WORST DECISIONS AT THE 2010 JO'S

[Boxing411]

BOJADO v. ALMOUSA, QUARTER FINAL
NACLERIO v. FOSTER, SEMI FINAL
NACLERIO v. RODRIGUEZ, FINAL
VEGA v. CALLABRO, SEMI FINAL
BUSH v. DELAROSA, SEMI FINAL
McCARTHY v. WATSON, FINAL

I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ADD, RING 1 HAD THE WORST JUDGES OF THE TOURNAMENT

[brooklynkiller]

i agree with that and i think that the worst robbery was ethier mccarthy and watson or NACLERIO v. FOSTER in the SEMI FINAL both horrible decesions i thought but thanks for posting this is shows that bad decesions just shouldnt be over looked there should be something done about them

[boxmel]

I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ADD, RING 1 HAD THE WORST JUDGES OF THE TOURNAMENT

Just for the heck of it - please state unemotional and unbiased reasons for your statement. And please also state your judging . qualifications and experience before doing so. And please be sure to let everyone know that you only had one point of view from the bleachers.

[Boxing411]

Unfortunately Mel, both you and I are on the same level. The only difference is, you have many more years than I which leads me to believe, its about time for you to retire. However, your husband is an excellent and fair ref. Sorry, it is only my opinion.

And "just for the heck of it" why don't you watch the above mentioned fights on youtube, maybe you can "SEE" clearly how these young men were robbed of their victory.

[brooklynkiller]

you go boxing 411 im with u 110 percent all men deserve a fair shake

[boxmel]

Unfortunately Mel, both you and I are on the same level.

And what is this supposed to mean?

The only difference is, you have many more years than I which leads me to believe, its about time for you to retire.

So, in your opinion, anyone with more than, say, 20 years should retire?

However, your husband is an excellent and fair ref. Sorry, it is only my opinion.

He's also an excellent and fair judge.

And "just for the heck of it" why don't you watch the above mentioned fights on youtube, maybe you can "SEE" clearly how these young men were robbed of their victory.

Please remember that any video, YouTube or otherwise, only shows one point of view.

[COACH J]

Mel are you saying that bad decisions dont happen? YES or NO?....

[coachingGOLD]

Both Mel and her husband are great at what they do for this sport of Amatuer Boxing. Dont forget they volunteer at this. I boxed out of Southern California in the 80's and there were times I lost and Mel was a judge. My family and crowd would tell me I won but deep inside I know I didn't give my all and I needed to do more. Sure there will always be close fights so we will always have opinions that are different.

I say to all that you just train harder and smarter and you will get your wins. Its easy to get in the blame business and thats not help your fighter at all. If your good then do something about it so the fight isnt that close. Putting the blame on other wont get you to the top. I learn that as a fighter and coach. We are getting GOLD very soon.

[jjvboxer]

I dont believe that Mel is saying there are not bad decisions. We would be naive to believe that corruption does not exist in every aspect of sports and beyond. What I think she is saying is that most of the time, it is probably a fair decision and she was asking what factors were considered in determining why the decision was wrong. As far as retiring, since Freddie Roach has been in boxing for over 40 years, Floyd Mayweather Sr., and a few others, they should ALL retire because they have been in boxing for more than 20 years? I dont think so. Roach turns down great fighters on a regular basis. His plate is overflowing. Why do they all want to be trained by a trainer who should have retired 20 years ago?

[Dennis]

The national JO's used the ESS so the videos will only show one viewing angle. Remember for a blow to be scored 3 or more judges have to press the button within a second. This also assumes that the 1 second window is not closed early by another 1 second window being opened. With the clicker system, you can say that from the videos viewpoint a judge on that side should have scored it a certain way. If it was a split decision, that might be what happened. With ESS, it is a lot harder to say. You have to imagine what the judges on the 3 other sides of the ring were seeing at the same time. Did their view of the blow get blocked by one of the boxers, by the referee, or by a camerman (it happens)? The judges are also much closer to the ring and can often see that a punch misses or is blocked where it is hard to tell with the video.

Close bouts always mean that there are going to be people who thought their boxer won even though the decision went the other way.

[boxmel]

A "bad decision" is only in the eyes of the beholder. Yes, there are times I thought the other boxer won - when I was on a 4-1 or a 3-2. But do I subscribe to the tenet that us judges actually decide to willfully and with malice aforethought "rob" a boxer? Nope.

Great response, Dennis. Wish more had your understanding. There were quite a few close decisions at the JOs - several Level 1 and Level 2 tiebreakers (very close, within 1 point) averaged scores).

