family etc of the boxers. These people buy tickets to see those fighters but might not to watch boxing in general, whereas people on this forum probably watch an awful lot more boxing on TV than the fans of a 'ticket seller'. I think it's important to try and convert the TV fans into ticket buyers, so the views of armchair fans are valid.

What do you think Frank? And yes, this is a good thread, very productive.

I agree with this

[Brit Ryan]

Random thoughts:
(1) I probably go to about 12 shows a year and usually go to the trouble of going to Frank's shows if I can as they are some of the best
(2) It would be a mistake to reduce the number of fighters on bills. The sport relies on having a regular supply of guys making their way in the sport - not all of whom will ever make it to champion level.
(3) Don't knock the quality of oppos too much - its a nightmare at the moment to get people - lot of people are out of training
(4) Don't knock all Latvians - lets not forget Alex Spitko
(5) I have to say I really appreciate at least 2 decent undercard scraps - less than that and I do feel that the show was probably crap
(6) I think we really need to shift more tickets (not easy at the moment BTW). I agree that the problem is attracting back those who used to attend shows because they loved them and were not just attending to support their mates
(7) Show's would be greatly improved if anybody who started chanting "There's only one ....." got tied to the corner posts
(8) I understand why some fights on a bill are going to be crap - just let me know in the bar when its over and I can emerge blinking into the light of Goresbrook Leisure Centre
(9) Frank - just one appeal - for the travelling fans there is only one town where you put on shows which is irredeemably sh*t and that's Wigan - please save me from EVER going there again

[HomeOfBritishBoxing]

I was wondering how to take that question: Was it a genuine enquiry or was it a dig at the site members? Be good if Frank could clear that up.

This is not a dig at anybody, I beleive is a fair quetion to ask. I know for a fact that some of the posters have never brought a tick for anyones show.There are 2 times of fans in boxing these days the ones who go to shows and the armchair fans.It would be good to know the percentage of what this forum is made up of.

i suggest you make a thread and do a poll frank

[gasman]

"Cards with 50-50 or evenly matched fights are idealistic - they will never happen - you will never get managers of top prospects to agree to this".

Would you agree with that Frank?

How do you get more 50-50/evenly matched (aka entertaining) fights on a card?

I pay (paid) £41 per month for Sky Sports (mainly for boxing) and decided to cancel it today as the standard of matchmaking is so poor - particularly the main event and co-features. With the money these promoters are getting from Sky they are not really putting on enough good fights and shows.

Boxing, like any sport, is supposed to entertain - where is the entertainment in watching a hot prospect easily bundle over an 'opponent' with as much resistance as Robert Green's goalkeeping?

My suggestion for better matchmaking is that Sky use their clout to force rival promoters to get their prospects and fighters to fight one another.

[Glyn Leach]

"My suggestion for better matchmaking is that Sky use their clout to force rival promoters to get their prospects and fighters to fight one another.

A good idea in theory but Sky don't have anyone behind the scenes with the knowledge to make the matches, there is no Lou DiBella type, like there used to be at HBO. TV networks these days do not have specialist head of sports, they are people who might have been head of gardening the previous week — generics, much like the presenters of most sky sports shows, jacks of all trades, masters of none. It's the same behind the scenes.

I take your point and agree with it — TV could foster a more competitive matchmaking situation, but only in theory. It's all about the 'could' and TV can't as things stand. There just isn't the knowledge there to make the matches in reality, so TV prefers to give dates to promoters and wash its hands of the problem, so they can then say "well it's not our fault, is it?" and blame the promoters. Sad but true.

[saturday_kid]

In Maloney's defence whilst I'm not a big fan of this Friday's bill (i'm not really massively into the heavyweights) I can't really remember in recent times a poor bill from them, they've also been putting on some good undercard 6 rounders involving both British fighters (and not your typical journeyman prospect fight) - Mutley Vs Woolford, Fewkes Vs Haywood spring to mind - that haven't been shown on TV. Also they seem the best at interacting with the fans, through their facebook, youtube etc.

