Jack Dempsey V Rocky Marciano

Bricks · Post by **Bricks** » 25 Jun 2010, 06:16

.............

gambler49 · Post by **gambler49** » 25 Jun 2010, 07:42

A GREAT fight! However I can't see Rocky losing it. This is a match up I've gone over in my head a long time ago. Dempsey will not be able to maintain the necesery attack to take Rocky out. If Ezzard Charles had Dempseys power he might of stopped Rocky. If Dempsey had EC stamina then he could beat Rocky.
Maybe a Mike Tyson could get Rocky out early wiv his speed of assault. Maybe Joe Frazier coulda beat Rocky wiv his relentness attack. But in my book Dempsey would hav to get Rocky on a bad day to win. I see Rocky punishing Jacks body till he can hardly stand up. Tho im certain the majority are gonna go for Dempsey.
Rocky wins TKO round 12

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 25 Jun 2010, 12:26

If the odds were roughly even, put me down for a big bet on Dempsey. Better two-fisted power-puncher, longer reach, faster hands & more accurate punches, a broader skill-set, loads of heart, chin & endurance (perhaps not as great as Marciano in these areas, but competitive), & he was quicker out of the blocks, with a superb killer instinct.

Dempsey stops Marciano in seven savage, competitive rounds. Dempsey down once, Marciano down twice. Bruising, swelling & cuts of a horrendous nature --- the hallmarks of Dempsey's swifter, whirlwind assault at close-quarters --- catch the doctor's attention, pulling Marciano out.

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 25 Jun 2010, 12:44

I'd say Marciano stops Demspey by the mid-rounds. Dempsey was overall more skilled but he'd be playing a dangerous game with Rocky by attacking him straight on.

Bricks · Post by **Bricks** » 25 Jun 2010, 12:58

gambler49 wrote:A GREAT fight! However I can't see Rocky losing it. This is a match up I've gone over in my head a long time ago. Dempsey will not be able to maintain the necesery attack to take Rocky out. If Ezzard Charles had Dempseys power he might of stopped Rocky. If Dempsey had EC stamina then he could beat Rocky.
Maybe a Mike Tyson could get Rocky out early wiv his speed of assault. Maybe Joe Frazier coulda beat Rocky wiv his relentness attack. But in my book Dempsey would hav to get Rocky on a bad day to win. I see Rocky punishing Jacks body till he can hardly stand up. Tho im certain the majority are gonna go for Dempsey.
Rocky wins TKO round 12

I'd love to have lived in Rockys era and experience the anticipation surrounding his fights.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 25 Jun 2010, 13:00

Diamond WEAPON wrote:I'd say Marciano stops Demspey by the mid-rounds. Dempsey was overall more skilled but he'd be playing a dangerous game with Rocky by attacking him straight on.

Would he? Dempsey was quicker & rangier --- he would land first, second & third. Could Marciano survive? He is thought of as this indestructible figure, but if Dempsey, a quicker, snappier man from the opening bell, started landing hard & clean early, as I suspect he would, don't be surprised if the hammer drops...

yancey · Post by **yancey** » 25 Jun 2010, 13:45

Goodnight, Irene wrote:
Diamond WEAPON wrote:I'd say Marciano stops Demspey by the mid-rounds. Dempsey was overall more skilled but he'd be playing a dangerous game with Rocky by attacking him straight on.
Would he? Dempsey was quicker & rangier --- he would land first, second & third. Could Marciano survive? He is thought of as this indestructible figure, but if Dempsey, a quicker, snappier man from the opening bell, started landing hard & clean early, as I suspect he would, don't be surprised if the hammer drops...

I suspect GI is right here, but I wouldn't be betting much.

Man, if only to see fights like this one.

Panzerfaust · Post by **Panzerfaust** » 25 Jun 2010, 14:18

I could see Dempsey getting of to a fast start and stopping Rocky 'round the 5-6th round, but i could also see Rocky wearing Jack out .... I really dont know

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 25 Jun 2010, 19:03

Goodnight, Irene wrote:
Diamond WEAPON wrote:I'd say Marciano stops Demspey by the mid-rounds. Dempsey was overall more skilled but he'd be playing a dangerous game with Rocky by attacking him straight on.
Would he? Dempsey was quicker & rangier --- he would land first, second & third. Could Marciano survive? He is thought of as this indestructible figure, but if Dempsey, a quicker, snappier man from the opening bell, started landing hard & clean early, as I suspect he would, don't be surprised if the hammer drops...