[teasy24]

Bad decisions happen all the time. Most of the time people disagree on the fights outcome, therefore making it not a bad decision but a controversial decision. The problem I have with going on and on about a bad decision is, especailly in the JO, people put it into the young boxers head and then they start thinking every close fight is a bad decision and they were "robbed" once again. This is bad in several ways everybody knows that.

[DCAmateurBoxing]

The national JO's used the ESS so the videos will only show one viewing angle. Remember for a blow to be scored 3 or more judges have to press the button within a second. This also assumes that the 1 second window is not closed early by another 1 second window being opened. With the clicker system, you can say that from the videos viewpoint a judge on that side should have scored it a certain way. If it was a split decision, that might be what happened. With ESS, it is a lot harder to say. You have to imagine what the judges on the 3 other sides of the ring were seeing at the same time. Did their view of the blow get blocked by one of the boxers, by the referee, or by a camerman (it happens)? The judges are also much closer to the ring and can often see that a punch misses or is blocked where it is hard to tell with the video.

Close bouts always mean that there are going to be people who thought their boxer won even though the decision went the other way.

You also have to understand what punches are more likely to be scored by judges. A lot of punches thrown doesn't equally scoring points during paper scoring. That's even more true during ESS. Unfortunately, a lot of boxers and coaches have to learn this the hard way. I brought two of our boxers down to the JOs just so they could see for themselves what scores and what doesn't. I hope it helps them understand ESS scoring. IMO, boxer's need to answer the question: Do you want to inflict punishment, wow the crowd, make your supporters happy, prove that you're tough OR do you want to win the bout??? I think sometimes people get one confused with the other. If a boxers or coach say "they" were robbed, that means that "they" won't change anything that "they" did. I'm pretty sure the judges aren't going to change either, so the results will continue to be the same at these national ESS tournaments for those boxers that aren't willing to learn how to score. IMO, you have to adjust your boxing based on where you are and what kind of scoring is being done. Ringside, Silvers Gloves and JOs are all different animals. Not saying they should be, but it is what it is and if you don't admit that--it's going to be a harder road to winning. Just my two cents.

[texasboxcap]

i agree with boxing 411 i believe all boxers deserve a fair shake and i believe ur being biast boxing mel by saying theres never a flaw in the system and i believe the fight s above are highway robberies not even close

[DCAmateurBoxing]

i agree with boxing 411 i believe all boxers deserve a fair shake and i believe ur being biast boxing mel by saying theres never a flaw in the system and i believe the fight s above are highway robberies not even close

But how can you cheat with ESS? You can see the raw scores and if a judge clicked 80 time but all the other judges weren't even at 30, it becomes obvious someone is out of line. You can't possibly time your score to coincide with the other judges. With paper, you can score the bout normally and then add a few pts here or there. You can't add a pt w/ ESS without making it look obvious. Unless you saying that all judges conspired together, it doesn't make sense. If my boxer loses on ESS, we will just have to look at what we can improve. If you look at the above bouts and call them highway robberies, I don't agree at all. Look at the scores!!! They were all close bouts that were ALL decided in the last rounds. All the boxers knew it was close after the 2nd and the all worked hard but apparently came up just short. Anyone who says different is just because they are close to one of the boxers. I try to be objected, but looking at the scores, I doubt if it was anything but just close competitive boxing.

BOJADO v. ALMOUSA, QUARTER FINAL --->Bojado wins 3-2
NACLERIO v. FOSTER, SEMI FINAL --->Nacerio wins 5-4 (Level 1 Tie Breaker after 2-2)
NACLERIO v. RODRIGUEZ, FINAL --->Nacerio wins 7-6(Level 1 Tie Breaker after 3-3)
VEGA v. CALLABRO, SEMI FINAL--->Vega wins 4-3
BUSH v. DELAROSA, SEMI FINAL---> Delarosa wins 5-2
McCARTHY v. WATSON, FINAL--->Watson wins 8-6

[TimmySoCal]

when i fight and recieve a loss when i seriously thought i won. i dont complain about it until after i see the tape. i watch it from my opponents point of view and realize how close it actually was.

dont hate the judges, hate the judgement.

[07champ]

The fact is this, as long as we have sports we will have controversy especially in our sport. With that being said we do have unfair decisions. I have seen many situations where there have been close fights that either boxer really knew if they won the bout or not however when the fight is over the boxer that did not get the nod will claim that he was cheated or robbed when it was clear that it was a close fight.. Then I have seen fights at the local (mainly), regional, and national level where fighters were completely robbed and the fighter they lost against would admit it. Many of us see this. So for Mel to act as if it doesn't happen is just ridiculous. I guess you can say Roy Jones wasn't cheated by the bribed judges in the Olympics to right? Well guess what he was and it is a FACT because it later came to the media. Its BOXING!! Its the sport that we love so much, but know it can be corrupt at times even at the amateur level. Mainly because its ran by people and people aren't perfect some are far from it. I have seen fighters from other regions go challenge fighters in another LBC just for the competition and get cheated so bad that his opponents family and friends reached out. So in so many words unfair decisions DO happen but we need to recognize what is a close fight or a highway robbery so that we as a boxing whole can crack down on it.