[FtmPress]

Random thoughts:
(1) I probably go to about 12 shows a year and usually go to the trouble of going to Frank's shows if I can as they are some of the best
(2) It would be a mistake to reduce the number of fighters on bills. The sport relies on having a regular supply of guys making their way in the sport - not all of whom will ever make it to champion level.
(3) Don't knock the quality of oppos too much - its a nightmare at the moment to get people - lot of people are out of training
(4) Don't knock all Latvians - lets not forget Alex Spitko
(5) I have to say I really appreciate at least 2 decent undercard scraps - less than that and I do feel that the show was probably crap
(6) I think we really need to shift more tickets (not easy at the moment BTW). I agree that the problem is attracting back those who used to attend shows because they loved them and were not just attending to support their mates
(7) Show's would be greatly improved if anybody who started chanting "There's only one ....." got tied to the corner posts
(8) I understand why some fights on a bill are going to be crap - just let me know in the bar when its over and I can emerge blinking into the light of Goresbrook Leisure Centre
(9) Frank - just one appeal - for the travelling fans there is only one town where you put on shows which is irredeemably sh*t and that's Wigan - please save me from EVER going there again

(9) Frank - just one appeal - for the travelling fans there is only one town where you put on shows which is irredeemably sh*t and that's Wigan - please save me from EVER going there again[/quote]but night life there is ok stop of at jumping jacks, next time you are there.

[Jeff Thomas]

Part of the problem is that most undercard fighters sell tickets to friends and family. They fight, the seats are filled, but when the fight is over many people bugger off to the bar. It must grate when a promoter puts on a decent undercard and people don't bother showing up for it, or do show up for it but shrug their shoulders and say, "I don't know his name, I'm off to the bar." As Macho implies, undercards work well when the fans have cross-loyalties.

Tickets, especially pricey ones, are often snapped up by casual fans or fans who only follow one specific fighter. This, coupled with the inability of UK fans to actually drink and enjoy an event without having to be treated like kids, means that seats are left empty on many occasions while the fans refuel after the hard graft of watching a single contest.

I don't drink but I hear that when you go to a UK show the bars are absolutely mental and under-staffed so people write off 2-3 fights simply to buy an over-priced beer, or five. Throw in the fact that water is taken away from people entering the venue and you have a situation where people have to leave their seats, and once out of them face a long period away from the main hall.

How many people come back into an arena, realise they've missed a few fights and moan that, "I only went out for a sodding drink of Pepsi!"

Press seats often sit empty until the main event(s) are scheduled to come on so if the guys who are, supposedly, obsessed with sport can't be arsed with the undercards then who are we to judge the blokes who are only there for one fight and a night out?

The waxing and waning of the crowd is the biggest problem at the moment, tickets do tend to sell but keeping people in their seats is not always easy, even if you've got a great undercard, as it requires people to concentrate for long periods without having a chance to refuel.

German promotions tend to maintain a good crowd as they can actually be trusted to bring drinks to their seats without having a total meltdown and attempting to stab fellow fans with bottles/cans/shredded up plastic cups.

Keeping people at the shows would be a big step forward. If you have these fans that follow only one boxer then where is their incentive to stay? They can't get a beer- they don't enderstand whats going on because they don't follow boxing- and although it feels great when their pals won, unless they are one of the very few that makes it to title contention eventually that fighter gets beat and they feel empty changed. How about holding back a little of the purses and awarding 'prospect of the night', 'opponent of the night', 'knockout of the night', 'Fight of the night' etc for monetry bonus'

Chances are fans would consider sticking around and seeing if their man had wo anything, by getting them to stay they might actually start to take notice of the other boxers on the card. Thus starting to build the relationship between fighter and fan. This same relationship that saw me buy Eminems album on itunes this morning and not download it for free from somewhere else.