Sure he was quicker, but I think Marciano would eat his shots and bust him up worse with his own, asI consider The Rock to be one of the heaviest-handed fighters ever. Dempsey though, I doubt would back off even as RM is rocking his world though simply because he was there to be hit, but I think Rock would eventually drop him for the full count with his face resembling a half-eaten peach and after each has been dropped a few times.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 25 Jun 2010, 20:50

Okay, there you go. I guess we just have a core disagreeance on the damage Dempsey can do to Marciano. I see Dempsey as more punishing than you do, I suppose.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 25 Jun 2010, 21:32

Marciano never lost.....so he can never lose in any imagined scenario. Case closed.

Now the fact that he feasted on the bones of former greats, and never truly faced a great challenge should not give anyone pause to consider any other possibility.

The big "O" tells you all you will ever need to know.

When it comes to Marciano, resistance is futile.

Once the big "0" is recognized, you must abandon all hope and illusions of possible victory by any fighter without the big round talisman.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 25 Jun 2010, 22:08

I would love to sit ringside... heck in my lounge room! and watch this one.

I would be a fan of both men as I viewed it and impartially enjoy the hard
work on each side.

Its hard to really predict an outcome. Both are no doubt going to be in
EXCELLENT condition, both have the aggression to wobble one anothers
knees with rock fisted blows, both have the heart and character to hit
the other back when hit themselves, both have solid chins, pride and
a tool box full of weapons forged in battle, for such a war.

I would like to slide to Marciano should I be forced to bet. But I think a
strong, intense man like Dempsey would be a real tough dancer partner
for Marciano who always seemed best crushing the weak or pursuing
hit and runners. Dempsey however tended to be a little more at home (from
what I have seen) when facing a man that dug the trenches in for a
static war of attrition.

I am going to play it safe and suggest a decision....there will be alot of clinching,
dirty boxing on the inside, fouls, short inside blows to the body, hip and cup,
and alot of pain on both men after the fights over.

Let me give Marciano the benefit of this victory...he fought all those who were
available to him, never was stopped, never was beat. Dempsey does not have this
in his favour with his loss to Flynn, his colour preferences and his 3 yrs of
celibacy from the ring.

Good fight as always when you throw these two into the mix.

Diamond WEAPON · Post by **Diamond WEAPON** » 25 Jun 2010, 22:18

BoxBuzz wrote:Marciano never lost.....so he can never lose in any imagined scenario. Case closed.

Now the fact that he feasted on the bones of former greats, and never truly faced a great challenge should not give anyone pause to consider any other possibility.

The big "O" tells you all you will ever need to know.

When it comes to Marciano, resistance is futile.

Once the big "0" is recognized, you must abandon all hope and illusions of possible victory by any fighter without the big round talisman.

Seriously, we should have an all-time tourney with Marciano, Joe Calzaghe, Sven Ottke, and Ricardo Lopez

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 25 Jun 2010, 23:16

Robinson wrote:I would love to sit ringside... heck in my lounge room! and watch this one.

I would be a fan of both men as I viewed it and impartially enjoy the hard
work on each side.

Its hard to really predict an outcome. Both are no doubt going to be in
EXCELLENT condition, both have the aggression to wobble one anothers
knees with rock fisted blows, both have the heart and character to hit
the other back when hit themselves, both have solid chins, pride and
a tool box full of weapons forged in battle, for such a war.

I would like to slide to Marciano should I be forced to bet. But I think a
strong, intense man like Dempsey would be a real tough dancer partner
for Marciano who always seemed best crushing the weak or pursuing
hit and runners. Dempsey however tended to be a little more at home (from
what I have seen) when facing a man that dug the trenches in for a
static war of attrition.

I am going to play it safe and suggest a decision....there will be alot of clinching,
dirty boxing on the inside, fouls, short inside blows to the body, hip and cup,
and alot of pain on both men after the fights over.

Let me give Marciano the benefit of this victory...he fought all those who were
available to him, never was stopped, never was beat. Dempsey does not have this
in his favour with his loss to Flynn, his colour preferences and his 3 yrs of
celibacy from the ring.

Good fight as always when you throw these two into the mix.

I think the least safe bet is a decision, myself.

Robinson · Post by **Robinson** » 26 Jun 2010, 02:13

I dont think that their is any safe bet in such a fight.

BUT... I do feel both men could be standing at the
end of it. Though Could, Would and Should are such
big words and asks.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 26 Jun 2010, 02:23

Robinson wrote:I dont think that their is any safe bet in such a fight.