[boxmel]

So for Mel to act as if it doesn't happen is just ridiculous.

Having been a computer tech for 10 years, as well as a judge for 23 years, i can honestly say that, at the national level with computer scoring, I have NEVER seen or participated in a concerted effort to "rob" any athlete. I have NEVER seen or participated in a decision to favor one boxer over another.

I guess you can say Roy Jones wasn't cheated by the bribed judges in the Olympics to right? Well guess what he was and it is a FACT because it later came to the media.

And the Roy Jones robbery is the very reason why we now have computer scoring.

[jjvboxer]

But you have to admit Mel, that corruption DOES exist in boxing, pro and amateur. Just because you have not been privy to a concerted effort to rob someone does not mean it does not happen. It is very simple really. In the computer scoring that was supposed to erraticate the "Roy Jones" type corruption, three judges can avoid pressing the button when the "other" fighter scores a clean blow, and all three can in a "concerted" effort press the button within the one second window when "their" fighter thows a punch even though it is not a clean punch. Although it is rare, it most definitely can and has happened. There is too much money involved, and therefore, corruption does play a part in boxing. It is unfortunately, human nature.

[caballitor27]

i got some many call about this event and some one told me you have to look at it on a different angle of the fight but i look at it and it dont make no sences ricardo caraballo vs ariel vega 4 - 3 , i n
know im not the best in scoring but no way this fight was 4- 3 ,when you got a fight hugging ,holding ,come on whatz going on with boxing. and many other to close to call ,its a coincidence that all these bout was close one point .so when is the next big show so i can take vaseline so it wont hurt that much.

[boxmel]

Although it is rare, it most definitely can and has happened.

And I do agree with you and, in the US, I will say it is a rarity. There is not rampant corruption and robbing in spite of what losing coaches and boxers want to think.

i

t dont make no sences ricardo caraballo vs ariel vega 4 - 3 , i n
know im not the best in scoring but no way this fight was 4- 3 ,when you got a fight hugging ,holding ,come on whatz going on with boxing.

Why doesn't it make sense, in your opinion? And hugging, holding, wrestling and waiting were definite reasons that many of the accepted scores were as low as a 4-3.

[caballitor27]

Although it is rare, it most definitely can and has happened.

And I do agree with you and, in the US, I will say it is a rarity. There is not rampant corruption and robbing in spite of what losing coaches and boxers want to think.

i

t dont make no sences ricardo caraballo vs ariel vega 4 - 3 , i n
know im not the best in scoring but no way this fight was 4- 3 ,when you got a fight hugging ,holding ,come on whatz going on with boxing.

Why doesn't it make sense, in your opinion? And hugging, holding, wrestling and waiting were definite reasons that many of the accepted scores were as low as a 4-3.

yea you right..........but look at the fight and then tell me you dont win fight with all the above,i score clear punches from the blue corner and no clear punchs from the red corner ,lots of warmning and no points ,i see now the ref. was so close to take a point but it was to close ,i seen 3 angle of this fight and its nowhere close like they say .thank you to the people that put the video on from diffente angle where you can see what really went on at this event 4 or 5 bout with the same problem come on give me a break ,who are you kidding . hey but this is usaboxing for you.thanks for the feel back mel ,nothing personal with you im just had it with usaboxing and are new generation.

[boxmel]

,

i score clear punches from the blue corner and no clear punchs from the red corner ,

Please remember that there are five judges at ringside. If a ref is in front of you, you can't see any punches. If a boxer has his/her back to you, you can't see any punches. You can't score a punch while the puncher is committing a foul (holding is the biggest, as is slapping and hitting on the back). Hopefully, three out of the five judges WILL see a legal effective punch land but it doesn't always happen.

lots of warmning and no points

I think you mean "cautions" and not "warnings." Three cautions for the same foul is a warning. More than one caution for different fouls does not translate into a warning.

Maybe you should become an official - you could be part of the solution that way.

[bwadd21]

I get tired of coaches compliaining about the decisions! Yes there are times i feel like one of my kids may have lost a fight that they shouldn't have, but there have been times one of my kids won a fight they probably shouldn't have. I feel like its my job as coach to teach these kids lessons, if they lose, lets figure out what to work on and try not to lose next time. We can't have our kids pointing the blame at someone else everytime something doesn't go their way.

[coachingGOLD]

Amen!