Another quick point- internet purchase is still something that not many people are comfortable with! How hard would it be for a promoter to place their prospects highlights for free on itunes- full fights for £1.99- for me itunes is the one place I trust to purchase from- but no one seems to take advantage of it? Suddenly if people have the thriller between 'Ferguson and big Larry' on their iphone - they show there pals-

'hey come look at this fight' while their having a brew at work or whatever.

Boxing is a tough sell but the grea thing about it is not one of us cvould live without boxing. Its addictive viewing- and the more people that get hooked the more money will be generated and the better the matces that can be made. Boxings not dying by a long way- we're even looking at getting it back into schools up here.

[saturday_kid]

Part of the problem is that most undercard fighters sell tickets to friends and family. They fight, the seats are filled, but when the fight is over many people bugger off to the bar. It must grate when a promoter puts on a decent undercard and people don't bother showing up for it, or do show up for it but shrug their shoulders and say, "I don't know his name, I'm off to the bar." As Macho implies, undercards work well when the fans have cross-loyalties.

Tickets, especially pricey ones, are often snapped up by casual fans or fans who only follow one specific fighter. This, coupled with the inability of UK fans to actually drink and enjoy an event without having to be treated like kids, means that seats are left empty on many occasions while the fans refuel after the hard graft of watching a single contest.

I don't drink but I hear that when you go to a UK show the bars are absolutely mental and under-staffed so people write off 2-3 fights simply to buy an over-priced beer, or five. Throw in the fact that water is taken away from people entering the venue and you have a situation where people have to leave their seats, and once out of them face a long period away from the main hall.

How many people come back into an arena, realise they've missed a few fights and moan that, "I only went out for a sodding drink of Pepsi!"

Press seats often sit empty until the main event(s) are scheduled to come on so if the guys who are, supposedly, obsessed with sport can't be arsed with the undercards then who are we to judge the blokes who are only there for one fight and a night out?

The waxing and waning of the crowd is the biggest problem at the moment, tickets do tend to sell but keeping people in their seats is not always easy, even if you've got a great undercard, as it requires people to concentrate for long periods without having a chance to refuel.

German promotions tend to maintain a good crowd as they can actually be trusted to bring drinks to their seats without having a total meltdown and attempting to stab fellow fans with bottles/cans/shredded up plastic cups.

Keeping people at the shows would be a big step forward. If you have these fans that follow only one boxer then where is their incentive to stay? They can't get a beer- they don't enderstand whats going on because they don't follow boxing- and although it feels great when their pals won, unless they are one of the very few that makes it to title contention eventually that fighter gets beat and they feel empty changed. How about holding back a little of the purses and awarding 'prospect of the night', 'opponent of the night', 'knockout of the night', 'Fight of the night' etc for monetry bonus'

Chances are fans would consider sticking around and seeing if their man had wo anything, by getting them to stay they might actually start to take notice of the other boxers on the card. Thus starting to build the relationship between fighter and fan. This same relationship that saw me buy Eminems album on itunes this morning and not download it for free from somewhere else.

Another quick point- internet purchase is still something that not many people are comfortable with! How hard would it be for a promoter to place their prospects highlights for free on itunes- full fights for £1.99- for me itunes is the one place I trust to purchase from- but no one seems to take advantage of it? Suddenly if people have the thriller between 'Ferguson and big Larry' on their iphone - they show there pals-

'hey come look at this fight' while their having a brew at work or whatever.

Boxing is a tough sell but the grea thing about it is not one of us cvould live without boxing. Its addictive viewing- and the more people that get hooked the more money will be generated and the better the matces that can be made. Boxings not dying by a long way- we're even looking at getting it back into schools up here.

Good ideas there Jeff. Especially the fights on itunes idea, I'd love that if that were to happen!

[Jeff Thomas]

Part of the problem is that most undercard fighters sell tickets to friends and family. They fight, the seats are filled, but when the fight is over many people bugger off to the bar. It must grate when a promoter puts on a decent undercard and people don't bother showing up for it, or do show up for it but shrug their shoulders and say, "I don't know his name, I'm off to the bar." As Macho implies, undercards work well when the fans have cross-loyalties.