BUT... I do feel both men could be standing at the
end of it. Though Could, Would and Should are such
big words and asks.

Fair point.

SaadOffTheDeck · Post by **SaadOffTheDeck** » 26 Jun 2010, 02:26

Count me as the Dempsey by decision. No doubt it would be violent and I can see them both going down. But for some reason I see a decision at the end of it.

Edit: Cheers Robinson!

Brutu · Post by **Brutu** » 26 Jun 2010, 10:24

I think this was the final part of the Murray Woolner's SUPERFIGHTS on the radio in 1967.
All those radio recordings are on the bonus DVD of SUPERFIGHT,Marciano vrs Ali.

yancey · Post by **yancey** » 26 Jun 2010, 12:15

Deleted.

Goodnight, Irene · Post by **Goodnight, Irene** » 26 Jun 2010, 12:19

It's my position that Marciano's, '0' does more harm across the board to his legacy than good with retrospective observers. Because the word is out on how limited --- both in terms of size & skills --- he was perceived to be, & because the era was depleted during his time, I think he is left somewhat under-rated, with this too-heavy assumption all the competition was either garbage or washed-up, that being the only explanation for such a capped fighter never losing.

Marciano was better than that, & deserves a better memory. He had more to do with the, '0' than I usually see him being credited with. This much, & one thing more --- let no one scoff at the difficulty involved in building a nine-year career without a single defeat, & I say that virtually regardless of any opposition. It is extremely taxing to put yourself in the position to win over & over & over, without a major slip-up, year-in, year-out. Unsurprisingly, Marciano was one of the best-prepped fighters around. Most fighters with few or no losses are.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 26 Jun 2010, 15:25

Who would Sven Ottke be without the "O"?

Sven Ttke.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 27 Jun 2010, 16:12

Now the fact that he feasted on the bones of former greats, and never truly faced a great challenge should not give anyone pause to consider any other possibility.

And what kind of challenge did Dempsey face? Gibbons, Dying Miske, Brennan(who all Lost to Harry Greb, whom Dempsey didn't fight) Or Luis Firpo, Fred Fulton(who were dominated by Harry Wills, another whom Dempsey didn't fight)?

BTW,

Here are the Ring Magazine ratings of Archie Moore, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Joe Louis when Rocky fought them.

Joe Louis- # 2 by Ring Magazine

Jersey Joe Walcott I- Heavyweight Champion of the World

Jersey Joe Walcott II- # 1 by Ring Magazine

Ezzard Charles I- # 1 by Ring Magazine

Ezzard Charles II- # 1 by Ring Magazine

Archie Moore- # 1 by Ring Magazine

Looks like these "bones" of "former" greats were kicking the shit out of all the young contenders in the division.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 27 Jun 2010, 17:09

I'll take Dempsey's comp over Marcianos anyday of the week.

Fulton was a monster who destroyed he whole division save the two ATGs at the top (Dempsey and Wills)

A 'dying' Miske? Talk about exaggeration. Miske already had Bright's disease but it had not reached a serious stage yet when he fought Dempsey in 1920 (unless a 'dying' man can beat Gibbons, Brennan, Weinert, Renault etc., which Miske did post-1920) He also lost to Dempsey earlier in 1918. I'll rate the 1918 Miske over the Charles Marciano beat, who was WELL past his best.

You also have ATG Levinsky, Morris, Willard, Brennan, a past-it but still dangerous Gunboat Smith, Meehan, Carpentier, and Jack Sharkey.

Rocky's best victories are a past-it but still dangerous Walcott, and Moore. Great wins, but after that you have the rapidly declining Charles and then Rex Layne, shot Louis, Lastarza.

Dempsey's comp overall was far stronger.

SaadOffTheDeck · Post by **SaadOffTheDeck** » 27 Jun 2010, 19:32

I'd take that past it Charles over Brennan, Morris, Smith, Meehan & willard in the blink of an eye. But I think overall that Jack probably has a slight edge in competition. Neither of them rank anywhere near the top as far as opponents go.

yancey · Post by **yancey** » 27 Jun 2010, 22:01

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I'd take that past it Charles over Brennan, Morris, Smith, Meehan & willard in the blink of an eye. But I think overall that Jack probably has a slight edge in competition. Neither of them rank anywhere near the top as far as opponents go.

Slight edge?

In the year before he won the title, Marciano fought three times in a row against fighters with LOSING records.

One of them had a 3-13 record.

In late 1950, less than 24 months before he became champ, he fought a gentleman who had lost 56 fights! (61 wins)

The fight went the full 10 rounds, btw.