Tickets, especially pricey ones, are often snapped up by casual fans or fans who only follow one specific fighter. This, coupled with the inability of UK fans to actually drink and enjoy an event without having to be treated like kids, means that seats are left empty on many occasions while the fans refuel after the hard graft of watching a single contest.

I don't drink but I hear that when you go to a UK show the bars are absolutely mental and under-staffed so people write off 2-3 fights simply to buy an over-priced beer, or five. Throw in the fact that water is taken away from people entering the venue and you have a situation where people have to leave their seats, and once out of them face a long period away from the main hall.

How many people come back into an arena, realise they've missed a few fights and moan that, "I only went out for a sodding drink of Pepsi!"

Press seats often sit empty until the main event(s) are scheduled to come on so if the guys who are, supposedly, obsessed with sport can't be arsed with the undercards then who are we to judge the blokes who are only there for one fight and a night out?

The waxing and waning of the crowd is the biggest problem at the moment, tickets do tend to sell but keeping people in their seats is not always easy, even if you've got a great undercard, as it requires people to concentrate for long periods without having a chance to refuel.

German promotions tend to maintain a good crowd as they can actually be trusted to bring drinks to their seats without having a total meltdown and attempting to stab fellow fans with bottles/cans/shredded up plastic cups.

Keeping people at the shows would be a big step forward. If you have these fans that follow only one boxer then where is their incentive to stay? They can't get a beer- they don't enderstand whats going on because they don't follow boxing- and although it feels great when their pals won, unless they are one of the very few that makes it to title contention eventually that fighter gets beat and they feel empty changed. How about holding back a little of the purses and awarding 'prospect of the night', 'opponent of the night', 'knockout of the night', 'Fight of the night' etc for monetry bonus'

Chances are fans would consider sticking around and seeing if their man had wo anything, by getting them to stay they might actually start to take notice of the other boxers on the card. Thus starting to build the relationship between fighter and fan. This same relationship that saw me buy Eminems album on itunes this morning and not download it for free from somewhere else.

Another quick point- internet purchase is still something that not many people are comfortable with! How hard would it be for a promoter to place their prospects highlights for free on itunes- full fights for £1.99- for me itunes is the one place I trust to purchase from- but no one seems to take advantage of it? Suddenly if people have the thriller between 'Ferguson and big Larry' on their iphone - they show there pals-

'hey come look at this fight' while their having a brew at work or whatever.

Boxing is a tough sell but the grea thing about it is not one of us cvould live without boxing. Its addictive viewing- and the more people that get hooked the more money will be generated and the better the matces that can be made. Boxings not dying by a long way- we're even looking at getting it back into schools up here.

Good ideas there Jeff. Especially the fights on itunes idea, I'd love that if that were to happen!

ha ha cheers mate, i'm thinking of setting up a copyright on some of these idea's pal. Great thread though and just shows what can be achieved by a bit of constructive communication.

[Jeff Thomas]

Random thoughts:
((9) Frank - just one appeal - for the travelling fans there is only one town where you put on shows which is irredeemably sh*t and that's Wigan - please save me from EVER going there again

Wigan is shit, and many of the women their are rather erm rough would be a good way to put it, however just down the road is the beautiful Las Vegas of the north aka Blackpool- you should have gone there pal.

[jimb0d]

I went to prizefighter and khan in newcastle. But regardless of whether attending a live show or not I like to see 3 'name' fights at an event im watching. At least then I can try and maintain interest amongst my freinds who only know haye/harrison/khan etc

[leforge]

Random thoughts:
((9) Frank - just one appeal - for the travelling fans there is only one town where you put on shows which is irredeemably sh*t and that's Wigan - please save me from EVER going there again

Wigan is poop, and many of the women their are rather erm rough would be a good way to put it, however just down the road is the beautiful Las Vegas of the north aka Blackpool- you should have gone there pal.

Las Vegas of the North

[gasman]

"My suggestion for better matchmaking is that Sky use their clout to force rival promoters to get their prospects and fighters to fight one another.

A good idea in theory but Sky don't have anyone behind the scenes with the knowledge to make the matches, there is no Lou DiBella type, like there used to be at HBO. TV networks these days do not have specialist head of sports, they are people who might have been head of gardening the previous week — generics, much like the presenters of most sky sports shows, jacks of all trades, masters of none. It's the same behind the scenes.

I take your point and agree with it — TV could foster a more competitive matchmaking situation, but only in theory. It's all about the 'could' and TV can't as things stand. There just isn't the knowledge there to make the matches in reality, so TV prefers to give dates to promoters and wash its hands of the problem, so they can then say "well it's not our fault, is it?" and blame the promoters. Sad but true.

Sky have gifted lucrative contracts to promoters such as Warren, Maloney, Hearn (who is the pick of the bunch imo), Hatton etc, so it might not be a bad idea for them to adopt the HBO model and get in a trade person who can provide this knowledge. It is the only realistic chance that we will see a change in this as I have little confidence that the current or next generation of promoters will do so. How else are we going to see more competitive match making?

[Jeff Thomas]

Random thoughts:
((9) Frank - just one appeal - for the travelling fans there is only one town where you put on shows which is irredeemably sh*t and that's Wigan - please save me from EVER going there again

Wigan is poop, and many of the women their are rather erm rough would be a good way to put it, however just down the road is the beautiful Las Vegas of the north aka Blackpool- you should have gone there pal.

Las Vegas of the North

Listen mate, don't take the piss- have you not seen the piers?

[Jeff Thomas]

"My suggestion for better matchmaking is that Sky use their clout to force rival promoters to get their prospects and fighters to fight one another.

A good idea in theory but Sky don't have anyone behind the scenes with the knowledge to make the matches, there is no Lou DiBella type, like there used to be at HBO. TV networks these days do not have specialist head of sports, they are people who might have been head of gardening the previous week — generics, much like the presenters of most sky sports shows, jacks of all trades, masters of none. It's the same behind the scenes.

I take your point and agree with it — TV could foster a more competitive matchmaking situation, but only in theory. It's all about the 'could' and TV can't as things stand. There just isn't the knowledge there to make the matches in reality, so TV prefers to give dates to promoters and wash its hands of the problem, so they can then say "well it's not our fault, is it?" and blame the promoters. Sad but true.

Sky have gifted lucrative contracts to promoters such as Warren, Maloney, Hearn (who is the pick of the bunch imo), Hatton etc, so it might not be a bad idea for them to adopt the HBO model and get in a trade person who can provide this knowledge. It is the only realistic chance that we will see a change in this as I have little confidence that the current or next generation of promoters will do so. How else are we going to see more competitive match making?

Its all about relevance- you can be the most exciting fighter in the world but if people don't relate to them- if the fan doesn't form that bond then they are irrelevant and won't capture the imagination, sell tickets or have a memorable career. Prime example is Wayne Alexander. This guy was the definition of must watch- every fight he had ended explosively, or implosively. But not enough people cared- he was a british, european and wbu world champ but no-one seemed to notice and hidden away on undercards he was chinned twice by guys nowhere near his level and faded away. Wayne is a cracking bloke and should have being making his name as a consistant british champion but it seems that his promoters were always focussing on tomorrow rather then today.

[leforge]

Who dillian whtye and Campbell fighting on Friday ?

[Jeff Thomas]

Jeff, I like some of your ideas but don't be so paranoid about buying online. It is buy and large safer than offline shopping. iTunes isn't the only safe option and if you shop around you may well be surprised at the potential for savings elsewhere. Apple have just got their marketing squared away, they are not the best in the business at anything they do.

Thanks mate, I love Apple, so I'm a bit biased- those guys are tremendous at what they do- I did a case study on them for my degree and their marketing idea's and products are so well thought out. I'm also well impressed with the UFC- for such a horrible sport to watch they don't half know how to create interest.

What other sites do you use for purchase? E-bay I presume? Any others?

[Jeff Thomas]

Good points, Jeff, but I can't get into watching fights online, I prefer to see them on my TV so I tend to download them, pop them onto a USB and then watch in comfort.

Thanks mate. I watched a few films on my lap top and iphone whilst on holiday- they were fine to watch. People have preferences but I was suprised at how watchable they were. Regardless I think of Itunes as only a platform to give fans access to them- imagine having a huge archive of fights that you can access and relive. I'd be skint in a week. I've got 10,000 fights on DVD but I still love the old domestic stuff. Ingle-Jones replay i'll have some of that. Once you download something of itunes its there for you to watch on demand- stick it on a usb and watch it on TV at your leisure

[Jeff Thomas]

Jeff, I like some of your ideas but don't be so paranoid about buying online. It is buy and large safer than offline shopping. iTunes isn't the only safe option and if you shop around you may well be surprised at the potential for savings elsewhere. Apple have just got their marketing squared away, they are not the best in the business at anything they do.

Thanks mate, I love Apple, so I'm a bit biased- those guys are tremendous at what they do- I did a case study on them for my degree and their marketing idea's and products are so well thought out. I'm also well impressed with the UFC- for such a horrible sport to watch they don't half know how to create interest.

What other sites do you use for purchase? E-bay I presume? Any others?

I don't use ebay to be honest. No particular reason why.

I have used hundreds of different online outlets and, to date, I have not been rumped by any of them. I typically do a google search and then try a site on the 2nd, 3rd or even 8th, 9th page of the search results. Those on the first page get 95% of the business and this can make them a little complacent and, as they know they will get most of the traffic anyway, more expensive. I have consistently found lower ranking sites to be cheaper and just as timely with delivery.

[Jeff Thomas]

Good points, Jeff, but I can't get into watching fights online, I prefer to see them on my TV so I tend to download them, pop them onto a USB and then watch in comfort.

Thanks mate. I watched a few films on my lap top and iphone whilst on holiday- they were fine to watch. People have preferences but I was suprised at how watchable they were. Regardless I think of Itunes as only a platform to give fans access to them- imagine having a huge archive of fights that you can access and relive. I'd be skint in a week. I've got 10,000 fights on DVD but I still love the old domestic stuff. Ingle-Jones replay i'll have some of that. Once you download something of itunes its there for you to watch on demand- stick it on a usb and watch it on TV at your leisure

Sorry to go OT here but are you still one of the big men at ESB forums? I appear to have been banned. Granted, the colour scheme makes it look like a gay cottaging site but is that any call for them to behave like fannies?

ha ha big men? If that means do i type a lot then yes. I was banned for ages too. Who were you on there?

[Jeff Thomas]

Sorry to go OT here but are you still one of the big men at ESB forums? I appear to have been banned. Granted, the colour scheme makes it look like a gay cottaging site but is that any call for them to behave like fannies?

ha ha big men? If that means do i type a lot then yes. I was banned for ages too. Who were you on there?

PM me can't remember who you were

I'm a master of disguises. Put it this way, my avatar was Mark Breland, say no more, sar, say no more.

[JimJim2009]

Frank I've attended your shows every year since Lewis vs Botha ten years ago.

Five years ago I stopped attended the other Frank's shows on principle and I've convinced five other fans to join me in that, it stemmed from an incident at a show in Huddersfield that I wrote to him about, his office manager sent a pxxs poor letter back and since then I've voted with my feet. I dare say I've attended more of your shows as a result :)

I hope you can put Sykes on next in Dewsbury or Batley - Batley Bulldogs rugby stadium is keen to stage it, and I think they've been calling your office about it over the past couple of weeks. I just did some filming at the ground and the staff there were buzzing with the possibility. I hope it comes off, the atmosphere would be brilliant and I know of a dozen locals who'll be there. If you can't put it on the rugby ground and the sports centres are too small, try the Frontier nightclub, they've had boxing shows there in the past and its the biggest indoor venue locally.

Keep up the good work Frank and credit to you for coming on here to talk to the fans